Fingers crossed for tonight, what might I see, what should I use? Now - observation diary

[JOC]

I've been out, I've been out!!

So after hiking and wondering about the cloud I took a gamble and poked the kit outside so at the very least we could take a look at the ?. Anything would do after the recent dry spell of observation weather and the ? is quite satisfying to see.  Looking at the clouds and the fact we started in daylight I didn't bother with the goto though later wished I had.  Still I had a lot of new things to try.  I used my new new home-made truss tube  light shield and it seemed to work well.  I got first light with my expensive Baader 14mm EP and am really pleased with it. I also put both finderscopes onto my new clamp holder.  This is so much better.  Next time the red dot needs a bit of a shim to get it to align,  but providers I remembered how far it was out I was fine.  The RDF got me in the ball park, this then meant the RA finderscopes with its magnification then had the target close enough to see and I could then find the object t in the EP as the finderscope was bang on target.  Finally I stand a chance of finding objects.?

So we got the moon (this even came well in a cheap and cheerful 4mm EP) it was stunning through the Baader.  Then I did Jupiter 4 moons and 3! Stripes with the Baader.  Also tried it barlowed x2 still good.  Very bright.  Tried 82a - not enough so added, half the polariser. Too.  That seemed to work.  Then tried the next bright star that appeared nearby - arcturus.  So what next without the goto?  Finally I found Rocky Star's double Inthe second star of the plough's handle. (Actually I also Took a look at several of the handle Star's but it was very overhead and the telescope isn't easy to nudge at that angle)  - lovely and completely split too.  Then I asked stellarium for the beehive cluster and MANUALLY found it ?,.  Then i tried for the globular cluster m13. Which stellarium said was near Hercules.  Took me a while to spot the constellation, but  finally I found Vega and sorted the diamond shape and started scanning between them.  No cluster, but as I searched in that area a real life faint greyfuzzy appeared like a thumb print in the middle of the view.  The trouble is I don't know what I was looking at except it seemed vaguely round in shape.  I rushed in for my filters, screwed them all on.  Looked through excitedly and ......Nothing.....The clouds had finally won.  So that was my evening ?

[rockystar]

Pleased you found Mizar Sounds like you probably had M13 in the view, go back to it next time and spend a bit of time looking, you should start to see some starts resolved, it won't be helped by filters though.

I love the 14mm Morpheus, it spends a lot of time in my telescope. Glad that you like it.

[JOC]

Hi Rockystar, yes! Mizar that was def. the name you told me about. The second one in fron the end of the plough handle.  It was an incredibly clear split.  In fact, to my untrained eye, I think they looked further apart than Castor's pair are.  It was so nice to finally find something that I had been told about!  

Now going back to the house for the filters, you see I didn't realise that could have been M13 itself.  I had been expecting a cloud of stars of the same sort of scale ss the beehive I had just found.  I though I was possibly on a FGF (faint grey fuzzy) which a filter might have helped.  In fact thinking about it and the clouds that had swallowed the sky withun the 5 mins. I was inside, it is possible that it could have been M13 as you think maybe with a thin layer of cloud already over it and not a FGF.  That was when I was wishing I had got the goto running as it might have helped drive the telescope to the actual M13 target.  

I was really pleased with how all the objects showed up.  Even the moon seened sharper than normal.  Is it possible that my attempt at collimation would have helped?  It was the telescope's first use since doing it.  Every time I got a defocussed star it defocussed to perfect circles which it had never done before.  I even got a thurd stripe out of Jupy which I hadn't seen before.  I'm sure it couldn't just have been my expensive bit of glass.  

Mind you the 14mm Morpheus was lovely even my mum with glaucoma could see through it nicely and didn't need to get too close to it (we both use spectacles).   Mum even saw Jupy's stripes too.  The 15mm Meade had been so good that when I missed the 14mm Morpheus on sgl buy and sell because I was being good I was actually so gutted that I got one anyway.  It cost me a bit more but I had really fancied it.  Doubled up they both hit what seems to be a sweet spot on the scope -it won't go much beyind that, but there are good views to be had at 7-8mm.  I've checked and although I can't run to a TV powermate my Skywatcher barlow is apparent their 'delux' one and doesn't get bad reviews online.  It seems to do the job well, though with my expensive Morpheus on I do pay a lot of attention to making sure the grub screws are tight!  

Another plus of last night is that I now know where Hercules is. :-)  

I have also decided to try and get a softly lined zipped pouch or bag for sitting the EPs in between uses, ideally that I can dip into by touch.  The morpheus has a pouch, but that only wieks if I wear a belt.   I think a strappy bag or waist pouch is what I need to find in a charity shop !

[elliot]

It's a stunning night.  M5 and M13 are easy targets for binoculars from my back garden. I'm certainly getting better with star-hopping and was able to find M5 with the binoculars in just a few hops. A printer and a clipboard really are excellent accessories!

[Stu]

52 minutes ago, JOC said:

Now going back to the house for the filters, you see I didn't realise that could have been M13 itself.  I had been expecting a cloud of stars of the same sort of scale ss the beehive I had just found.  I though I was possibly on a FGF (faint grey fuzzy) which a filter might have helped.  In fact thinking about it and the clouds that had swallowed the sky withun the 5 mins. I was inside, it is possible that it could have been M13 as you think maybe with a thin layer of cloud already over it and not a FGF.  That was when I was wishing I had got the goto running as it might have helped drive the telescope to the actual M13 target.  

M13 is much smaller than the Beehive as you can see in the attached SkySafari pics at the same scale.

You should see stars resolve in M13, depending upon the scope. In a smaller one you need averted vision to make them 'sparkle', in a big dob it will resolve into the core.

EDIT As I think you know, M13 won't benefit from a filter, it is not 'that kind of FGF' 

[John]

14 minutes ago, Stu said:

......EDIT As I think you know, M13 won't benefit from a filter, it is not 'that kind of FGF' 

 

I agree with Stu. The more aperture you have, the more resolution you get with gobular clusters. Filters just don't make any difference with them or with galaxies. Nebulae are the deep sky objects that filters can help with.

[John]

1 hour ago, elliot said:

It's a stunning night.  M5 and M13 are easy targets for binoculars from my back garden. I'm certainly getting better with star-hopping and was able to find M5 with the binoculars in just a few hops. A printer and a clipboard really are excellent accessories!

M92 is another great globular cluster in Hercules and another that binoculars will show. It starts to resolve nicely with a 120mm aperture scope and is a real treat in a 12"

[JOC]

Hi Stu, I see what you mean - it is much smaller isn't it - though your pics show exactly what I saw when I thought I was on the beehive so that confirms my identification :-)   The object I saw resembled something of that size, but it was not as bright - though as I guess it could have been behind a layer of cloud.  Sound like I def. need to re-visit Hercules as it sounds like there are several interesting targets there.  I would love to find this big cluster and maybe in my 8" with some decent magnification on a clear night I can also get some of the stars in the cluster to resolve too :-)  I am starting to realise that if I think I can see the objects with my naked eye it seems to equate to conditions that are good for astronomy.  I don't see them clearly with the naked eye, but its almost as though I can tell that the might be 'something' in the sky at the point that then shows as a cluster - this is what I did with the Beehive.

[rockystar]

M13 resolves a few stars in my 8" in my LP back garden, and looks even better at a dark site. M3 is a pretty GC too. It looks like we might be getting you hooked on a whole new set of FGFs - and summer is a good time for them too.

 

[elliot]

10 hours ago, John said:

and is a real treat in a 12"

I'll just have to make do with my 10 incher I've just ordered     MUCH EXCITE!!! 

[JOC]

1 hour ago, elliot said:

I'll just have to make do with my 10 incher I've just ordered     MUCH EXCITE!!! 

I'm pleased for you - I don't think I could have run to something much bigger than I got both from a finance and practical using perspective.  I guess with telescopes (with few exceptions) there are probably always going to be those with something bigger than what you have.  I have to keep telling myself that what I have is a reasonable set of beginner kit (I'm sure it is) and I am lucky to have it.

[elliot]

That sounds very sensible @JOC, I suffered terrible paralysis analysis before clicking Buy. I really wanted the GoTo but only for the gadgetiness of it. I had to be sensible and go for aperture over GoTo as DSOs are what I want to be looking at and enjoy star hopping.  I know I'd spend all my time mucking around with the GoTo itself and never look at anything.

[JOC]

4 minutes ago, elliot said:

That sounds very sensible @JOC, I suffered terrible paralysis analysis before clicking Buy. I really wanted the GoTo but only for the gadgetiness of it. I had to be sensible and go for aperture over GoTo as DSOs are what I want to be looking at and enjoy star hopping.  I know I'd spend all my time mucking around with the GoTo itself and never look at anything.

Arriving at this hobby from a standing start and pitching into what I bought was somewhat of a baptism by fire.  I didn't even know enough stars to calibrate the system let alone do it correctly - I then didn't absorb enough of the instructions before trying to use it and consequently my results were nothing if not inconsistent in terms of it finding the right objects for me. 

It took those more knowledgeable on SGL to realise what was contributing to my lack of success and also to point me back at the de/instructions (funny I hadn't read these properly - that's often a man problem I find) and I now believe I could do it correctly.  I had just assumed that it thought for itself more than it did.  However, since this revelation I haven't actually calibrated it - firstly because I sent the base back to be de-squeaked (literally), and then its just been cloudy.  As you have read I got out two nights ago and because I started in the daylight and with iffy potential cloudy weather I chose the quicker setup route of just dumping the kit outside minus the tricky calibration stuff.  What I need is a predictable clear evening when I know I will time to use it if I set it up properly - and it doesn't help that I go out two nights a week.   

The thing I find unexpected is that I can get nearly as much use out of it without the Goto - perhaps because I'm not yet trying to find anything too complicated.  I do, however, like the tracking action when I do have it functioning (it's a pain nudging it when I don't and my parents can't cope with nudging so they keep losing things) so it is def. worth having because of that alone.

I bet you will enjoy the 10" on your DSO's.  I haven't yet worked out what I like looking at/finding most.  I think my favourite thing so far has been M42 and the trapezium.  I can at least see that nebula and it is very satisfying to put on the high power lens and see the star split up - I have so far only got 4 out of it, but I now know how to collimate and perhaps that will help.  The trouble is now that's gone for the summer I now need a new favourite object.  Jupiter is quite nice and although I know the imagers have mixed feelings about its brightness the moon is interesting in its own right - it's very majestic and it's quite awesome to get close enough to see the ups and downs of the craters etc.  I am quite interested in these clusters and clearly Hercules might produce something interesting in that line, and I can't wait for my first view of Saturn, but I've got to wait until it surfaces before midnight and ideally around 10:30 and I know that won't happen until later in the year. 

The worst thing about astronomy def. seems to be waiting for the weather - I sit here with enough kit to keep a small observatory going for the next 5 years, but, like the rest of you, can't get to use it.  No wonder Gina has time for her clock projects!

[rockystar]

M13 is def one of my favs, this time of year, and I can normally get straight to it with the telrad, now that I know where it is.

Enjoy deciding what your fave summer object is

 

[JOC]

Well I've been out.  However, it wasn't the most satisfying 'out' that I've had.  On the plus side I have Def. Confirmed that the combination of red dot and completely keyed in RACI is Def. Working for me.  I can now look at something in the sky and within 30secs can have it in the scopes EP.  The RDF gets me close enough to find the object in the sight line of the RACI with its cross hairs and the object is then within grabbing distance of the EP.   In theory this solves getting the goto set-up doesn't it?  Yeah, should be a doddle now I can point the scope at a named star and get it aligned with Polaris. Shouldn't it?.......fat chance.  So tonight is my first time with the repaired base powered up.   It doesn't squeak any more, I will give them that.  However, after tonight I'm pretty confident that it isn't tracking either.  I shall therefore get on the phone tomrrow.  I did things by the  book, started off with it pointing at pole star norrth laid it down at zero horizontal and Plugged it in.  Put in the settings as per Synscan init2 then went for a 2 star align.  Acturus first - no mistaking him, but send it off to find Polaris and it hasn't a clue. A seamless process you might think.  More another day...!

I got tired last night.

So to continue......................I shall contact FLO today because the system didn't want to track either - I wonder if the base I got back wasn't my original one and whether I might need an updated handset.  On the plus side they do appear to have cured that extraordinary squeak which has to be a good thing.  However, FLO are generally brilliant when I contact them (I don't think I could have got it from a better company)  and I have no doubt that this hiccup is solve-able.  

I am not convinced by this great big bright full moon either.  It's lovely to look at once you cut the brightness with a filter, but its just about all you can see - it was a clear night, but very few stars visible - the rotten plough was almost too overhead to be useful too - I find the Dob is very hard to move manually when it is pointing quite vertical.  Arcturus came out very early up and to the left of the moon, and there was a bright one just above my garage NE but I didn't know what it was.  I def. had Polaris correct - checked in various ways, but as noted above the goto has issues, but I can't get a second star out of Polaris - is it an easy split? 

I did get 3 possibly 4 stripes out of Jupiter and 4 moons, one thing I did notice was that the image got clearer when I deliberately blinked - very odd!

Then the phone battery died and I lost Stellarium as well - no map, no stars, a bright moon I could read by, the plough very awkward, the mount not tracking - I gave up and came inside most frustrated.

 

 

[JOC]

Why, oh why, do I live in a house that goes to sleep at 22:30 and which contains a light sleeper who doesn't appreciate being woken at all?

Mixed bag tonight and a theory I now need to try.  

Firstly the wins.  

1.  I was finally able to show my nephew Jupiter.  I must have got about 3 minutes concerted attention from him before he ran off.  This is actually a fairly good result and he made suitably impressed comments

2.  Polaris - RockyStar assures me it's a double.  It is if its pair is far, far fainter than the primary within my Dob EP.  The secondary  appeared above and to the right of the primary and further apart than say, Mizar.  How does that sound?  If it sounds right then I must def. Be on Polaris.

The fails

1.  Couldn't find M13 manually.  By 10:15 lots of stars were up so I got the goto out.   Hooked it all up, every callibration I tried failed.  I do have a theory though.   I am going to take off my home-made light shield and the Morpheus and go back to using the scope with just the kit that it csme with.  Maybe it is too heavy.  It seems to slew horizontally but doesn't seem to want to do too much vertical movement.  At the moment in time anything is worth a try another night.

[Davesellars]

How much does your light shield weigh?  It's not difficult to unbalance the flextube so it's most likely that and the heavier eyepiece.  Easily fixed though by putting some weight on the bottom to rebalance.

[rockystar]

@JOC https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polaris

have a look at the position angle, and try to relate it to the orientation of your scope, and compare the angular distance to that of Mizar

Position Angle of 230 deg, will put it at about 8 o'clock, so flip it in both axis, above and right

 

[JOC]

11 hours ago, Davesellars said:

How much does your light shield weigh?  It's not difficult to unbalance the flextube so it's most likely that and the heavier eyepiece.  Easily fixed though by putting some weight on the bottom to rebalance.

I didn't think it weighed a lot, but with a heavy EP it must be adding to balance issues.  At the moment I think I need to rule out problems with the SynScan unit and I know it was functioning with the original telescope as it arrived.  The base is far quieter and is slewing much more smoothly than the original one, but I haven't had any success with the calibration since it returned from repair.  However, as I was packing up last night it dawned on me that since it returned I've had my light shield on the system and the heavier EP's in place.  I think before I call foul on the SynScan I need to have a session with it on a 'naked' telescope, i.e. back to how it was when it first arrived with the original EP's.  Last night I was trying just a single brightest star calibration.  I was starting with it level and aligned to a Polaris North.  There was not reason for it to fail.  As it moved I started off with tell it we would find Arcturus - I am certain even I can't miss Arcturus, then I sent it off to find Polaris (leaving aside that apparently you are best not using polaris it was an easy check to see it is moved to the right location), in the finish I noted that it had moved horizontally to the approx. correct location, but it hadn't slewed upwards and this was when I had the clue that it might be a weight issue.  I have a real issue with things not doing what they should and I shan't rest until I find out why!  More starry nights needed! 

[JOC]

OK, I am pleased to report that the SynScan is fine, which is more than can be said for the prat that's been driving it.  It finally dawned on me tonight that I had forgotten to enter the zeros into the Longitude setting, thus the figures were 41 degrees and not 41 minutes East.  Needless to say it then took me to wrong place, It retains the previous settings, so once I had it entered wrong I had just stuck with the current entry and not changed it.

I think I will now put the light shield back on!  Anyhow with it working I had a bash at some of the M numbers.  M92, Def. Had it in my sights with the 15mm, I couldn't any better view of it and couldn't see separate stars.  M13, In the finish I found it in the view and gradually crept in on it.  In the finish got a great view with a 8mm TMB clone.  Some stars splitting off and clearly an object with a fair amount going on.   However, it wasn't instantly gratifying and I had to work at it.  

I couldn't find the circle/ring nebula, or Andromeda galaxy.  Took a look at Jupiter all the moon's had moved from last night.  I didn't know if it was my eyes or not, but at about 22:45 would there have been a moon transit shadow to see?

The clouds finally won at about 23:40, and I gave up.

[Stu]

8 hours ago, JOC said:

OK, I am pleased to report that the SynScan is fine, which is more than can be said for the prat that's been driving it.  It finally dawned on me tonight that I had forgotten to enter the zeros into the Longitude setting, thus the figures were 41 degrees and not 41 minutes East.  Needless to say it then took me to wrong place, It retains the previous settings, so once I had it entered wrong I had just stuck with the current entry and not changed it.

I think I will now put the light shield back on!  Anyhow with it working I had a bash at some of the M numbers.  M92, Def. Had it in my sights with the 15mm, I couldn't any better view of it and couldn't see separate stars.  M13, In the finish I found it in the view and gradually crept in on it.  In the finish got a great view with a 8mm TMB clone.  Some stars splitting off and clearly an object with a fair amount going on.   However, it wasn't instantly gratifying and I had to work at it.  

I couldn't find the circle nebula, or Andromeda galaxy.  Took a look at Jupiter all the moon's had moved from last night.  I didn't know if it was my eyes or not, but at about 22:45 would there have been a moon transit shadow to see?

The clouds finally won at about 23:40, and I gave up.

Sounds like great progress, well done for sorting the Synscan settings, they can be confusing!

M13 will show some good detail under the right conditions, using averted vision can often help the stars around the outside to pop into view. I often find that if I look straight at it, then flick my attention to the edge of the field then that starts to resolve it.

To your last point, yes, there was a shadow transit (Io) last night and it would have been visible at 22.45. Well done!

[JOC]

55 minutes ago, Stu said:

yes, there was a shadow transit (Io) last night and it would have been visible at 22.45. Well done!

Really chuffed with this.  Far better to do it this way round than to know it was there and go looking for it - I think if you go looking for something that you know should be there you are liable to convince yourself you have seen something you might not have done.  Yet, seeing something and then confirming that, yes, it was actually there means that yes, I def. saw it.  Many thanks for confirming that. 

Once I knew I had M13 I stuck with it - I think Rockystar had said it needed work.  I crept in closer and closer with the various EP's, and yes, it did seem better when I looked briefly to the side of it.  It's funny how different EP's work better on different objects.  The 6mm TMB clone pushed too far and failed, but the 8mm TMB clone was spot on - easy to look into and a good field of view - after a little while I could see why M13 was deemed so interesting - strange that I failed to get similar resolution out of M92 though.

[Stu]

56 minutes ago, JOC said:

strange that I failed to get similar resolution out of M92 though.

M92 is a fair bit smaller than M13 so not surprising you didn't get as much out of it.

[SilverAstro]

19 hours ago, JOC said:

OK, I am pleased to report that the SynScan is fine, which is more than can be said for the prat that's been driving it.  It finally dawned on me tonight that I had forgotten to enter the zeros into the Longitude setting, 

It retains the previous settings, 

or Andromeda galaxy.  

Good news ! glad you got it sorted,  we all been down the prat road at one time or other   my claim to fame is that - over the years I have read tails of GoTo woes that were often resolved by sorting the american month/day/year for the brit day/month/year format, I would never make a mistake like that I thought, would I ? When I got my new fancy do-it-all mount it took me several days to realise - and it wasnt hidden, I was making the same error at each power-up ! doh !!

As for your lack of Andromeda, could be because it sets about 8pm bst and does not pop back up till about 3am at this time of year.

M13 is a nice  fav. - in my youff I used to be able to see it unaided eye, alas no longer, but I blame global warming and moisture laden skies

 

[JOC]

12 minutes ago, SilverAstro said:

As for your lack of Andromeda, could be because it sets about 8pm bst and does not pop back up till about 3am at this time of year.

M13 is a nice  fav. - in my youff I used to be able to see it unaided eye, alas no longer, but I blame global warming and moisture laden skies

Ah, well that more than explains Andromeda!

The M13 is creeping a bit towards the lit factory behind my garage, so it's not ideal - it doesn't help in finding it until it gets properly dark. 

It's finding plausible targets at the moment that is proving interesting.  I lose the lower N-NW sky behind our trees where I have my setup and the lower S-SW sky behind the house, but I still can't find a better place without a 400 yard walk with the gear to the middle of the dark field (I can't see me doing this unless I have visitors who want to come and bring their own telescopes.).  I go down the Messier list while I'm outside and don't know until the telescope ends up pointing through the trees that I can't see it.  I guess I ought to spend more time planning inside, or maybe try the deep sky tour on the Goto.