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bill54

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Hi, regarding your search for a 12x50, I  recently spent quite some time chewing over the purchase of a 12x60 binocular and eventually having decided  on  the Pentax S 12x50WP  in the end decided to do  something different which is too long a story to go into.

Under £100 I think  something like the Celestron Skymaster 12x60 which though  seen as giving good value for money,  will be prone to being easily knocked out of adjustment. I had some Visionary 12x60 which are similar and though OK for terrestrial views were not good for astronomy with only the centre area of view acceptably sharp and had quite a lot of flair on bright objects. A significant factor with this type of cheaper 12x60 is that they are often not 12x60 but 12x53 (ish) because they are internally stopped down to help control distortion to give a better overall image. This why when looking for a 12x60 I eventually looked at better quality 12x50s, which was narrowed down to two, namely the Pentaxs and the Nikon Action Extreme 12x50.  You would not have to search far to find a lot of good comments about both of them, but they are different beasts so its worth doing the research. The Nikons though, with some shopping around can be had for £135 which I reckon is a good deal.

One binocular that intrigued me was the Visionary Neoma 12x60 which can be found for £109. This is not the same type of binocular as the Celestron/Visionary type. It has a longer focal length I think, a fairly narrow field of view and is heavy-ish for a 12x60 so should be fairly sturdy, however its probably something like a 11x53 so again all is not as it seems!

My advice would be to save a little more money and go for a better quality bino such as the Pentax or the Nikon, or maybe look to going up to a 15x70 and mount it on a relatively cheap mono-pod. That would then open up a whole different  search. Good luck with your prospective purchase.

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18 hours ago, Alfian said:

Hi, regarding your search for a 12x50, I  recently spent quite some time chewing over the purchase of a 12x60 binocular and eventually having decided  on  the Pentax S 12x50WP  in the end decided to do  something different which is too long a story to go into.

Under £100 I think  something like the Celestron Skymaster 12x60 which though  seen as giving good value for money,  will be prone to being easily knocked out of adjustment. I had some Visionary 12x60 which are similar and though OK for terrestrial views were not good for astronomy with only the centre area of view acceptably sharp and had quite a lot of flair on bright objects. A significant factor with this type of cheaper 12x60 is that they are often not 12x60 but 12x53 (ish) because they are internally stopped down to help control distortion to give a better overall image. This why when looking for a 12x60 I eventually looked at better quality 12x50s, which was narrowed down to two, namely the Pentaxs and the Nikon Action Extreme 12x50.  You would not have to search far to find a lot of good comments about both of them, but they are different beasts so its worth doing the research. The Nikons though, with some shopping around can be had for £135 which I reckon is a good deal.

One binocular that intrigued me was the Visionary Neoma 12x60 which can be found for £109. This is not the same type of binocular as the Celestron/Visionary type. It has a longer focal length I think, a fairly narrow field of view and is heavy-ish for a 12x60 so should be fairly sturdy, however its probably something like a 11x53 so again all is not as it seems!

My advice would be to save a little more money and go for a better quality bino such as the Pentax or the Nikon, or maybe look to going up to a 15x70 and mount it on a relatively cheap mono-pod. That would then open up a whole different  search. Good luck with your prospective purchase.

15x70 might be a good idea. I do have a monopod thanks for the tip

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If you stick to your first idea, this model is great:

https://teleskop-austria.at/index.php?produkt=LA12x50exp#m

My brother bought one, so I could evaluate it at will; it has surprisingly little on-axis and off-axis chromatic aberration. It handles well, not heavy, very bright, no flares, large eyelenses, good eye relief, firm mechanical parts, no prob at all.

But you would't be very far from what a 10x50 has to offer, might as well jump to 60mm or 70mm.

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I agree with Ben, for two binoculars of similar quality there probably not be enough difference between 10x and 12x to make the change worthwhile at 50mm aperture. If 12x makes it necessary to mount the binocular then you might as well consider a 60mm or 70mm model which will show a difference.  :icon_biggrin:

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My Celestron SkyMaster 15 X 70mm Binoculars came with a mount for attaching these to a photo-tripod, as well as the bino's, of course. These have an actual light-throughput of about 63mm, and will open up new horizons in viewing for one.

And their price is most agreeable to the budget.

Dave

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13 hours ago, Ben the Ignorant said:

If you stick to your first idea, this model is great:

https://teleskop-austria.at/index.php?produkt=LA12x50exp#m

The UK-available 10x50 equivalent is the Strathspey Waterproof. Assuming that the only substantive difference between the 10x and the 12x is the eyepieces, in general I agree with Ben's evaluation, but would add that it is internally stopped (iris on the entrance to the prism housing) to an effective aperture of about 44mm and that there is a bit of focus "lag" that is due to the waterproofing O-rings on the eyepiece tubes doing their job properly - not "fatal", but I found it takes a bit of getting used to.

But, as the others have said, the difference between 10x50 and 12x50 is slight and something with a bit more magnification and aperture may be preferable. One such option is a 20x60; it is substantially different to a 10x50. Decent new ones are out of your budget, but you may be able to get a good used Tento within budget (there's a brief thread on them here) A friend has one and they are pretty sharp and seem well made. They don't have a tripod-mounting bush but a Kaiser clamp will fit.

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I recently purchased a pair of the nikon action ex 12x50 bins and find them superb . I did consider the Olympus 1's but the Nikons  won out

They are nitrogen filled which stops internal fogging and are waterproof to 1 metre for 5 minutes  also 3-4 stages of eye relief up to 16mm

I did find quite a difference from my 2-3 year old meade 10x50 (bought in Lidl for under 20 quid lol ) brighter and better image and seem very robust bins . I use them on a camera tripod with a binocular adapter and what a difference that makes

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On 02/01/2017 at 18:08, Alfian said:

Hi, regarding your search for a 12x50, I  recently spent quite some time chewing over the purchase of a 12x60 binocular and eventually having decided  on  the Pentax S 12x50WP  in the end decided to do  something different which is too long a story to go into.

Under £100 I think  something like the Celestron Skymaster 12x60 which though  seen as giving good value for money,  will be prone to being easily knocked out of adjustment. I had some Visionary 12x60 which are similar and though OK for terrestrial views were not good for astronomy with only the centre area of view acceptably sharp and had quite a lot of flair on bright objects. A significant factor with this type of cheaper 12x60 is that they are often not 12x60 but 12x53 (ish) because they are internally stopped down to help control distortion to give a better overall image. This why when looking for a 12x60 I eventually looked at better quality 12x50s, which was narrowed down to two, namely the Pentaxs and the Nikon Action Extreme 12x50.  You would not have to search far to find a lot of good comments about both of them, but they are different beasts so its worth doing the research. The Nikons though, with some shopping around can be had for £135 which I reckon is a good deal.

One binocular that intrigued me was the Visionary Neoma 12x60 which can be found for £109. This is not the same type of binocular as the Celestron/Visionary type. It has a longer focal length I think, a fairly narrow field of view and is heavy-ish for a 12x60 so should be fairly sturdy, however its probably something like a 11x53 so again all is not as it seems!

My advice would be to save a little more money and go for a better quality bino such as the Pentax or the Nikon, or maybe look to going up to a 15x70 and mount it on a relatively cheap mono-pod. That would then open up a whole different  search. Good luck with your prospective purchase.

Hi. I've been looking at a pair of celestron skymaster 15x70 and they are going for about £60 at maplin might try them.  just need a mount for monopod.

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4 hours ago, bill54 said:

Hi. I've been looking at a pair of celestron skymaster 15x70 and they are going for about £60 at maplin might try them.  just need a mount for monopod.

If you're going for that, you'd be a tenner better off getting the Rev 15x70 from Telescope House. Essentially the same binocular (different livery and marginally better coatings).

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4 hours ago, bill54 said:

Hi. I've been looking at a pair of celestron skymaster 15x70 and they are going for about £60 at maplin might try them.  just need a mount for monopod.

Though I have no personal experience of them and am going purely from the comments of others and reviews I  would look at these:

https://www.thebinocularshop.com/opticron-oregon-observation-70mm-binoculars.html

In some respects the "same" BA1 series binocular, the Opticrons have FMC optics as opposed the MC optics of the Celestron and importantly Opticron's quality control has a good reputation. So spending a little more should buy you a slightly better binocular with a better chance of well aligned optics. Additionally, if you purchase through FLO, you will have peace of mind that if there is an issue them, they will sort it out.

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12 hours ago, Stormbringer said:

if you do go for the maplin 1's you can reserve em to your local store and give them a good try out before you buy at least it gives a chance to see if there are problems with them

Suggestions for how to test in store, see http://binocularsky.com/binoc_eval.php

 

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plus come with a tripod adaptor

Yes, but it's one of those nasty flexible plastic ones. You can make it usable by aralditing a length of 6mm steel rod into the recess on each side. Or you could buy a proper one for about seven quid.

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7 hours ago, BinocularSky said:

Suggestions for how to test in store, see http://binocularsky.com/binoc_eval.php

 

Yes, but it's one of those nasty flexible plastic ones. You can make it usable by aralditing a length of 6mm steel rod into the recess on each side. Or you could buy a proper one for about seven quid.

Ahhh ok mate it didnt say that in the blurb i saw:happy8:

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On 1/5/2017 at 15:33, BinocularSky said:

If you're going for that, you'd be a tenner better off getting the Rev 15x70 from Telescope House. Essentially the same binocular (different livery and marginally better coatings).

I own a pair of these, on a previous recommendation by Steve Tonkin, and their pants, I  don't like them, and I have said this on may occasions in the past, preferring my 8x40s.

How wrong could I have been? Steve has always maintained that on value, they cant be  beaten, but from my light polluted site, they just did not satisfy my viewing needs, except  one night when using a little averted vision I could just make out  a galaxy in Ursa Major.

But recently I had in my hand a pair of Helios Apollo 15x70's to compare against the Revelation,  but due to an issue with the Apollos's they never got tested properly, however the Revelations from a darker site,  are well worth the money, making out M81/M82 during the last quick test. There are better optical quality binoculars, but not for £49.

I still prefer the advantages that  less magnification offers  with  the wider view on offer  with  my 8x40s, but my thoughts about the Revelations are a little more positive, not only that, having learnt  a little/lot more about  Steve's knowledge and experience (Guru!) why would he suggest  otherwise,  if they were of no use to anyone? 

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On 05/01/2017 at 15:54, Alfian said:

Though I have no personal experience of them and am going purely from the comments of others and reviews I  would look at these:

https://www.thebinocularshop.com/opticron-oregon-observation-70mm-binoculars.html

In some respects the "same" BA1 series binocular, the Opticrons have FMC optics as opposed the MC optics of the Celestron and importantly Opticron's quality control has a good reputation. So spending a little more should buy you a slightly better binocular with a better chance of well aligned optics. Additionally, if you purchase through FLO, you will have peace of mind that if there is an issue them, they will sort it out.

I've had a look at the opticrons at FlLO and like them. problem is the weight as I usually walk out.  the imagic's looked reasonable. at the end of the day it's getting a good pair of reliable binoculars wich will  give some depth of view

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1 hour ago, bill54 said:

I've had a look at the opticrons at FlLO and like them. problem is the weight as I usually walk out.  the imagic's looked reasonable. at the end of the day it's getting a good pair of reliable binoculars wich will  give some depth of view

You can't go too far wrong with iMagic range, and the 10x50s at FLO are going for a good price at the moment. Opticron do sell a  12x50 but are not advertised in many places and ones I looked at were £175.

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On 06/01/2017 at 19:59, Charic said:

I own a pair of these, on a previous recommendation by Steve Tonkin, and their pants, I  don't like them, and I have said this on may occasions in the past, preferring my 8x40s.

How wrong could I have been? Steve has always maintained that on value, they cant be  beaten,

I like to think I've been a tad more nuanced than that.:icon_biggrin:  ... something along the lines of "if you're going to get a budget (BA1) 15x70, these are possibly the best VFM". I believe them to be better VFM than the equivalent Skymaster, but I have certainly never lauded their optical or mechanical features and try to instil a bit of realism when asked about their qualities. e.g. from http://binocularsky.com/binoc_choosing.php#2

Quote

2.  Realistic Expectations and Quality

Where binoculars are concerned, you tend to get what you pay for and, if something looks too good to be true, it probably is.

It is nowadays possible to obtain a 10×50 binocular for as little as £15 and a 15×70 binocular for around £50.  These budget 15×70s, most of which are made by the Chinese manufacturer Kunming Optical (also known as United Optical and Binoculars China), are a remarkable achievement for the price, and have made this class of binocular available to many more people than was the case 20 years ago when you would have needed to pay ten times as much for a 70mm astronomical binocular (albeit of far better quality).  However, these binoculars are over-represented in "how do I solve this problem?" type threads on astronomical forums.  Think about it: a minimally decent astronomical eyepiece costs about £40.  A binocular has two eyepieces, two objectives, two different focusing mechanisms, prisms and housing, and other bits of tubing: realistically, what sort of quality is it reasonable to expect for the cost of one and a quarter eyepieces (in the case of the 15×70)?

 

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6 hours ago, BinocularSky said:

I like to think I've been a tad more nuanced than that.:icon_biggrin:

You were. It was never my belief,  after purchase, that these were brilliant optics, but they were good value, getting folk into the 15x70 realm, the reason for my  initial purchase.
Their  also good for my daylight  terrestrial needs, which is where I favour their use  most these days, that said, having used the Revelations recently at the dark site, my opinion changed somewhat, they are cheap, they do work, but there are better.

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On 03/01/2017 at 22:26, Ben the Ignorant said:

If you stick to your first idea, this model is great:

https://teleskop-austria.at/index.php?produkt=LA12x50exp#m

My brother bought one, so I could evaluate it at will; it has surprisingly little on-axis and off-axis chromatic aberration. It handles well, not heavy, very bright, no flares, large eyelenses, good eye relief, firm mechanical parts, no prob at all.

But you would't be very far from what a 10x50 has to offer, might as well jump to 60mm or 70mm.

I recently bought the *10x50 Hilkinson Dartmouth version of these for only £65, but found them to have a slight blurry quality.  This was in comparison to the only other binoculars I've owned, Kowa YF 8x30's, that seemed sharper.  I did a quick collimation test on the Darmouths, as suggested in a recent thread, by de-focusing the right dioptor and looking at a star. The left sharp star positioned itself at 11 o'clock on the outer edge of the right-hand fuzzy disk.  

The shop took them back for an examination and said they were not out of collimation.  They fully refunded me anyhow.  

I've noticed the Dartmouth and Ostara Elinor 10x50 (identical bar the twist eyecups) has received mainly positive feedback, so I was probably just unlucky.

 

http://www.sherwoods-photo.com/hilkinson_binoculars/dartmouth.htm

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