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Budget Porros: Helios Naturesport / Bushnell Legacy / Bushnell Natureview


SpaceBass

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Helios Naturesport Plus 8x40 WA porro

http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/helios-naturesport-plus-8-x-40-wa-binoculars.html

 

Bushnell Legacy 8x42 porro (120842)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bushnell-120842-Legacy-WP-Binoculars/dp/B00189CT42

 

Bushnell 8x42 Natureview porro (224208)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bushnell-224208-Nature-8x42mm-Binoculars/dp/B00AU6GSE6/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

 

Looking at bang for buck 8x42's or 8x40's for night time astronomy, and can find all three online for under £100. They all have FOV above 8 degrees and the Helios isn't waterproof but is the cheapest. I have a narrow face and tend to have most binos at their smallest IPD setting (which can still be borderline), so this is one factor to consider.  Have age-related presbyopia (+1.75) and also a small prescripton for distance, but I prefer not to wear glasses when using binoculars.

BTW, I'm pretty much decided on 42mm instead of 50mm, due to the lighter weight, the fact that budget 50's are reportedly often stepped down, and that my 50+ year old eyes probably won't take advantage of higher exit pupils (my specsavers eyetest says 5.9mm but not sure how much that can be relied on for accuracy).

The aim is to use these rurally just outside London, so not that dark but not too much light pollution either, especially if facing away from London.  Could go for an x10 for more 'punch' but, seeing as I'm planning on acquiring a large x16 or x20 bino in the future, I might be better off going for an x8 (better FOV than x10) in this 42mm objective format. That's the (hopefully not too fickle) reasoning anyway. I will be using a tripod regardless (too shakey even at x8) 

Anyhow, I guess there's very little between these three optically?   Any other suggestions welcome.. :happy11:

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The binos you've chosen represent a broad budget  for budget binos. The Naturesport Plus' seem to have a few happy owners here. In that price range Steve Tonkin on his BinocularSky site rates the Opticron Adventurer 10x50.

http://www.binocularsky.com/reviews/Opticron_Adventurer_10x50.pdf

Its not an 8x42 but if you are mounting your binos anyway then a 10x might serve you better.

At the other end of things (slightly above the price of the others)  the Opticron iMagics are good. I have just bought the 10x42s which are very good optically and though well built are surprisingly light in the hands. Again Steve rates them well n his review here:

http://www.binocularsky.com/reviews/Opticron_Imagic_TGA_8x42.pdf

Oddly the 8 and 10x42s are more expensive than the iMagic 10x50s at FLO because the latter are on offer.

By the way, I have no connection with either Opticron or Steve!

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1 hour ago, Alfian said:

The binos you've chosen represent a broad budget  for budget binos. The Naturesport Plus' seem to have a few happy owners here. In that price range Steve Tonkin on his BinocularSky site rates the Opticron Adventurer 10x50.

http://www.binocularsky.com/reviews/Opticron_Adventurer_10x50.pdf

Its not an 8x42 but if you are mounting your binos anyway then a 10x might serve you better.

At the other end of things (slightly above the price of the others)  the Opticron iMagics are good. I have just bought the 10x42s which are very good optically and though well built are surprisingly light in the hands. Again Steve rates them well n his review here:

http://www.binocularsky.com/reviews/Opticron_Imagic_TGA_8x42.pdf

Oddly the 8 and 10x42s are more expensive than the iMagic 10x50s at FLO because the latter are on offer.

By the way, I have no connection with either Opticron or Steve!

definately check out the binocular sky links . Lot of usefull advice there

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thanks for all the replies, much appreciated!

 

Quote

At the other end of things (slightly above the price of the others)  the Opticron iMagics are good. I have just bought the 10x42s which are very good optically and though well built are surprisingly light in the hands. Again Steve rates them well n his review

Nice, I wasn't aware of that range.  Only issue might be the 18mm closest distance between eyecups of the 8x42 (assuming similar for 10x42 & 10x50), which I think will be too far apart for me.  In contrast, two binos on my shortlist for a big bino in the future, Lunt 16x70 and Opticron 16x80 WP Observation, have their shortest distance at 9mm & 12mm respectively

I'm veering towards the Helios Naturesport, pending any further suggestions, which are most welcome.  Would ideally like to know their minimum IPD (not stated by Helios) and size of eyecups to work out their shortest distance.  Maybe the shop can help there.

Cheers!

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just wondering if anyone's got any opinions on Bushnell 10x42 natureview (roofs)?  

http://www.jessops.com/online.store/categories/products/bushnell/10x42-natureview-binoculars-96839/show.html#descriptionTab

Have found some positive feedback on a few older threads here.

 

Edit: wtf, ordered these at £75 delivered.  They'll come in handy for terrestrial viewing and as a back up for astronomy use (low weight is a plus).  Going to save up for bigger bins, as per above post.  Thanks for the advice

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21 hours ago, SpaceBass said:

just wondering if anyone's got any opinions on Bushnell 10x42 natureview (roofs)?  

http://www.jessops.com/online.store/categories/products/bushnell/10x42-natureview-binoculars-96839/show.html#descriptionTab

Have found some positive feedback on a few older threads here.

 

Edit: wtf, ordered these at £75 delivered.  They'll come in handy for terrestrial viewing and as a back up for astronomy use (low weight is a plus).  Going to save up for bigger bins, as per above post.  Thanks for the advice

Huh interesting, how come you got those in the end? Roofs without phase coatings are much worse than porro for astronomy, even if they are well made otherwise. I have a good pair of 8x42 roof without phase coatings, which are amazing during the day, but I do wish they could do as well as my much cheaper porro set at night so I wouldn't have to keep 2 pairs of binos...

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2 hours ago, ecuador said:

Huh interesting, how come you got those in the end? Roofs without phase coatings are much worse than porro for astronomy, even if they are well made otherwise. I have a good pair of 8x42 roof without phase coatings, which are amazing during the day, but I do wish they could do as well as my much cheaper porro set at night so I wouldn't have to keep 2 pairs of binos...

Hmm, I didn't realise that, especially after reading a few positive posts about them on this site.  No biggie, I could always return it unopened to Jessops and get a porro then.  Thanks for the heads up.

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13 minutes ago, SpaceBass said:

Hmm, I didn't realise that, especially after reading a few positive posts about them on this site.  No biggie, I could always return it unopened to Jessops and get a porro then.  Thanks for the heads up.

You can read up details on binocularsky.com. It explains how a roof prism must be much more expensive than a porro to have the same qualities and in addition, if it doesn't have phase coating it will always have a contrast deficit. I would certainly prefer roof if I did not have budget constraints, much nicer shape/size, but the ones that are equivalent to the £50-£100 porros cost around £200. The reason I have a set very similar to those Bushnells is that while it sold for £75 normally, I found a closeout at £30, so they are my most convenient daytime set ;) 

So, I like them, I would give the a good review, but next to a modest porro set you can see the difference at night - it is physically impossible for them to match the contrast without phase coatings (not to mention the requirement for much more precise figuring of the prisms).

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I was aware that cheap porros were better than cheap roofs, but the rrp was about £150 and they were described as multi-coated. Now I know not sufficiently coated, so thanks again!

Speaking of expensive roofs and nice coatings, I recently had a few hours with Bushnell Legend M series 8x42's (link below). Looking down the road at night in the built up area around my house, seeing the gleaming cars and shop fronts in the distance, was breathtaking! Had a quick look at the full moon & stars at the same time, which were also really nice. But the improvement over cheaper bins I've used (such as Kowa YF 8x30) seemed a bit underwhelming (just brief test with not dark adapted eyes, so I'm probably being unfair)

However, perhaps you ideally need an x10 or more to start to punch through a moderate amount of light pollution, regardless of optics and coating? 

The budget 8x42's, I asked for feedback on in this thread, were mainly intended for ten minutes away in a darker spot. No doubt those M series 8x42 would have been more impressive there too. :happy11:

http://bushnell.com/all-products/binoculars/legend-e-l-m-series/m-series-8x-42mm

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15 hours ago, ecuador said:

You can read up details on binocularsky.com. It explains how a roof prism must be much more expensive than a porro to have the same qualities and in addition, if it doesn't have phase coating it will always have a contrast deficit.

Had another quick look on binocularsky and, confusingly, they do recommend two roofs in their £100 category.  

Back to porros, I've  just noticed that uttings are selling Nikon Action EX 8x40 for £116 delivered (about my maximum budget), so that's another one to add to the mix. So I guess it's between that Nikon, Bushnell Legacy 8x42 and Helio Natursport 8x40.  According to some posts on Cloudy Skies, the Nikon's have a slight edge over the Legacy's for night time viewing, and the Legacy's the same for daytime.

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I have the Nikon Action Action EX 12x50 and am finding them superb they have a very bright image . The exit pupil is 4.2mm but the 8x40 will be bigger at 5mm and should be a tad brighter as well

You divde Objective by the magnification ie 40/8 = 5 to get exit pupil

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On 1/13/2017 at 14:04, SpaceBass said:

Any other suggestions welcome.. :happy11:

Try our sponsor......    https://www.thebinocularshop.com/helios-naturesport-plus-8x40-wa-binoculars.html

These are my favoured optics, grab them first for everything, especially low powered astronomy.
I've had mine for quite a while now, great price, great optics, don't hang around!
 

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2 hours ago, Charic said:

Try our sponsor......    https://www.thebinocularshop.com/helios-naturesport-plus-8x40-wa-binoculars.html

These are my favoured optics, grab them first for everything, especially low powered astronomy.
I've had mine for quite a while now, great price, great optics, don't hang around!
 

good price.  Do they actually weigh around 750 grams instead of the stated 690?

 

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Sorry for the late answer ( busy day!) In my hand with strap only, no case or objective/eyepiece caps, and according to my  Hanson digital scales! their reading 755g.

Strange, I've checked  several pages myself and their stated weight is 690g? Unless my  scales are wrong?

The UK GBP £1 coin weighs in at 9.5g,  of the four coins here, their  showing me 9g each! I can get it to read 10, depending on placement touch, but its not showing me any 0.5g difference, and no mention in the instruction leaflet , although some web sites suggest my scales weigh in 0.5g increments. I'll accept them for what they are!

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Thanks for weighing them.  I've seen a couple of other posts that mention them being around 750g, so looks like that's what they indeed do weigh.  Tut tut, Helios.  Anyhow, will likely order this week. Cheers, 

 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Charic said:

Helios 8x40....they have gone up a tenner in less than a week!  unless it's  an error!  their now £59?

Hehe, had them in my basket from the night before and was expecting to pay £49, but it had gone up to £79. Asked if they could slip it through but they said the offer was over and they could only lower it to £59.  Nice of them to do that and looking forward to receiving them tomorrow.

Out of interest, how do you rate the 222 and have you compared it to the pistol grip head that comes with the amazon basics/ Ravelli tripods?

 

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Received the Helios Naturesport 8x40's from the Binocular Shop. Great service and thumbs up for being properly cushioned on all six sides inside the much larger shipping box.  Nice, bright image with 5mm exit pupil.  

If my measuring is correct, the minimum IPD seems to be about 1mm more than my eyes (58mm / 57mm). The image seems okay but if I increase IPD just a fraction, then the beginnings of a dark streak becomes visible in the middle.  Is there any concern to being right on the borderline?

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Thats a shame, as £49 is a no brainer for these optics, I'm sure I paid the same during one of their Summer sales!
As for the 222's, I just wanted a ball head trigger grip and was toying with the idea  for one on a  3 Legged Thing tripod.

The 222  became available, looks like its hardly ever been used, and like many good items, once discontinued, their  difficult to find, however this one mounted to my 055/Pro3 tripod is the perfect combination for my heaviest of binoculars and my DSLR gear. 

As for the IPD, I have quite a lot of movement somewhere between 56-66 on the scale provided, and any  higher is where I start to lose the image.  About 63 seems about right for my needs. I dont see any darkness or streaking within the range I mention.

The only pair of binoculars I have experienced any issues with IPD, more so the general fit, they did not fit the face? was with the Nikon Extreme 10x50s, The new owner loves them!

As to being borderline with your issue, that's a personal decision only you can  make, and the sooner the better, if you need to return them? It could just be that the Helios are not for you or your requirements, and only after testing will you find or appreciate any issues that may arise. Maybe try another family member to see how they fare with them? 
 

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1 hour ago, Charic said:

As to being borderline with your issue, that's a personal decision only you can  make, and the sooner the better, if you need to return them? It could just be that the Helios are not for you or your requirements, and only after testing will you find or appreciate any issues that may arise

Well, the image appears essentially good. There's just the nagging feeling that it's starting to be affected in the centre, even though you cannot see any clear break up.  I could just be imagining though.

It would have been useful to know the IPD range before purchase but Helios don't appear to state it anywhere online.

 

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Have been  outside, Brrrrrrrr its cold! but sitting here now, looking from my office window  I can see both  Venus AND Mars  within my 8° field of view.
Orion  just rising over MY horizon, , M31 is dead above my head with the  Pleiades  and a few others on show.
 I  really wan't to set up the scope, but put off by the street lighting, it seems worse these days, but has never really changed, its just that it bothers me more these days,  and Venus  appears to have a halo due to the conditions ( clear again as I write!).
I may go out later with  binoculars  and tripod, take the car, find somewhere darker. The patch behind the house is not so dark now, with all the vegetation gone from the surrounding wooded area.
Oh well, at least two Planets this season so far?

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7 hours ago, Charic said:

 

Have been  outside, Brrrrrrrr its cold! but sitting here now, looking from my office window  I can see both  Venus AND Mars  within my 8° field of view.
Orion  just rising over MY horizon, , M31 is dead above my head with the  Pleiades  and a few others on show.
 I  really wan't to set up the scope, but put off by the street lighting, it seems worse these days, but has never really changed, its just that it bothers me more these days,  and Venus  appears to have a halo due to the conditions ( clear again as I write!).
I may go out later with  binoculars  and tripod, take the car, find somewhere darker. The patch behind the house is not so dark now, with all the vegetation gone from the surrounding wooded area.
Oh well, at least two Planets this season so far?

Ditto for me (unsurprisingly) with Venus and Mars just within FOV, but I opted to view from my bathroom window instead of braving the -1C. :icon_biggrin:  Jupiter becomes visible in the East about midnight or so around here.  I need to venture about 15 mins by bicycle to get darker skies.

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.....back in myself?
Jupiter was low to my East, a little shaky through the 15x70s without proper support. M45 and Orion below the tree line,  M31 just visible to the west (tree line again). Ursa major in my Zenith, difficult to observe when standing and looking straight up, crooks the neck!
My local site, the pitch! was brighter than the last visit, due to the tree foliage missing. the grass was snapping under my feet due to the sharp frost!

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M31 tends to get lost in orange haze (west London) but I'm hoping to see it at a new location shortly. 

Uranus has been visible, as has Saturn, possibly not with binos though :happy11:

http://earthsky.org/tonight/moon-and-uranus-in-front-of-pisces

http://earthsky.org/tonight/moon-and-saturn-before-sunrise-january-24

 

 

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