M45 Pleiades - The Seven Sisters (Widefield Hybrid)

[PatrickGilliland]

Another in my widefield hybrid series - here we have M45 Pleiades - The Seven Sisters (Widefield Hybrid) from a Rokinon 135mm @ F2 and FSQ 106 c.19 hours combined data.

The wide-field data helps provide a little more context and demonstrates the extent of the reflection nebula

C&C Welcome

Paddy

[Rodd]

Nice Paddy--I think the background around use some desaturation (replacing teh background with Ha stack in this case would look great).  Also--the red dust may be a bit oversaturated.   To my eye on my monitor at least.  Losts of detail in tha t data. 

[PatrickGilliland]

1 minute ago, Rodd said:

Nice Paddy--I think the background around use some desaturation (replacing teh background with Ha stack in this case would look great).  Also--the red dust may be a bit oversaturated.   To my eye on my monitor at least.  Losts of detail in tha t data. 

Thanks for comments Rodd - it is and LRGB shot so no HA in there or available.  On my colour calibrated monitor the background is not showing as red, closer to brown which was the intention (maybe it's being lost across displays?).  The background where light is extinguished is  to all intensive purposes black (I tested that) - the rest is just dust that is there.

Not much else can be done to realise the dust without it being removed - I tried that also  

Paddy  

[Rodd]

14 minutes ago, PatrickGilliland said:

Thanks for comments Rodd - it is and LRGB shot so no HA in there or available.  On my colour calibrated monitor the background is not showing as red, closer to brown which was the intention (maybe it's being lost across displays?).  The background where light is extinguished is  to all intensive purposes black (I tested that) - the rest is just dust that is there.

Not much else can be done to realise the dust without it being removed - I tried that also  

Paddy  

Background looks blue not red to me.  Maybe its my monitor.  I find my images look different on different monitors and on different forums.   I still think there may be too much saturation.  Then again, I am not used to seeing such a wide field view.  Whatever the case--great image.  

[Pompey Monkey]

1 hour ago, Rodd said:

 I still think there may be too much saturation.  Then again, I am not used to seeing such a wide field view.  Whatever the case--great image.  

Don't agree with you on the saturation, Rodd: I think the saturation is required to discriminate between the different dust components. In fact the colours are very similar to my modest (but not so humble now) RGB (synth L) M45 from a few days back, although I need about 4-5 times the 4 1/2 exposure to really allow the level of saturation that I'm looking for.

I do agree with you, however, that it's a cracking image.

Paddy: it's so smoooooth!

[wimvb]

Another masterpiece. I in my turn have to agree with Paul: smooth!. Is it the integration time, the camera or the software (noise reduction) that does this?

What is causing the red in the lower left corner? I noticed that there is a similar red patch to the right of M45, so it may be part of a nebula, I guess.

Thanks for sharing.

[Barry-Wilson]

Another super scale combination Paddy - I never realised the blue reflection nebula was so extensive.

An even wider field including much of the Perseus Molecular Cloud over to the California Neb woud be great . . . . just arrange the weather, will you ? LOL!

[alan4908]

Very impressive Paddy - I do like the dust colours.

Alan

[Steve 1962]

Woh! That is a lovely image that really shows M45 in context. I've never seen that arc of blue extending "southwards" before.

Just great.

Steve

[matt-c]

I love it! On my laptop the background is a lovely dusty brown but it does look different on my mobile (not bad just different) so maybe that has something to do with the earlier comments?

I'm not sure i've ever seen m45 showing this much dust and fluff 

I'm very interested in how do you go about combining such different focal lengths?

 

[PatrickGilliland]

4 hours ago, Pompey Monkey said:

Don't agree with you on the saturation, Rodd: I think the saturation is required to discriminate between the different dust components. In fact the colours are very similar to my modest (but not so humble now) RGB (synth L) M45 from a few days back, although I need about 4-5 times the 4 1/2 exposure to really allow the level of saturation that I'm looking for.

I do agree with you, however, that it's a cracking image.

Paddy: it's so smoooooth!

You nailed it really Paul, the colour is required for the overall segregation of the areas within the image.  Tweaking to personal taste is always an option but will be in this ballpark for it to work.  Once you have c.15 each RGB just keep banging away at the lum data.  Once you get to 25-30 there is likely sufficient (subject to your viewing limitations) data to get all you can from the area (that said with the inverse square of signal rule there is always more or cleaner data available if you have the time, I have shot 150 + subs on some dim targets and it does eventually pay dividends, the % of improvement just becomes less per frame so 30 is good to get a small improvement on that next step may be 65 and next 150 etc) .  RGB is just colour and I have yet to find that with the wider field shots going much beyond 15 adds any value (although with long FL I find it provides a whole new world of data to play within).  Feedback appreciated.

4 hours ago, wimvb said:

Another masterpiece. I in my turn have to agree with Paul: smooth!. Is it the integration time, the camera or the software (noise reduction) that does this?

What is causing the red in the lower left corner? I noticed that there is a similar red patch to the right of M45, so it may be part of a nebula, I guess.

Thanks for sharing.

Thanks Wim, good data helps but still noise.  Looking at the data was key for me.  Lum was good but NR on this did not work, too smooth to soon.  Looking at RGB stars and background I saw that the type of noise was more manageable. So RGB background and stars (as lum) added carefully to the lum data to tame a little then applied NR from there which resulted in a clean yet I hope, not artificial (plastic look) feel.  tried to keep the 'feel' of dust whilst being clean.  Sometimes the counterintuitive approach will work just a case of examining the data and carefully considering what you like about each channel.  Not much science other than looking, planning the trying!

There are a lot of areas of dust, dim nebulosity etc in the area.  I considered cropping that area out but then lost the feel with this framing however (see screenshot image below) all will be revealed in due course (I hope!). 

3 hours ago, Barry-Wilson said:

Another super scale combination Paddy - I never realised the blue reflection nebula was so extensive.

An even wider field including much of the Perseus Molecular Cloud over to the California Neb woud be great . . . . just arrange the weather, will you ? LOL!

Thanks Barry - I am starting to enjoy these shots but that may be about to change.  On the blue, I had seen some images that showed the blue but the data had been pushed way too far, so I set about finding it whilst trying to remain within the usable limits of the data.  Slow work but hopefully I found the right balance.

'An even wider field' - that would be ludicrous and .....oh! Wait a sec

You mean like this?  Let me see what I can do  I have M45, LBN 777, C30/B10 area out to B209 Processed at FSQ or RH FL, CA Neb will be done next.  Should be ready for final integration in a few weeks.  

I think taking a weather proofed approach is the only way I would  get to work on such projects TBH.  Thanks for comments and just be patient man I am trying.....  

3 hours ago, alan4908 said:

Very impressive Paddy - I do like the dust colours.

Alan

Thanks for comments Alan

3 hours ago, Steve 1962 said:

Woh! That is a lovely image that really shows M45 in context. I've never seen that arc of blue extending "southwards" before.

Just great.

Steve

Thanks Steve, I had seen but never without the data being 'shredded' so tried to do a tidy version - quite happy with the results.  I was surprised to be able to be quite this successful with the plan (my plans rarely work, A-Team application turned down!!)

2 hours ago, matt-c said:

I love it! On my laptop the background is a lovely dusty brown but it does look different on my mobile (not bad just different) so maybe that has something to do with the earlier comments?

I'm not sure i've ever seen m45 showing this much dust and fluff 

I'm very interested in how do you go about combining such different focal lengths?

 

I had a mare last week with an image which here looked OK but when viewed elsewhere looked hideous through colour and brightness changing.  ICC profiles (now known as I can't cope profiles) all went south on my PC for some reason.  I somehow ended up with for different ones all running after an update.  But some devices support and others don't or less so.  I can only work to what I can see and as feedback generally good I think the issues must be closed to resolved  

The dust is there but often over stretched so I just to a careful and slow approach to gently realise it.  As Paul points out the use of colour is almost as important as the lum data in releasing all that is there.

The combo approach is for me where my work is in an image like this.  I take a fully processed detail (FSQ in this case) and widefield.  I also keep the RGB and Lum for each.  Then it all gets layered up and blended quite selectively.  Matching the star size is the first requirement, in the detailed version the stars are far tighter and would look out of scale if not blended correctly. With stars blended I then look at the detail, in this case I had more than I could use so this has most but not all (c.70%) of the FSQ FL data blended into the emission area of M45.  With stars and detail balanced I then search out the best weightings from each zonal type and ensure I have presented best I can.  It is not quick and largely down to feel but I am roughly where i would like to be with this area of the processing.  If there is anything specific you would like to know please just ask and I will advise on what i can.

Thanks for comments all.  Paddy

[Horwig]

WOW, I thought I'd gone wide and deep with my humble effort, FSQ at 380 with an 1100 based camera for about 9 hours, but it pales into insignificance compared to this.

Very much in awe, thanks for sharing, and giving us inspiration to achieve better results.

 

Huw

[wimvb]

4 minutes ago, PatrickGilliland said:

[...]

Thanks Wim, good data helps but still noise.  [...] which resulted in a clean yet I hope, not artificial (plastic look) feel.  tried to keep the 'feel' of dust whilst being clean.  Sometimes the counterintuitive approach will work just a case of examining the data and carefully considering what you like about each channel.  Not much science other than looking, planning the trying!

There are a lot of areas of dust, dim nebulosity etc in the area.  I considered cropping that area out but then lost the feel with this framing however (see screenshot image below) all will be revealed in due course (I hope!). 

Thanks Barry - I am starting to enjoy these shots but that may be about to change.  On the blue, I had seen some images that showed the blue but the data had been pushed way too far, so I set about finding it whilst trying to remain within the usable limits of the data.  Slow work but hopefully I found the right balance.

'An even wider field' - that would be ludicrous and .....oh! Wait a sec

You mean like this?  Let me see what I can do  I have M45, LBN 777, C30/B10 area out to B209 Processed at FSQ or RH FL, CA Neb will be done next.  Should be ready for final integration in a few weeks.  

[...]

Thanks for comments all.  Paddy

Not at all "plastic looking", that's the real marvel here. Your method gives great results.

I like where this is going.

[PatrickGilliland]

9 hours ago, Horwig said:

WOW, I thought I'd gone wide and deep with my humble effort, FSQ at 380 with an 1100 based camera for about 9 hours, but it pales into insignificance compared to this.

Very much in awe, thanks for sharing, and giving us inspiration to achieve better results.

 

Huw

Thanks Huw - appreciate comments.  I do have advantage of 20 hours data from a dark site.  Glad it inspires, thats my fav word in this hobby if i can do that feel like my days work is done. Dropped you a suggestion on your post.  Some nice data there and hopefully it will help with a few ideas.

Paddy

9 hours ago, wimvb said:

Not at all "plastic looking", that's the real marvel here. Your method gives great results.

I like where this is going.

Thanks Wim, I do but the thought of a six panel mosaic with at least 5 separate detail images to add in is both exciting and intimidating.  Will be my first attempt on that scale but seems like the logical conclusion of the process.

Paddy

[Allinthehead]

Fantastic image Paddy. I never knew the pleiades had so much to offer.   

[ollypenrice]

Heheh, those blue 'pincers' are supposed to be faint, Paddy! Great stuff. Lovely and deep but particularly deep in terms of colour.

Super.

Olly

[PatrickGilliland]

3 hours ago, Allinthehead said:

Fantastic image Paddy. I never knew the pleiades had so much to offer.   

Thanks, neither did I so was a pleasant surprise, gave a a nudge and was all there waiting to be found.

31 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

Heheh, those blue 'pincers' are supposed to be faint, Paddy! Great stuff. Lovely and deep but particularly deep in terms of colour.

Super.

Olly

Ah, faint you say.  Another example of me not following the enclosed instructions 

The nice thing was (I felt at the time anyway) I really did not push the data, just careful and well timed (though some trial and error was required on the sequencing) adjustments and it all fell into place.  I did not push for the blue it sort of happened so just went along with it.  

I'll be back next week either very pleased or frustrated.  The was the last pane that could be published individually and stand up in its own right of a 1050 sub, 137 hours 6 pane mosaic which includes the 5 detailed hybrid type items to be added in.  Lum and 1 panel of colour ready.....

Thanks for comments.  

[wimvb]

56 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

Heheh, those blue 'pincers' are supposed to be faint, Paddy! Great stuff. Lovely and deep but particularly deep in terms of colour.

Super.

Olly

Those blue pincers and the skull like structure reminded me of General Grievous in Star Wars.

[PatrickGilliland]

26 minutes ago, wimvb said:

Those blue pincers and the skull like structure reminded me of General Grievous in Star Wars.

 

By the time i get through processing these subs I be about as healthy as him!