Failed observation advice/help

[Nathan UK]

Firstly guys I know Venus is close to the moon tonight and also Mars and Neptune is close by (although Mars maybe blocking Neptune??? IDK)

but unfortunatley there all out of reach tonight due to not leaving my back garden and trees are in the way.......

So I decided I would view the M31

starting at Pegaus

schedar to alpheratz to Mirach....

telescope in perfect focus

Garuntee I was viewing the right spot I used sky map and start hopped perfectly and quadruple checked.

first view of the area where the M31 calls home I used x26 

All I could see was pin prick stars 

so had a go at X 65 and view was pretty much the same .

i know not to expect a Stephen Hawkins TV program type view but is the correct??? Shouldn't i see more then some pin prick stars???

or is that what your supposed to see through your scope???

do I need to decrease mag? Add mag? Or did I view the m31 and it wasn't what I expected???

ON THE PLUS SIDE

i accidentally caught a meteor/shooting start while observing the M31 area which was rather pleasant 

thanks and all the best 

Nathan

[Moonshane]

Mars is within about a moon width of Neptune. Here's a sketch I did tonight.

Re M31 is your finder lined up? I.e. try it on the moon and if the moon is In the finder and then the 25mm eyepiece it will never good enough.

You should see M31 as a patch of mist in the finder.  In the 25mm eyepiece if will be a faint mist with a bright fuzzy core.  look for the fuzzy star nearby which Is M32

[Nathan UK]

4 minutes ago, Moonshane said:

Mars is within about a moon width of Neptune. Here's a sketch I did tonight.

Re M31 is your finder lined up? I.e. try it on the moon and if the moon is In the finder and then the 25mm eyepiece it will never good enough.

You should see M31 as a patch of mist in the finder.  In the 25mm eyepiece if will be a faint mist with a bright fuzzy core.  look for the fuzzy star nearby which Is M32

Yeah mate my finders lined up...

im using a red dot finder scope

i couldn't see the m31 through that but could star hop to the general area and then look through the eye piece at x26 .....

coming to think about it now there was a fuzzy star haha so I must of seen my target. 

What X mag would you think would give the best view of it?

im guessing with a little more mag I could get more detail??

[michaelmorris]

What scope are you using?   M31 is a great object to image.  However, in smaller scopes many galaxies can be singularly unimpressive.  

[Stu]

19 minutes ago, Nathan UK said:

 

Firstly guys I know Venus is close to the moon tonight and also Mars and Neptune is close by (although Mars maybe blocking Neptune??? IDK)

 

Mars is not blocking (or occulting) Neptune. They are close but not THAT close

M31 is generally visible in a scope even under some fairly tough light pollution. Shane's descriptions are bang on, check your finder and have another go perhaps.

Less mag is best for M31, it's a big object although under LP you only see the core which is much smaller.

[Nathan UK]

Hi Michael I'm using the Skywatcher explorer 130p/650

[Nathan UK]

1 minute ago, Stu said:

Mars is not blocking (or occulting) Neptune. They are close but not THAT close

M31 is generally visible in a scope even under some fairly tough light pollution. Shane's descriptions are bang on, check your finder and have another go perhaps.

Less mag is best for M31, it's a big object although under LP you only see the core which is much smaller.

Hi Stu when you say less mag in better what kind of mag do you have in mind??

as I say I was using SWE130P /650

with a 25mm EP which gave me x26.... 

I did see a fuzzy star but it was really small and lacked in any sort of detail apart from being a pin prick star with a bit of blur around it  haha at the time I thought it was just a star as I did not know it was supposed to look like that how can I enhance my view of the m31? I'm confident I've found it now

[Nathan UK]

Or is my scope just not upto making it more then a fuzzy blob???

[Stu]

21 minutes ago, Nathan UK said:

Hi Stu when you say less mag in better what kind of mag do you have in mind??

as I say I was using SWE130P /650

with a 25mm EP which gave me x26.... 

I did see a fuzzy star but it was really small and lacked in any sort of detail apart from being a pin prick star with a bit of blur around it  haha at the time I thought it was just a star as I did not know it was supposed to look like that how can I enhance my view of the m31? I'm confident I've found it now

x26 is fine to be honest. The key thing is to understand fields of view. Your 25mm eyepiece gives an actual field of view of 1.9 degrees which is more than enough to contain the visible part of M31 under light polluted skies.

The best way to see M31 better is to head somewhere properly dark. Under good skies it starts to show its full extent of around 3 degrees across ie it would fill the eyepiece you have. With a widefield 30mm eyepiece for instance you can get enough sky in the view to contain the whole object. I'm not suggesting you run out and do this, just giving context. This image shows the two relative fields of view I have talked about.

[brantuk]

This is what it looks like only a fair bit fainter. A 10x50 pair of bins is all you need to find it - once you're sure then you can point the scope. It doesn't need magnifying at all - what you need is a low power wide view and the best quality glass within budget - 25mm to 40mm eyepieces are more than enough.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=how+to+find+andromeda+galaxy+from+orion&biw=1177&bih=612&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjx2JeP5aHRAhXJdFAKHUG-B1QQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=8CokMAd7Dbvf2M%3A

It will be a fuzzy blob in any telescope - the only way to see it better is to image it - you're eyes are more limited than you think and the camera can pick up stuff none of us can physically see.

[brantuk]

Here's how to find M31.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=how+to+find+andromeda+galaxy+from+orion&biw=1177&bih=612&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjx2JeP5aHRAhXJdFAKHUG-B1QQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=6JhHzt3hg67wGM%3A

[Nathan UK]

Thanks guys

[ronin]

Guessing that you were not looking at M31, the almost universal complaint is that it was just a bit less dim fuzzy blob. The initial magnification of 26x is reasonable as that would deliver about 2 degrees or maybe a bit more. M31 being about 3 degrees across even that is a little too high. Looking at M31 and pin sharp stars is not a common complaint, fuzzy indistinct mess is normal.

Another strange thing is people sort of just do not see it even if looking at it. Once shown whewre and how and it appears after that they seem to find it very much easier at any time afterwards without too much trouble, still not easy. Bit of an odd object and likely it is owing to our ganeral light pollution.

Usually suggest binoculars for M31, at least initially.

[laudropb]

I totally agree with Ronin. The easiest way to find M31 for the first time is to use bins. Once you find it then it will be a lot easier to locate in your scope. Keep trying and you will get there.

[rockystar]

I can see it in my finder in pretty light polluted skies, so you shouldn't have any trouble with your telescope

[wookie1965]

M31 does not look like the pictures in books even in my 8 inch from light polluted location can only really see the bright core with a bit of fuzziness around it, like many people have said viewed from a dark site it looks better. I use a 25mm in my scope I have used a 15mm but it does not improve the view that much (x66).

[cloudsweeper]

If you reckon you're on target, it could be you are expecting more than you will see.  Spend some time at the eyepiece, and it should eventually pop up, but as others have said, it really is nothing more than a small, pale, fuzzy patch.  (Still interesting though, when you ponder on what it is!)

Doug.

[Nathan UK]

5 minutes ago, cloudsweeper said:

If you reckon you're on target, it could be you are expecting more than you will see.  Spend some time at the eyepiece, and it should eventually pop up, but as others have said, it really is nothing more than a small, pale, fuzzy patch.  (Still interesting though, when you ponder on what it is!)

Doug.

I do believe I have seen it and it wasn't what I expected mate.

i know I was on target due to star hopping and starting again to be sure numerous times and I was also using sky map, 

theres no doubt in my mind I was on the point of interest,

i also seen the fuzzy blob amongst pin point stars which I questioned myself "is that it"? And I thought no can't be its a blurred star haha.

i think it I would of spent more time observing it rather then going back to star hopping and maybe if I was in a less light polluted place at the time I would of eye adjusted and seen more. I am satisfied I have seen it now and next time I will view it from a local fielded area for a longer period of time....

i will have my iPhone adapter in the next few days also so I will take some stills to share with you all and so it can be confirmed by yourselves although I already feel more then certain

thanks for your replies guys 

[Nyctimene]

For me, the most reliable way to find M 31 is the way you used: to start from the left upper corner of Pegasus (Alpheratz), then go "Two stars left ( to Mirach)- two right" (to Nu And). Try this with binoculars; even the smaller ones will bring M 31 into view. In a few years, you will be able to make it out with bins within seconds, for sure, even in a moderate sky.

And: learn to have patience. You can compare the way to stargazing with the way you take to become a connoisseur of Bordeaux wines:

It is a loooong way -but a very beautiful one! So, enjoy every step forward.

I've made observation notes since 1970 and like to read them once in a while, just to remember my way in stargazing, this essential

part of my life. Very rewarding!

Stephan

[domstar]

"Try again, fail again, fail better" 

I read this in the forum once and I just thought yes.

[Nathan UK]

25 minutes ago, domstar said:

"Try again, fail again, fail better" 

I read this in the forum once and I just thought yes.

Couldn't agree with you more...

i plan on failing with style next time haha I've just gave the kid across the road my old scope so I guess I will be showing him the tiny little I know I this evening 

[Nathan UK]

42 minutes ago, Nyctimene said:

For me, the most reliable way to find M 31 is the way you used: to start from the left upper corner of Pegasus (Alpheratz), then go "Two stars left ( to Mirach)- two right" (to Nu And). Try this with binoculars; even the smaller ones will bring M 31 into view. In a few years, you will be able to make it out with bins within seconds, for sure, even in a moderate sky.

And: learn to have patience. You can compare the way to stargazing with the way you take to become a connoisseur of Bordeaux wines:

It is a loooong way -but a very beautiful one! So, enjoy every step forward.

I've made observation notes since 1970 and like to read them once in a while, just to remember my way in stargazing, this essential

part of my life. Very rewarding!

Stephan

I defiantly  haven patenients .....

i can give my other half the silent treatment for days on end until she cracks haha

im glad you think I chose the right star route that's even more encouraging I look forward to a longer view next time and I'm confident I will locate it in a matter of seconds 

thanks for your reply a guys 

nathan