Jump to content

Autoguiding

TheShape

By TheShape
in Getting Started With Imaging

Recommended Posts

TheShape

TheShape

Posted
Posted

Right so I have just about selected (but not yet purchased) all things I need for Astrophotography.

I did like the look (and reviews) of the SkyWatcher SynGuider as I DO NOT want to be connecting up a laptop or PC to my scope. I love the fact you can use the Synguider as a 'standalone' product, but not many on here seem to like it, and sell it on. Are there other standalone autoguiders like it, or must I use a laptop and another kind of guider?

Your recommendations and valued knowledge is once again being called upon by The Shape!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ollypenrice

ollypenrice

Posted
Posted

The standalones get a mixed press. For some they work easily, for some they don't. I have a guest here at the moment who uses the Lacerta system and I've been helping her with an image shot in a C8 with DSLR. The guiding looks good to me.

I fully understand your preference for not having a laptop in the field but I have to say that it is not going to make your life easier...

Olly

Link to comment
Share on other sites
simmo39

simmo39

Posted
Posted

Hi, Im a synguider user and find it works for me, I had problems setting it up and learning it little quirks but now I just plug and play with it and away it goes. Its biggest problem is that you cant dither with it but I have got into the habbit of after every 4 to 6 exposures I reset it and that provides a sort of dither. Im sure that computer controlled guide cameras are better but Im still not keen on having to drag my laptop out into the cold night. Think its horses for courses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
StuartJPP

StuartJPP

Posted
Posted

I recently picked up a Lacerta MGEN 2nd hand for an absolute bargain price, even though I use a (2nd hand) netbook in the field. I have only had a "play" with the MGEN so far but it does work quite well from what I have tried and of course from others reporting. I intend to use it when I am travelling light.

I did previously own an LVI Smartguider 2 but didn't get on with it. It was tricky to get things running with no "live-view" and I just didn't like it.

You can't quite beat having a decent laptop in the field, it goes way beyond just guiding, so if you absolutely don't want a netbook/laptop then you are limiting your choices.

Things I use on the netbook:
Guiding - PHD2 - nice big graphs to check for issues, log file of the night's session.
Mount Control - Cartes du Ciel, Stellarium/StellariumScope.
Image framing - Astrophotography Tool (APT) - can continue a previous session with Goto++.
Image capture - Astrophotography Tool - nice to review on a "large" screen rather than the diminutive camera LCD.
Focus - Astrophotography Tool.
Dithering - Astrophotography Tool.
PoleMaster - Polar alignment.
SharpCap - Polar Alignment - also occasional planetary.
PixInsight - Can do preliminary focus and stretching checks.

The above is not exhaustive and of course not all necessary. Dithering, and framing are only recent additions. The key is that you are not physically touching the mount/camera at all for any operation, something that Olly said and it stuck with me. It has taken me a while to get where I am but I doubt I would have figured out my differential flex issue with just a stand-alone guider.

My choice in order of preference would be:
Netbook + Guide Camera (not an option if you don't want a netbook/laptop in the field)
Lacerta MGen (expensive)
Synguider (looks competent)
LVI Smartguider 2 (least attractive to me from my own experience)

Good luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Zakalwe

Zakalwe

Posted
Posted

I'm no expert, but from what Ive read the Synguider seems to need a bit of an expert hand to get the best out of it (or indeed to get it to work), which is sort of contradictory.


Why are you so set against using a laptop or tablet to autoguide? There's a reason why the vast majority of imagers don't use standalone guiders...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
steppenwolf

steppenwolf

Posted
Posted

You could indeed use a SynGuider - they certainly can be made to work but they are much harder to use than a conventional guide camera and Off Axis Guider or Guide 'Scope. Astro-photography offers plenty of challenges but this is one that can be obviated by accepting that a laptop outside with you makes soooo much sense for so many reasons!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
cjdawson

cjdawson

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, TheShape said:

Right so I have just about selected (but not yet purchased) all things I need for Astrophotography.

I did like the look (and reviews) of the SkyWatcher SynGuider as I DO NOT want to be connecting up a laptop or PC to my scope. I love the fact you can use the Synguider as a 'standalone' product, but not many on here seem to like it, and sell it on. Are there other standalone autoguiders like it, or must I use a laptop and another kind of guider?

Your recommendations and valued knowledge is once again being called upon by The Shape!

I've been using a SynGuider for the last couple of years, however....   I've just given up on it as more trouble than it's worth.  Let me put some perspective on this for you.    I too bought into the idea of not having a laptop at my scope.  My whole setup revolves around that idea.  To make controlling the scope easier, I have a SkyFi and I use that in combination with an iPad running SkySafari Pro 5, this gives me a planetarium that I can control the scope from.  Make life really convenient.

For imaging, I have a Canon 70D DSLR and I use and intervalometer to take a sequence of images, using the mirror lock and the bulb setting, works great.

For guiding I have a SynGuider II attached to a SkyWatcher ST-80.  Mounted piggy back on top of my meade LX-90.

 

Everything is great... Liveview on the camera to help with focussing. iPad for so that I don't need to use the scope handbox to choose targets.  And The Synguider to do the autoguiding work.

The setup sounds good on paper, and when everything is working, you can get good results.

 

However...

The main problem that I have been struggling with for the last 12 months (apart from the clouds) has been aquiring a guide star.  This is where the SynGuider falls apart.  Why?  It's a combination of things, let me run through them...

1. Small CCD Chip.  This means that the camera in the SynGuider has a small FoV.  It can be hard to find a useful guide star.

2. Not very senestive.  I've had trouble finding a guide star.  A few weeks ago I could not get a lock on any of the Pleiades, the brightest star is mag 2.8.    (Have managed to get a lock on one of the Pleiades before, so it's touch and go)

3. Screen is dim and cannot be adjusted.  This was done deliberately, so as to protect your night vision.  However, night vision isn't really a requirement for astro imaging.  It's the camera that needs to see, not you ;-)

4. Screen is small.  This makes reading the figures on the screen hard.  Especially when there's dew about as it can collect and make you mis read the screen.

5. Cannot see the full field of view.  You get a small black and red representation of the FoV.  This can help with focusing, however, it also seems to show just how temperamental the SynGuider is.

6. Cannot alter the position of the screen.  Think about this one for a few moments.  The screen is on the back of the SynGuider.  When attached to my ST-80, that means it's pointing in the opposite direction to the scope objective.  To properly view the screen that means you need to get your head underneath the scope.   I hope you are flexible.  This can cause a big issue when trying to image near the Zenith.

 

All the above reasons are why I decided to give up on the SynGuider.

So I gave in and just bought a laptop and camera for auto guiding.

Here's my replacement for the SynGuider....

i5 windows 10 laptop with 8Gb Ram and 256Gb SSD (10 hour battery life - alledgedly, I don't intend putting that to the test)

StarLight Express Superstar (Mono) guide camera.

 

This has shown promise to completely change the way that I work with my telescope.  Let me explain the difference in detail...

1. Installed Ascom on the laptop (as well as the driver for the SuperStar).    This will be the hub of controlling the scope and cameras.

2. Installed PHD2 - This will be my autoguiding program.  It works with the Auto guider without a problem.  I did a quick test the other evening, and was able to get an image of a mag 7 star without any trouble. In fact, the scope wasn't tracking so there would have been star trailing to content with.  This would not have been something that I would have even attempted with the SynGuider.    The SuperStar is a much more sensetive camera with a much bigger field of view.  I'm hoping that going forward, I'll never has trouble finding a star to guide on again.

3. Installed Carte Du Ciel.  Out with the iPad and SkySafari.  I've tried WifiScope to allow my iPad to control the scope through the laptop, it works, but it's not as good (not all the controls are supported on my driver)   There's options here, using Cart Du Ciel means that I can guide through the handbox instead of the ST-4 input, but I'm going to try using the ST-4 input first, with the mount as a backup.  This is because my scope is older and I'm not sure that it supports the guiding commands properly.

4. Backyard EOS.  Forget the intervalometer, this program looks fantastic.  I can use this to control the camera to take a sequence of images  and adjust the settings of the camera for astro imaging right there without touching the scope.  In addition there are tools to help with focussing and making life much easier.   It can even control the electric focusser on my scope.

 

There as other things to take into consideration too.  Using a 15" screen, it feels like luxury when compared against trying to aquire a guide star from a contortionists position struggling to see a 2" screen on the synguider.  It's still luxury when compared to using the flipout screen of the 70D.

I have yet to try my new setup for real, but my impressions of it so far from my daytime and cloudy evening tests are that it will make all the difference.  I'm looking forward to trying it out for real.

 

What I'm saying is that when you look into it, the laptop provides much much more than guiding alone.  If you can get it working well. I think it'll make a fantastic addition to your imaging setup.  Of course there is also something else to take into account.  If I decide that I want more sensetivity from the camera - I can always change the camera.  If I want to use a different imaging camera, I can change that too.     If a new guiding technique comes out.  (For example the SynGuider doesn't dither) just an upgrade of PHD2 or switch to a different guiding program and you get it.  No messing, no expensive hardware replacement  (for a software change anyway).

 

Before spending 200-300 on a SynGuider, it might be worth considering all the things that I mentioned, and look at the bigger picture.

 

Granted that getting power to run the laptop all night might be an issue. There are solutions, for example, I have a leisure battery to power my scope with more than enough power for everything.  I've got an inverter so can power the laptop from that.  I'd prefer to use a 12v power supply for the laptop, if I can find one that will work off the battery. (I'm sure it's possible)   I do not intend running the laptop from it's battery alone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gina

Gina

Posted
Posted

You can pick up second hand laptops for very little money from various sources online - eg. Amazon and Morgan Computers which give you a guarantee.  With new ones you tend to be limited to Win 10 which some people have problems with whereas second hand refurbished can have Win 7 which works very well with all the usual astro software.  I haven't had any problems with "used" laptops.  I wouldn't use an expensive laptop outdoors and there's no need to - a low spec one will quite suffice.  I even used a Netbook for a while but laptops tend to be cheaper and better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 year later...
Sun

Sun

Posted
Posted

COMMENT & REVIEW: THE LACERTA AUTOGUIDER - BEST IN CLASS? In principle and in practice I like the simplicity and elegance (in the scientific usage of the word) of stand-alone autoguiding. I tried the Synguider (= Nexguide) and even made right-angle viewing adapters for it to solve one of the several problems (listed in this thread) with this kit. I too sold it on. I now have the Lacerta M-Gen stand alone autoguider. It's expensive but very very VERY good - an exemplary piece of kit in every respect. In fact I would say it is probably by a long way the best in class - you get what you pay for, as with most things! Well designed, well made, reliable, and very easy to use. The screen is on the back of the hand paddle so you can orientate it wherever you like. It's VERY sensitive, and is designed around the standard Skywatcher 9x50 finder (screw the eyepiece off and attach the M-Gen camera). So you are not lashing out on a bulky and expensive guidescope. The field of view is big enough that there's a guide star in (in my experience) anywhere you point it so you don't need to buy, and fiddle with, adjustable guide-rings. And you can use a solar filter and invert the image and guide on sunspots (though I haven't tried this). I cannot think why it's not more popular: probably re the American market, it's just not known and I don't know if the firm has a USA distributor (it's made in Hungary).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.