Jump to content

Stargazers Lounge Uses Cookies

Like most websites, SGL uses cookies in order to deliver a secure, personalised service, to provide social media functions and to analyse our traffic. Continued use of SGL indicates your acceptance of our cookie policy.

stargazine_ep28_banner.thumb.jpg.b94278254f44dd38f3f7ee896fe45525.jpg

spaceboy

Have you regretted moving away from your wide field eyepieces

Recommended Posts

As John says it's not just the view it's the quality and the way you fall in...

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no doubt as far as super wide eyepieces go ethos in particular have more to offer than just wide views but the thread isn't intended to get in to a debate about Televue eyepieces.

I know when you mention wide field and the high cost often involved with such eyepieces sometimes people like to defend their purchases. I just want to point out that I'm not knocking wide field eyepieces in anyway be they ethos, ES100°, myriad, Nagler, ES82°, etc, etc. I'm also not knocking those who choose to spend thousand on eyepieces. If it's a hobby you enjoy and you have the money then why not. 

I have made a decision to downsize my kit based on my current circumstances restricting the amount of time I'm observing. I am genuinely struggling to make up my mind on which eyepieces to let go and so posted the thread in the hope of some insight from those who have already made similar choices in the past. It has nothing to do if one eyepiece is better than another as TBH I have found every eyepiece I've owned to show me the same sky the only difference is some have tighter stars in the outer edges than others and of course some show more of the sky than others due to afov which is where I am asking what peoples thoughts are.

I appreciate that super wide eyepieces are almost a necessity in some of the larger dobs but again all I was asking was if any members have gone from wide field eyepieces to traditional 50-60° eyepieces and did they ever regret it ?

Sorry if this comes across as a little rant but it seems almost every eyepiece discussion ends up Televue related at some point. :hiding:

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope my post didn't seem like a Televue advert. I was simply trying to explain my thinking and as most eyepieces I have used are that brand they are naturally my main frame of reference.  You could substitute Delite for 62 degree eyepiece I suppose et al.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It wasn't anyone in particular Shane but I could see the thread slowly drifting towards a Televue topic. I know myself sometimes it can be quite taxing to read through every single post so start with the first 2-3 posts and the last 2-3 posts which if the thread has strayed a little off topic new posters may think they are entering a discussion about what eyepiece is recommended for wide field views. TV are great eyepiece no doubt but there are dozens of threads on how good they are and didn't feel this needed to be another.

Edited by spaceboy
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was my post that probably took the thread into territory where you didn't want it Nick. Sorry about that :unsure:

Maybe the thread title should have been "Have you regretted moving away from your wide field eyepieces ?". That would have eliminated boneheads like me who are still living with them :rolleyes2:

I hope you have found some help in framing your decisions anyway.

Edited by John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have used eyepieces from 50 degrees to 82 degrees afov and spent a while checking out in the field what I liked and didn't like before settling on a set to last for the long term.

In the end I realised from my own experience that eye relief had to be enough for glasses - I was noticing my own astigmatism without glasses and I wanted to flexibilty to use glasses or not to keep everything easy to use.

I also learned that I personally don't find very wide fields of view all that beneficial for me and I'm more interested in transmission/contrast/clarity. Certainly looking through a wide angle eyepiece at first is impressive but I know once the novelty had worn off I'm actually not taking in the periphery unless I pro-actively make myself look or notice.

I've therefore never gone for a 100 degree eyepiece, and my long term set for my dobsonian is now some 82 degree 2" eyepieces with 19mm eye relief and some 72 degree 1.25" eyepieces with 20mm eye relief. However these are quite big/heavy so I'm also accumulating some 50 degree afov eyepieces with 20mm eye relief for my smaller scope as they are smaller and light enough to put a few in my pockets for short simple sessions and I like these a lot and don't find them restrictive.

I should also add I  use an equatorial platform if I'm using high magnification or looking near the celestial equator where things are moving fast so I don't need a wide fov to follow fast moving targets.

The good thing about wanting longer eye relief is it reduces the choices and therefore makes decisions about eyepieces much easier!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, spaceboy said:

Sorry if this comes across as a little rant but it seems almost every eyepiece discussion ends up Televue related at some point.

wasnt this forum about the brilliance of Televue and Pentax XW and other eye pieces being umm how to put to politely: not up to the task? i think it is. Oh no i forgot,there are also BST Explorers ...

38 minutes ago, spaceboy said:

if any members have gone from wide field eyepieces to traditional 50-60° eyepieces and did they ever regret it ?

Yes i have,sold all Ethos,Es100 and 82deg,same fate suffered Meade 5000 series 82 deg and few others and i have been observing with ortho and erfle what basically is 45-70 deg FOV. No regrets so far and no plans of upgrading either.

Back to lurking.

Ta da

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, John said:

It was my post that probably took the thread into territory where you didn't want it Nick. Sorry about that :unsure:

Maybe the thread title should have been "Have you regretted moving away from your wide field eyepieces ?". That would have eliminated boneheads like me who are still living with them :rolleyes2:

I hope you have found some help in framing your decisions anyway.

No need to apologise John as I know members can be passionate about their TV eyepieces and rightly so given the cost of them. I have just seen so many topics taken over by that passion in the past and on this occasion I need to stay focused before I sell something I might regret. I recently sold my Maxvision 24mm and I already regret that so I got to get it right this time. I have updated the title as your probably right in saying I didn't choose the best word for the thread.

I am finding some helpful advice from the thread thanks John. :)

Edited by spaceboy
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps it's not about regrets. Passing a bit of good kit on to someone who is ready to use it to enrich the experience of life is all the more satisfying when you yourself still value what that bit of kit has to offer. I guess if you're prepared to pass something on, it means you're ready to do so.

Besides, it never needs to be a final decision; having done without, one may gain the knowledge and experience that leads to re-acquisition - you just figure out that you (now) prefer what you previously used. Many have shared such experiences here and continue to do so.

I recall posting a question concerning what type(s) of eyepieces people would use if a certain range of widefield eyepiece wasn't available - the implication being that those who took an interest in that topic were those who were inclined to use said type of eyepiece. Quite a few members took the time to share with us the fact that they wouldn't use widefield eyepieces in the first place, and their reasons. I was then, as I am now, grateful for their freely related insights.

:happy11:

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have focal lengths across the board in both widefield and 50 degree or less.  During the summer when I got my alt/az mount for my 120ST I used Plossls and purely because they were light and also I could use them with the Baader turret.  I spent the summer months with this but did find the 6mm Ortho hard going as I'd lose the view switching from 10mm so I switched to use an ES82 6.7mm to cover this and it worked much better. 

However, this is with a short focal length scope...  I think I'd struggle for sure with the 12" dob and no tracking to be using Plossls and orthos with focal lengths of 15mm or less and the view is already narrow.  For the dob I chose the TV Delos line for the comfort but mainly because they offer really high performance with a wide view... having used them a few times now you'd have to prise them from my cold dead hands.  I really like the 82 degree ES series for the 11mm focal length and lower despite being a little short on eye relief I would miss them now as they give great views particularly with the refractors as they perform much better imho with slower scopes.  For pure performance though with the refractor nothing beats those orthos and Plossls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will be using manual AZ mounts more than driven so FOV does help out a lot. I should have maybe pointed out from the off that I have a coma corrector so even in my relatively fast f/5 Newtonian almost 95-98%% of the view is tidy. So in lower end eyepieces at least, I get as much useable fov in a 60° eyepiece as many would have in an 82° eyepiece with out use of a CC. The problem I have at the moment is the weather is really being a complete pain. It's starting off clear as a bell then no sooner I have an opportunity to get the scope out the clouds are rolling in. Even when it is clear the seeing has been pitiful. Despite being stored in a cool room the scope takes too long to cool so I can't cloud dodge and leaving my kit out is not an option. I did manage a very short session the other day but no where near long enough to make a comfortable decision. The session wasn't a total waste though as I did notice another phenomenon between quickly swapping out wide field and "standard" fov eyepieces but that's in another thread.

We all know how it could turn in to months before the skies are clear and moon free and why I personally find SGL is so useful as you can ask others opinions during that down time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As the replys have shown, there's large variations of answers, just like any other hobbies:smiley:

For people enjoy (X)wide field view very much, they will regrett moving away, that should be pretty obvious, IMHO.

I'm kind of odd bird with my preferences, weight and size of an eyepiece is among top priorities, together with acceptable optical quality, observing only on-axis, because my understanding is that there're more off-axis aberrations (CA, astigmatism, FC, coma) in an optical chain off-axis (that-s why it's named for, right:smiley:), a wide field eyepiece is very useful for star-hopping (no goto can get ab object dead centerred, you'll need to move around, maybe to use a brighter star to get best focus e..g). but I don't get wow effect for the pure wide field view, not from stock 45° eyepiece to 70°, and not from 70° to 84°, optical quality aside, my brain just doesn't start space-walking:BangHead:

I can see 100° FOV is very useful for manual large dobs, but its bulk and size has its drawback too, such as balance issues, my wild guess is that there's a reason some big dob users using only one eyepiece for a whole night. But if you enjoy the wide field view, then it is worth the cost, and you'll regrett parting it.  If I were to get a bigger dob, my solution will be a tracking platform instead wider EPs, since tracking gives much more relax observing, both for night sky and solar.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, YKSE said:

I can see 100° FOV is very useful for manual large dobs, but its bulk and size has its drawback too, such as balance issues, my wild guess is that there's a reason some big dob users using only one eyepiece for a whole night. But if you enjoy the wide field view, then it is worth the cost, and you'll regrett parting it.  If I were to get a bigger dob, my solution will be a tracking platform instead wider EPs, since tracking gives much more relax observing, both for night sky and solar.

By using narrow field eyepieces you would miss out on a great deal of what makes using a large Dob special. 

However this is taking the thread to a place that Nick has already said he has no interest in hearing about so I will leave it........

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, I don't regret it. I had a mix of eyepiece designs and brands ranging in FOV from 42° to 70°, but none of them were of premium quality (think: Orion, BST, GSO, Meade, etc). Not crappy, but not top shelf either. I wanted to get a "set" of premium glass, and I decided to purchase some Tele Vue Plössls. I am not a big fan of wide FOVs - I personally find them a bit distracting. I like being corralled into the object of interest. I also have a very high tolerance for tight eye relief - so this was the perfect solution! Since 8mm is the smallest TV I could get, I also picked up a 6mm Fujiyama Ortho to give me high power when the skies permit. No regrets - I've been observing with my new set for 6 months now and not once have I wanted to dig through the boxes and pull out my GSO SuperView! :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I changed down from 5No 82 deg Ep’s to 2No 72deg and 1 68deg Ep..  I had some nice 50deg plossl’s and I changed those too for 50deg Ep’s with better ER in the shorter FL’s

I made this decision on two factors, ease of use and enjoyment factor.

My eye’s don’t appear to like 82deg (not tried wider, couldn’t see the point!), I was never really comfortable, always felt like I was straining and ultimately not really enjoying the limited observing opportunity (baby, clouds, long work hours)  

It occurred to me, rather simplistically I suppose, that I enjoyed 20mm of ER and I enjoyed being relaxed at the EP so my EP’s need to compliment that.

So, in that context I convinced myself that it didn’t matter how much of a field of view I could see, or how good it was, if I wasn’t enjoying it or comfortable whilst viewing, because of other factors such as tight eye relief…  

Put simply, it doesn’t matter how much you can see, if what you can see doesn’t bring you an enjoyable experience..!

 

I now have some fantastic 50deg 20mm ER EP’s that I love using from 5mm to 32mm and often I find myself leaving the 72deg 20mm ER Ep’s in the box, and I didn’t think that would be..  Don’t get me wrong I use the 72deg’s on all deep sky objects I can, they work just better, but it’s a bind getting the eye guard in the right spot for me to get the full experience.

However for bright/solar system/white light the 50degs win almost everytime..

So no… absolutely no regrets in the 82 to 50deg swap… I enjoy what I see and I don’t feel it’s a struggle to use them.  Everything I want in an EP, and an observing session.

Don't know if that helps, it such an individual orientated question.

Ta

Fozzie

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Fozzie said:

It occurred to me, rather simplistically I suppose, that I enjoyed 20mm of ER and I enjoyed being relaxed at the EP so my EP’s need to compliment that.

Fozzie

Oh, yes, viewing comfort:thumbsup:, that's something important I forgot to mention.

Not only the ER contributes to it, the amount spherical aberration of exit pupil(SAEP) in an eyeiece has its share too. The more SAEP, the more strained our eyes will be to compensate it (for not seeing kidney bean), thereby uncomfortable viewing in long period of time. all eyepieces have some amount of SAEP, the wider FOV, the more SAEP will be there (maybe not very linearly proportiional to AFOV though). which I think we can deduct from reading many posts on the forums: there're quite some complains about EPs with short ER, there're complains about not comfortable viewing of very wide FOV(even with decent ER), but there're few complains about comfort of FOV 40°-70° with good ER.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 08/12/2016 at 11:11, Mr Spock said:

I sold my 22mm and 17mm T4 Naglers last summer. Never thought I would. I replaced them with a 22mm LVW and I'm enjoying that a lot more.

That's interesting Michael, what is it about the LVW that you prefer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hard to miss something you never had, i did not have the need for widefield only had a max of about 60 degree and more than happy with my Vixen/Antares ep`s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 08/12/2016 at 11:46, Highburymark said:

I'm just selling my go-to set up which means all my observing in the future will be on manual alt az mounts. Size and weight of eps is becoming more of an issue so the Delite range looks very attractive - but my main concern would be the smaller fov in a non-driven mount - the nudge factor at high mags might mean I regret trading in wider fov eps

I know it's sacrilege to say it but I just don't "get" all the raving about Tele Vue eyepieces. 

I have never used their Ethos range and at the prices they cost I never would. But I have used several Naglers, Plossls and most recently a 5mm Delite which I bought in a Black Friday sale-.)

I returned the Delite after one session for a refund, (and full marks to TH for their prompt and attentive service). The Delite, to my eyes, offered me nothing that my Pentax XLs,Vixen LVWs and Morpheus units didn't also show just as well. I bought it as a replacement for my Pentax XL 5.2mm which I had stupidly let go, and following abortive adverts trying to acquire a used XW5, I bought the Delite on impulse.

Don't get me wrong, it's a nice enough eyepiece but I just don't think it was worth £200 - and that's with 20% off in the sale! I found it cosmetically underwhelming, if not actually ugly, and much prefer the older but to me very stylish appearance of the Pentax and Vixen LVW ranges. The Morpheus range wouldn't win any beauty contests either, but they are optically superb at much lower cost new and used than TV or Pentax.

My XL 10.5 Pentax barlowed with the 2.25x Baader barlow showed at least as much as the Delite, with at least as good contrast, cooler colour tone (which I prefer) and slightly better sharpness, and a bigger field of view. 

The only TV ep I have ever really really liked was a Nagler T6 13mm which I thought was outstanding.

It seems to me that many who love TV so much use fast Dobs and Newts, scope's whose inherent optical properties need highly edge corrected eyepieces. And as I don't use anything faster than F7.5, I don't need to pay outlandish prices for features I don't need:-).

Getting back to the OP's question, I came late to wider fields, and although I've used and liked several UWA 80+ deg eps, including the T6 13mm, I personally find 65-75 degrees to be my preferred sweet spot range. I have got used to wider fields, and apart from double star observing I wouldn't choose to go back to narrow sub 50 degree views.

So, I now feel pretty settled with Pentax XL 7mm, LVW 8mm, XL 10.5mm, Morpheus 14mm, XL 21mm, LVW 22mm and ES34mm 68. I also have BCOs in 6, 10 and 18mm, my favourite being the 18mm which is scarily sharp.

I will probably let either the 21XL or LVW22 go as they are so close, but not until I've done more detailed comparisons..both are superbly sharp eps and the 21XL definitely shows much less field curvature than the XW20 did.

I do heartily support anyone in choosing what suits their eyes and scope's best though, and am really grateful for all the great learning I have benefitted from on forums like this one:-). Each to their own as they say?

Dave

Edited by F15Rules
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

I just don't "get" all the raving about Tele Vue eyepieces. 

 

8 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

The only TV ep I have ever really really liked was a Nagler T6 which I thought was outstanding.

???!!!!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, estwing said:

 

???!!!!

He's ONLY found the one TV EP outstanding. that's how I'm reading it.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Stu said:

That's interesting Michael, what is it about the LVW that you prefer?

LVWs are really comfortable to use. There's no trying to fit the field in by moving your eye around, there's no black-outs, kidney beaning and other 'phasey' artefacts. These are all distractions which make observing less relaxing.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that TV eyepieces aren't good, just that I don't think that they are worth the new prices asked for them. I see views through other eyepieces that on axis (which is where I observe!), many other eyepieces are just as good -for a LOT less cost!

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the key selling point to TV EP's is that they work really well in very fast scopes, so slow scopes like mine and Dave's may show cheaper EP's comparing well.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm leaving this as its turning into a tv thread as the OP said he didn't want it to

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.