My basket, talk to me at the checkoot......

[TheShape]

So........here is my basket. I have yet to buy the Canon camera I need (but it's in the pipeline).

I want to do Astrophotography but its a 50/50 affair of simply observing too. I don't need to shop all in one place (the basket shown here is for illustration purposes), BUT I do want to know if theres a happy medium of Astrophotography and simply observing with the same scope.

So meet me in the queue at the checkout and advise me on why I should/should not buy this kit.

[LukeSkywatcher]

You could save a bit of cash and not buy the Skywatcher power tank. Its a tad expensive. You can get a similar size (17 Amp) or BIGGER leisure battery for less from other places (on the main street......... Halfords i THINK).

[TheShape]

1 minute ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

You could save a bit of cash and not buy the Skywatcher power tank. Its a tad expensive. You can get a similar size (17 Amp) leisure battery for less from other places (on the main street (Halfords i THINK).

Hi Paul, yeah mate, thats my thinking too, I know I need a PSU for the mount, just added this as its 'on my shopping list' :-)

[Putaendo Patrick]

Or you could spend more on a power supply. In terms of weight and durability the Tracer LiPo range are very good: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tracer-Lithium-Polymer-Battery-BP2548/dp/B005WJ6ECW

My only misgiving is a 200mm reflector for astrophotography. A slight wind can cause these to vibrate regardless of the mount, and thus they tend to perform better in a protected observatory.

[Floater]

... 'talk to me at the checkoot' - 

obviously must be Scotland, but where?

??

[newbie alert]

Once you start to image you will do less observing...at least then you see the targets in colour

[LukeSkywatcher]

3 minutes ago, newbie alert said:

Once you start to image you will do less observing...at least then you see the targets in colour

After hours of post processing on the computer.

[TheShape]

2 minutes ago, newbie alert said:

Once you start to image you will do less observing...at least then you see the targets in colour

Yes you are probably right there, however, is the scope still Ok for doing both, or would you put it back on the shelf and get one better suited for Astrophotography (but still must be good for observing)

[LukeSkywatcher]

Just now, TheShape said:

Yes you are probably right there, however, is the scope still Ok for doing both, or would you put it back on the shelf and get one better suited for Astrophotography (but still must be good for observing)

Imaging really isnt too much to do with the scope. The most important part of the setup for imaging is the mount. As a purely visual type of guy, i cant say if the mount you are thinking of is good or not. Ive seen the words neq5/neq6 mentioned for imaging. I really cant advise though.

[ChrisLX200]

If you take the trouble to set it up correctly the mount will be up to the job. What you don't have in there is any method of autoguiding - and that will be necessary.

ChrisH

 

[TheShape]

29 minutes ago, ChrisLX200 said:

If you take the trouble to set it up correctly the mount will be up to the job. What you don't have in there is any method of autoguiding - and that will be necessary.

ChrisH

 

But I see so many amazing photos on here saying they were taken with no guiding. Now I'm confused 

Also (shows I know very little) I thought the goto mount kept track of an object once located. 

[ChrisLX200]

You may be able to get away with unguided tracking for (relatively) short exposures if your polar alignment is good, but beyond a couple of minutes you will need to correct the tracking - and the way to do that is with an autoguider.

ChrisH

[Uplooker]

10 minutes ago, TheShape said:

But I see so many amazing photos on here saying they were taken with no guiding. Now I'm confused 

That depends on the mount. For the ones that are doing long exposure AP the mounts are in excess of 2 or times your total budget.

So yes, you do need to autoguide - period.

People are correct when they say the 200P will be affected by the wind, it will but you can get away with it. There is always room for improvement.

Personally I think that you could do AP and visual with the 200P, however once you get everything running right for AP you will loath the fact that you need to break it all down to do visual. Then, you will need to get verything tuned to do AP. I can tell you its a nighmare.

Have a dedicated AP and visual rig. Why not get a Dob so you can do visual while the AP is running?

[Davey-T]

Unguided success depends to some extent on the scope focal length, a 50mm camera lens will do quite long unguided images a 2500mm focal length SCT won't do squat.

Also mass produced mounts tend to be very variable in their ability to image unguided so may require a certain amount of fettling to get the best from them.

Dave

[ChrisLX200]

The difficulty here is trying cover both AP and Visual astronomy with a single scope - there has to be big compromises somewhere. Ideally, you want a small OTA for AP - you get a bigger FOV with a shorter focal length and the scope itself is easoer to handle (track and guide). So a 130PDS would be a better bet for that. On the other hand the 200PDS would be much the better instrument for visual use, at the expense of being more tricky to track with the required accuracy for photographic use. I still think the 200PDS is a useful compromise but you will have to work harder to make it work, and autoguiding will be part of that.

ChrisH

[gnomus]

8 hours ago, TheShape said:

Yes you are probably right there, however, is the scope still Ok for doing both, or would you put it back on the shelf and get one better suited for Astrophotography (but still must be good for observing)

I think you might find that the idea of 'one scope to rule them all' simply does not apply.  Many of us have ended up with multiple scopes for different uses.  

Whilst the mount will 'GOTO' and track reasonably well, you cannot rely on it alone if you want to do longer exposures.  If you are going to keep doing AP you will end up guiding.  Even a mount like the Mesu 200 (which currrently retails at around £5200) needs to be guided.  Note that the longer the focal length of the telescope, the more difficult it is to have accurate tracking.  My suggestion on your other thread for the ED80 was based partly on the fact that its focal length is only 600mm and this goes down to 510mm when reduced.  Your Newtonian is around double that.  You may be surprised about how little 'magnification' you need for many DSOs.  For example, classic targets now coming into play like M31 (Andromeda Galaxy) and M42 (Orion Nebula) are huge.   Even with the ED80 at 510 mm, you might struggle to get them to fit on your camera sensor.   (My current 'widefield' scope has a focal length of only 350 mm).  I would recommend that you have a play here - http://astronomy.tools/calculators/field_of_view/  Go into 'Imaging Mode' and play around with different scope, camera and object combinations.  

If you do get into AP you may find that there are considerable advantages in keeping the camera attached to the scope, thus leaving no room for your eyepiece.  Someone here, or on your other thread, suggested the idea of having an ED80 for your AP and a stand-alone Dob for your visual observing.  That is not a bad idea.   The 200P Dobsonian plus ED80 is not much more than your original budget.  And don't rule out the ED80 for visual work too.  There will be lots of objects that will be wonderful in it (the Pleiades and Beehive clusters spring to mind).    

Lastly, I cannot recommend highly enough the book that has been mentioned before.  I think this would repay its cost in saving you going down one or two blind alleys.  http://nightskyimages.co.uk/making_every_photon_count.htm

Good luck

Steve

[TheShape]

Cheers for this. Looks like the Skywatcher ed80 ds pro is now winning. Love that link for the fov calculator :-) 

The book make every photon count will be published on payday. I'm a divorced (devoted) dad of 3 boys, and with Christmas coming up, every penny counts, not just photons ;-) 

[newbie alert]

21 hours ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

After hours of post processing on the computer.

Live view on the back of the camera is in colour..you dont have to process any image..especially the bright ones

[newbie alert]

22 hours ago, TheShape said:

Yes you are probably right there, however, is the scope still Ok for doing both, or would you put it back on the shelf and get one better suited for Astrophotography (but still must be good for observing)

You mount is perfect...im not really up on the skywatchers but  they have a decent aperture..and very fast...so yes should suit both...

[rockystar]

21 hours ago, TheShape said:

Cheers for this. Looks like the Skywatcher ed80 ds pro is now winning. Love that link for the fov calculator :-) 

The book make every photon count will be published on payday. I'm a divorced (devoted) dad of 3 boys, and with Christmas coming up, every penny counts, not just photons ;-) 

don't know if it's still available, but I did spot this book in the classifieds in the last day or two

[gnomus]

There have been one or two ED80s in the classifieds too.  

[ollypenrice]

On 18/11/2016 at 23:22, LukeSkywatcher said:

After hours of post processing on the computer.

Enjoyable and creative hours. That's the whole point of doing it - for me.

Olly

[wimvb]

Something that hasn't come up yet and which may be of importance if you live north of say 50 deg, is the sw eq6 altitude adjustment. You may want to check this out.

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p7490_Vimech-EQ6-Wedge-fuer-einfachere-Einstellung-der-Polhoehe-und-mehr-Stabilitaet.html

Otoh, if you need one, then the sw az-eq6 becomes an alternative, in terms of cost.

As for the coma corrector, the baader generally gets better reviews.

An alternative to the 200pds would be the smaller 130pds (or 150pds), which would leave some room in your budget for a guiding setup. The shorter fl of the smaller scopes will make tracking somewhat easier, as already mentioned in this thread.

If you're completely new to AP, I would leave guiding out of the equation for the first year. Getting to know your setup first, and trying to squeeze every last drop (photon) out of it, will make the move to guiding easier. Not that I'm saying that guiding is difficult, it's just one more thing to learn and get right. Doing everything at once may result in spending half a night setting up, just to see clouds roll in.

Cheers,

[Dave In Vermont]

"A happy medium" of visual v. imaging, eh? Okay - try this:

Video-Astrophotography.

Less expensive (usually) & immediate results (maybe a 15sec. delay). Can even be done with your poor, freezing telescope breathing the icy winds blowing off the moors - while you sit inside your warm nest and watch what it is seeing on your chosen screen.

Roll 'em!

Dave

[ollypenrice]

1 hour ago, wimvb said:

Something that hasn't come up yet and which may be of importance if you live north of say 50 deg, is the sw eq6 altitude adjustment. You may want to check this out.

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p7490_Vimech-EQ6-Wedge-fuer-einfachere-Einstellung-der-Polhoehe-und-mehr-Stabilitaet.html

Otoh, if you need one, then the sw az-eq6 becomes an alternative, in terms of cost.

As for the coma corrector, the baader generally gets better reviews.

An alternative to the 200pds would be the smaller 130pds (or 150pds), which would leave some room in your budget for a guiding setup. The shorter fl of the smaller scopes will make tracking somewhat easier, as already mentioned in this thread.

If you're completely new to AP, I would leave guiding out of the equation for the first year. Getting to know your setup first, and trying to squeeze every last drop (photon) out of it, will make the move to guiding easier. Not that I'm saying that guiding is difficult, it's just one more thing to learn and get right. Doing everything at once may result in spending half a night setting up, just to see clouds roll in.

Cheers,

That's a good product for the EQ6.

Can't agree on guiding, though. Don't try it on the first night but by the second I'd want to be working through it...

Olly