Tips for viewing galaxies?

[popeye85]

What are people's top tips for looking at galaxies? 

I know that even under dark skies they just appear as 'faint fuzzies' and that averted vision is often the key just to see them at times but just wondering how everyone else gets the best out of them?

P.S- due to a syndrome called 'marrige', constantly getting a bigger scope can not be treated as a feasible answer ??

[John]

My tips are:

- darkest skies you can get

- as much aperture as you can get

- low power to find / frame, more power to tease out the fainter ones

- keep your eyes dark adapted as far as possible

- start with some relatively easy ones to "get your eye in" then move onto more challenging ones

- tap the scope if you think a target is in the field of view - this can make it pop into view

- most will be small faint smudges even with a decent size scope but the thrill is to have found and directly observed something very faint and very far away

 

[Davey-T]

Many / most ? of them aren't much to look at but it's nice to have a list and work your way through it even if you're not really sure you've actually seen it 

Darker the sky the better

Dave

[Charic]

On 02/01/2017 at 19:28, popeye85 said:

I know that even under dark skies they just appear as 'faint fuzzies'

...M31 Andromeda appears as a faint fuzzy  tiny spot  from my back garden.
Away from home its a different kettle of fish? ,  any  place where I  cant see any man made light pollution,  M31 fills my viewfinder, so for me, a better site and low power ( I use the 32mm Panaview) and patience, taking my time  to observe.
We often  say  a darker sky is whats required,  but its just the man-made light pollution which is of interest to us, get rid of that, and Moon light, and if like my skies, the Stars are so numerous and bright, that its difficult to locate the likes of Casseopiea?
I`m not sure I have seen any other Galaxies from my garden, with the scope, due to excessive interference from street lighting but away from home,  looking at Ursa Major, I  have choices as to which galaxy to look at?

[D4N]

Ursa Major and Leo are great constellations for galaxies.

I love it when I can get more than one DSO in the fov at a time, that gives you more appreciation of the difference in the shapes of the fuzzies.

Averted vision helps as does roving your eye around the fov but avoiding your blind spot as you won't spot anything with that

Your blind spot is off centre, to the left of the centre of your fov for your left eye and to the right of centre for your right eye.

[Paul73]

Like Dan says ^^^^. Also, a quick wobble of the scope sometimes helps pop those elusive ones into view. Blinking also helps (not just because your eyeballs dry up if you stare too hard). A relaxed eye always sees more.

Paul

[ronin]

For galaxy viewing the biggest item is as you say a dark sky.

Somewhere one person took an image of M31, first at their normal observing location, the second at a dark location. Both exposures were taken on the same camera and identical settings - that was the purpose of it. The difference was massive.

The first was a sort of standard exposure, the second showed all M31, the arms and the dark lanes. Initially you think that the second was a set of say 10 exposures stacked and well processed. The poster guaranteed they were identical single exposures using the same exposure parameters.

Agreed a camera operates differently to an eyeball but the image comparisons were notable.

[Grapefruitmoon]

On 1/2/2017 at 19:46, Charic said:

...M31 Andromeda appears as a faint fuzzy  tiny spot  from my back garden.
Away from home its a different kettle of fish? ,  any  place where I  cant see any man made light pollution,  M31 fills my viewfinder, so for me, a better site and low power ( I use the 32mm Panaview) and patience, taking my time  to observe.
We often  say  a darker sky is whats required,  but its just the manmade light pollution which is of interest to us, get rid of that, and Moon light, and if like my skies, the Stars are so numerous and bright, that its difficault to locate the likes of Casseopiea?
I`m not sure I have seen any other Galaxies from my garden, with the scope, due to excessive interference from street lighting but away from home,  looking at Ursa Major, I  have choices as to which galaxy to look at?

Have you actually seen the M31 Andromeda with the naked eye,that is my absolute number 1 target of mine that I have yet to achieve,Everybody seems to tell me thats its possible with Dark Skies and I have travelled to very dark areas around Doncaster (about 9 miles east from central Doncaster) in a very Rural Area and still couldnt make it out,I know EXACTLY where it is supposed to be located in the Nightsky, and the area from what I gather is about a level 4, I think on the Bortle Dark Sky Scale,so I was really dissapoiinted not to be able to still see it, even Orion was a huge disapointment,it just makes me wonder how far I have to travel to find a DARK sky.I envy you,that you can actually see it unaided.its such a frustration not being able to see it.I am new to Astronomy and am really starting to find out the problems of Light Pollution and getting good cloudless conditions,I have a Skywatcher Heritage 130p but have rarely had the chance to use it since Xmas,which is when I got it.

 

 

 

 

[Charic]

5 hours ago, Grapefruitmoon said:

Have you actually seen the M31 Andromeda with the naked eye

Yes, I can detect M31 with my eyes from a darker site, optics provide more detail.
The first time Mrs Charic viewed M31 she sighed "is that it?"......I tried to explain how the conditions were affected and the distances involved, but not interested, she expected more, and quite frankly, so did I from reading reports here at the SGL, with folk using a similar scope, so for now, its the best I can get from light polluted garden.

Not a mile away ( as the Crow flies ) its a different story, even the rear footie pitch when the vegetation is back on the trees, allows me to detect the patch (from recent memory) but when I first viewed M31 properly away from home, I decided my eyepiece (25mm) was not wide enough to see all the Stars, the Starguider at 60° was still not enough, so I invested in the Skywatcher Panaview with its 70° which allows me to see more! however all is not well up here in Scotland?

It has been the mildest Winter I can remember and with Spring fast approaching leading to Summer, as my scope heads to hibernation, due to its almost constant twilight up here during Summer, the scope becomes almost useless ( just my opinion ) because when the Stars of Ursa Major are just barely visible against the twilight sky, I just feel the scope will  be a waste of time, preferring the speed and efficiency of managing with binoculars. This year though , I will consider viewing the Moon a little more often and possibly any Planets that may be passing.

Under the right conditions your 130 should offer something worth looking at with your longest focal length EP.
I use the star- Shedar of Cassiopeia as a guide to point me to the Star, Mirach.
A line between these two Stars is my 12 oclock- 6 o'clock position. Then come away from Mirach in a 1 o'clock direction and you should detect M31. Other folk work directly from Andromeda constellation, but each to their own, I favour the lower right hand side of the 'W' that is Cassiopeia, to point me to Mirach, then back a tad to M31.

M31 is a large target, very large? however being so diffuse, it makes observation difficult for some, but low power with a decent field of view will help. I'm sure the 130 will work. I had the Celestron 127EQ which was a Jones-Bird design? but I struggled with the smallness of the images, especially with my favourite, Jupiter, and the fact I was constantly having to re-configure some parameter and to have to 'reset' everything when viewing my next target (the issues with an EQ setup) I don't think the Skywatcher 130 has the fixed lens at the base of the focuser tube, correct me if I'm wrong!
For me, the upgrade to 8" was worthwhile, and I had even considered a larger scope, with better optics and wider  fields of view, but these eyepieces are probably wasted on my present setup and for the foreseeable future, no new scope, so I'm re-assessing my eyepiece collection just now, but I'm digressing. A light pollution free night and looking in the right direction should get you a view of M31. Try using  low powered binoculars, better with both eyes!

And as for observing times, three this Year and probably 10 or less last Year. I have good skies, and better if I drive out, its the effort thats lacking, along with the size of the scope! but it really needs four wheels and a driver to go anywhere, anywhere better than the garden.

[BGazing]

not many of them are showing much detail. at present, try blackeye galaxy from a dark location at about 100-130x in your dob.

[Grapefruitmoon]

4 hours ago, Charic said:

Yes, I can detect M31 with my eyes from a darker site, optics provide more detail.
The first time Mrs Charic viewed M31 she sighed "is that it?"......I tried to explain how the conditions were affected and the distances involved, but not interested, she expected more, and quite frankly, so did I from reading reports here at the SGL, with folk using a similar scope, so for now, its the best I can get from light polluted garden.

Not a mile away ( as the Crow flies ) its a different story, even the rear footie pitch when the vegetation is back on the trees, allows me to detect the patch (from recent memory) but when I first viewed M31 properly away from home, I decided my eyepiece (25mm) was not wide enough to see all the Stars, the Starguider at 60° was still not enough, so I invested in the Skywatcher Panaview with its 70° which allows me to see more! however all is not well up here in Scotland?

It has been the mildest Winter I can remember and with Spring fast approaching leading to Summer, as my scope heads to hibernation, due to its almost constant twilight up here during Summer, the scope becomes almost useless ( just my opinion ) because when the Stars of Ursa Major are just barely visible against the twilight sky, I just feel the scope will  be a waste of time, preferring the speed and efficiency of managing with binoculars. This year though , I will consider viewing the Moon a little more often and possibly any Planets that may be passing.

Under the right conditions your 130 should offer something worth looking at with your longest focal length EP.
I use the star- Shedar of Cassiopeia as a guide to point me to the Star, Mirach.
A line between these two Stars is my 12 oclock- 6 o'clock position. Then come away from Mirach in a 1 o'clock direction and you should detect M31. Other folk work directly from Andromeda constellation, but each to their own, I favour the lower right hand side of the 'W' that is Cassiopeia, to point me to Mirach, then back a tad to M31.

M31 is a large target, very large? however being so diffuse, it makes observation difficult for some, but low power with a decent field of view will help. I'm sure the 130 will work. I had the Celestron 127EQ which was a Jones-Bird design? but I struggled with the smallness of the images, especially with my favourite, Jupiter, and the fact I was constantly having to re-configure some parameter and to have to 'reset' everything when viewing my next target (the issues with an EQ setup) I don't think the Skywatcher 130 has the fixed lens at the base of the focuser tube, correct me if I'm wrong!
For me, the upgrade to 8" was worthwhile, and I had even considered a larger scope, with better optics and wider  fields of view, but these eyepieces are probably wasted on my present setup and for the foreseeable future, no new scope, so I'm re-assessing my eyepiece collection just now, but I'm digressing. A light pollution free night and looking in the right direction should get you a view of M31. Try using  low powered binoculars, better with both eyes!

And as for observing times, three this Year and probably 10 or less last Year. I have good skies, and better if I drive out, its the effort thats lacking, along with the size of the scope! but it really needs four wheels and a driver to go anywhere, anywhere better than the garden.

Wow Mr Charic,you seriously live in a beautifull location up there,and I have just been on Stellarium to try and get a perspective viewpoint from where you are,I really cant believe how light it is in the middle of june at midnight up there,thats just crazy !,I now understand your point in saying you will be packing the Telescope away for the season,waste of time it looks like.As to your point about seeing M31 in my 130p,you will be right I think in my having little trouble in finding it,its just that I want to see it FIRST just with my own eyes in a dark enough Sky,the challenge is finding that sky location first.If I can see that unaided then I have truly found my observing spot for serious Telescope viewing,this is my challenge at the moment,I realise that it will be very faint,and I do know EXACTLY where to look,its just that I cannot see it,my wife neither,its so damn frustrating,its really great to be chatting to somebody who is obviously into the Nightsky,your the only person I know at the moment with the interest I have,I am thinking about joining the local Astronomy club for more like minded folks,Thanks for the help,hope to chat again soon.Regards

[rockystar]

On 3/17/2017 at 12:54, Grapefruitmoon said:

I really cant believe how light it is in the middle of june at midnight up there,thats just crazy !

I love these charts: http://clearoutside.com/annual_darkness/57.59/-3.30; at least I get Nautical Darkness...

[Moonshane]

Try and sketch the star field and smudge. Even if it's very rough it will allow you to confirm what you were seeing later.

 

 

[billyharris72]

The following work for me:

1) I only tend to bother with galaxies that are reasonably high above the horizon (over 45 degrees or so).

2) Also I only tend to go for galaxies around the new moon, on a clear night with no haze to scatter light, and after 11pm or so (ligh pollution decreased slightly)

3) A light pollution filter sometimes seems to work a bit, sometimes not; experiment.

4) Exit pupil and magnification are important. My best e.p. my 200mm f6 Dob is an 18mm ex-cel (so an exit pupil of 3mm for me).

5) Averted vision and scope jogging definitely help. With borderline spots leaving the object and attempting to come back to i can help.

6) I wear a t-shirt upside down over my head. Makes me look like an utter idiot but it's dark so nobody can see. Makes a great hood for eliminating stray light.

Next steps for me will be to extend the tube and add some flocking to eliminate stray light and increase contrast.

Billy.

[Peco4321]

7 minutes ago, billyharris72 said:

 

6) I wear a t-shirt upside down over my head. Makes me look like an utter idiot but it's dark so nobody can see. Makes a great hood for eliminating stray light.

 

Love this idea. Might try it tonight as I know for sure the neighbors lights will be on as it is forecast to be clear. 

[LukeSkywatcher]

Cant say ive seen many galaxies. No reason really.......just dont often aim for them. Ive seen Andromeda, the Leo trio and the Black Eye galaxy (all with a 5" scope, from a darkish back garden a few yrs ago). Dark skies and averted vision help (as has been stated already). The beauty of them to most is knowing their size and how far the light has travelled to hit your eye(s).

[Paul73]

For big targets like M31 & M33, try with binoculars first. Often the scope seems to look straight through them! Once your are confident of position and size, it is a lot easier in the scope. M33 I spent many nights looking for M33 with my 10" Dob, but it was Adair of 10x50 binoculars that bagged the blighter!

M31 is just naked eye (with my glasses on) from my back garden. The faintest stars that I can see with just the specs are about mag 5.3ish.

Keep trying

Paul

[Nova2000]

On 03/01/2017 at 01:16, Charic said:

...M31 Andromeda appears as a faint fuzzy  tiny spot  from my back garden.
Away from home its a different kettle of fish? ,  any  place where I  cant see any man made light pollution,  M31 fills my viewfinder, so for me, a better site and low power ( I use the 32mm Panaview) and patience, taking my time  to observe.
We often  say  a darker sky is whats required,  but its just the man-made light pollution which is of interest to us, get rid of that, and Moon light, and if like my skies, the Stars are so numerous and bright, that its difficult to locate the likes of Casseopiea?
I`m not sure I have seen any other Galaxies from my garden, with the scope, due to excessive interference from street lighting but away from home,  looking at Ursa Major, I  have choices as to which galaxy to look at?

Charic, your situation is the same as mine! I can barely see m31 from my place. 

[Knighty2112]

 Not sure it's been mentioned in this thread at all (sorry not read it all!), but it helps especially in light polluted areas especially to put a dark cloth/blanket over your head and the eyepiece of the scope to block out external lights (street lamps, security lights, inconsiderate neighbors etc). Don't do it too often myself, but when I do it does make a big difference, especially when trying to tease out a dim galaxy when you 'know' you are in the right area but can't just see it.  

[Moonshane]

23 hours ago, Peco4321 said:

6) I wear a t-shirt upside down over my head. Makes me look like an utter idiot but it's dark so nobody can see. Makes a great hood for eliminating stray light.

Funnily enough I have just ordered a BBQ cover as an end cap for my big dob. It would probably work well for this too. It has a silvery inside so I could use that way round (rather than black) for solar too.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01N1LNQBV/ref=pe_1909131_77697121_tnp_email_TE_AMZLdp_1 

 

[BGazing]

23 hours ago, billyharris72 said:

6) I wear a t-shirt upside down over my head. Makes me look like an utter idiot but it's dark so nobody can see. Makes a great hood for eliminating stray light.

I use my old matriculation gown. 

[Knighty2112]

23 hours ago, billyharris72 said:

6) I wear a t-shirt upside down over my head. Makes me look like an utter idiot but it's dark so nobody can see. Makes a great hood for eliminating stray light.

Great idea for a warm summer night observing. Not so good on a winter, autumn or spring time evening/night!  

[Charic]

On 3/17/2017 at 12:54, Grapefruitmoon said:

.........your the only person.........

Kind words, though  although everyone here will have interest,  not everyone will or need to reply, but don't stop asking questions. that's why were here, not only that this is my local club too!
I do have a local club that's quite well known in these parts, but I'm not able to use their viewing site without another member being present, which sort of restricts my use, due to health and safety.

[Tigaroo]

I have  light polluted skies, primary school on my doorstep lit up like a Christmas tree ,  and neighbours upstairs and porch lights all around , but can still spot M31 , Orion Nebula , and the beehive cluster all naked eye averted vision ...she boasts ? 

Hopefully hunting for the ursa major galaxies later on! New targets 

[Cjg]

Great question and some good (if unusual) suggestions.

Mine would be once you have a darkish site, try sitting at the eyepiece if you can rather than standing. It makes a difference.

A dark site is good, we are luckier than most in Norfolk, as Seething Observatory has pretty good skies, if you can find your local Astro soc and have an experienced observer help, that's a bonus too.

Good luck.

Chris