Which One?

[Corkeyno2]

So I've been looking at some 12 inch telescopes but am really inexperienced in knowing which one to buy. I have a price range from about £500 to £2000 because I have a metric ton of Lego in my loft from when I was a kid. Also a 7 seat car so transportation shouldn't be too much of a problem. Has anyone got any ideas?

Thanks,

Corkey

[CraigT82]

I guess it all depends on what you want to do with it?  Or you purely a visual observer or do you want to capture images? or a bit of both?  If you're after a 12" scope i guess you're more interested in the visual side of things?

A 12 inch scope is really either going to be a dob or an SCT (or maybe a 12"newt on an EQ or other form of alt-az mount):

 A 12" dob will be a good all round visual instrument, capable of showing a lot of detail on the planets and moon and also capable of showing you thousands and thousands of deep sky objects, how well it shows you them will depend on how dark the skies are where you will be doing your observing (applies to any scope!).

A 12" SCT can be a great visual instrument for planetary/lunar and deep sky (as long as you plan your observing around objects that will fit into the FoV) but it could also be put to good use for planetary and lunar imaging... not so much deep sky imaging but it's possible.

A 12" newt on an EQ mount sort of gives you the best of both worlds... visual observing of planets and lunar and relatively wide field views of almost all deep sky objects, with a bit of imaging thrown in too if you fancy it. It'll have to be a big burly mount mind you, EQ6 minimum.

 

[Timebandit]

50 minutes ago, Corkeyno2 said:

So I've been looking at some 12 inch telescopes but am really inexperienced in knowing which one to buy. I have a price range from about £500 to £2000 because I have a metric ton of Lego in my loft from when I was a kid. Also a 7 seat car so transportation shouldn't be too much of a problem. Has anyone got any ideas?

Thanks,

Corkey

 

If you want a great mass produced best bang for buck telescope. Then the skywatcher 300 is the one to go for , lots of aperture so great on DSO and also good on planetary and lunar. And you will have money left over from your 2k budget for some nice delos or nagler eyepieces to make a great set up

If you want the rolls Royce of scopes then it has to be the Orion Optics uk 1/10 pv VX 12 this will have a light aluminium tube , nice focuser and a great 1/10 mirror so optical wise probably one of the best 12" reflectors on the market. 

So the choice is yours probably the 12" is best on a Dob mount, but I think some people do use them on the eq6 type heavy duty type mounts 

I hope the above helps☺

[wimvb]

Why 12 inch?

Depending on what you want to do with it, the scope may not be the more important part of a setup.

For visual, bigger is better. But as stated before, they go best with dark skies. And a bigger scope will only give good views when paired with a sturdy mount.

For AP, the mount is much more important than the scope, and you would be better off "converting" those lego blocks into a solid mount.

Just my € 0.02

[Corkeyno2]

Just now, wimvb said:

Why 12 inch?

Depending on what you want to do with it, the scope may not be the more important part of a setup.

For visual, bigger is better. But as stated before, they go best with dark skies. And a bigger scope will only give good views when paired with a sturdy mount.

For AP, the mount is much more important than the scope, and you would be better off "converting" those lego blocks into a solid mount.

Just my € 0.02

I was looking for a dob, so I don't think the base will be wobbly

[CraigT82]

3 minutes ago, Corkeyno2 said:

I was looking for a dob, so I don't think the base will be wobbly

Ah OK! So I guess it all depends on how much you want to spend? You can get a plethora of scopes in the £500-2000 range, especially if you're not averse to buying something second hand.

If I had £2k to spend on a 12" dob, my first phone call would be to David Lukehurst.

[wimvb]

9 minutes ago, Corkeyno2 said:

I was looking for a dob, so I don't think the base will be wobbly

That clarifies it. For purely visual, don't forget quality eyepieces.

Good luck

[LukeSkywatcher]

For 2K you could have one of these:

http://www.sumerianoptics.com/products/alkaid/

A few people here own them and love them. I'm guessing they are much lighter than a standard 12" Dob. Might be waiting a while though. I believe they are handmade and theres a bit of a waiting list.

[wimvb]

And more portable it seems. Easier to take to a dark site or on vacation.

[LukeSkywatcher]

Just now, wimvb said:

And more portable it seems. Easier to take to a dark site or on vacation.

I'm not sure but i think the bulk of the scope all fits into the box which makes up the base. Not sure about the truss arms.

[rockystar]

Did you not fancy that Meade Lightbridge on Astro Buy&Sell? I'd have snapped his hand off for that money, if i'd had it.

[Charic]

I have wished for some time now for a 12"  solid tube Skyliner to come my way, simply  to compare alongside my 8" to assess the gain,  but It seems I  may have  talked my way out of it this week?
The  8"  is a great scope ( almost took mine out tonight, but its oh-so cold, freezing,  and I've been feeling cold all day, even with the heaters on, plus the Moon is out tonight, so gave up, gave in and gave it a miss!
 
Further  reading this week indicates that for visual use alone, the  bigger aperture is always better, even stopped down if necessary, and even under light pollution, when my 8" reaches its visual limit, the 12" will (should) still see more, under the same conditions ( but by how much is my dilemma )

The extra weight, size, expense, transportation and without a direct comparison, are holding me back? 
My 8" fits perfectly, fully assembled in its own cupboard, ready to go, so storage is easy, I could possibly carry the 8" to the end of the street to my new site? whereas the extra weight from the 12" may make me look stupid, struggling like a giddy drunk,  no doubt something  the neighbour's  may find amusing!

I`m not prepared to buy and try this time like I do with eyepieces?  If I did buy the scope, what if the gain was not sufficient enough  to have warranted the upgrade ( I may never know?)
My  8" Skyliner is stunning, even more so from a darker site ( I think every scope is more capable than we think, not all of us have the perfect conditions to start with on your doorstep, but take  your good scope to a darker site and be amazed?) yet the only  minor issue I have is my image scale? and what makes me think the 12" would get more use, compared to the use that the 8" gets now?
This Years weather has been worse than ..ite! at my location and with Months of  twilight, the  scope in hibernation, it's really not worth it, therefore, a modified hide, some flocking, and some new Winter clothing may the next course of action.

Not sure of your present scope setup, and your mention of  lack of experience on type,  but  £285 from our sponsor, secures you a great starter scope, the  8" 200P Skyliner, you'd have about £1715 left depending on how much Lego you have sold? 
The physics of the larger 12" should  better the 8" but not under every condition, only trial and experience will tell. 
I wish you luck with your decision making, oh!, and dark skies.

[Lorne]

Skywatcher 300 flex tube, goto or manual.... both versions come up used regularly, portable enough to stick in a car to take to a dark site  AND will fit through a door (fit wheels to the base) if you keep it built up in a garage / shed etc. Will leave you with the cash to get a couple of decent eyepieces / telrad finder etc, to bring out the best  of the scope. 

[Alan64]

Then there's the Meade, and with a 2" two-speed focusser...

http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/meade-lightbridge-12-dobsonian-telescope.html

[ollypenrice]

I'd be looking at a David Lukehurst as well. http://www.dobsonians.co.uk/pricelist.html

Nice portable design, choice of mirrors - which could be better than 0.95 Strehl ratio for just under £2K - and you'd be dealing with an honest man. (This last point is highly significant.)  You'd have a bespoke instrument which would be a pleasure to follow through its construction.

Olly

[rockystar]

has anyone done a comparison of the Meade vs Skywatcher?

[Corkeyno2]

Does the mirror add to the cost?

[Corkeyno2]

I have been posting alot about 12 inch dobs recently, thanks for all the help! The only source of money for such a scope is to sell all the Lego I've had for YEARS. I was just wondering if anyone knew how much would it cost per 1kg of Lego.

Thanks,

Corkey

[CraigT82]

5 minutes ago, Corkeyno2 said:

Does the mirror add to the cost?

If your referring to the Lukehurst dobs, the mirrors ate included in the cost. The standard models have good quality mirrors on par with Synta/GSO mirrors, not sure where he sources them from. 

The deluxe models have higher quality 0.95 strehl units,  I think he sources them from Oldham Optical but I'm not sure on that. 

[Stu]

No idea, but have you considered building the world's first lego 12" dob?

Here is a frac for inspiration  

[wimvb]

Probably mot much, but check your local ebay or equivalent. Since Xmas is near, you might be able to sell it. If you have complete kits, you can probably get a decent price, but I wouldn't expect lego blocks by the kg to cover the cost of a 12" dob.

Good luck

[John]

If you are on a tight budget (and your Lego references suggest that you might be !) I reckon the Revelation 12" dobsonian at £550 new is about as good a deal as you can get if you don't want to explore the used market.

My good friend Mark (Mark at Beafort on here) has one, is an experienced observer, and I know that he rates it highly.

The others mentioned in this thread are also excellent instruments but the price will be a lot higher (2x-4x as much) for the non-mass produced ones (eg: Orion Optics, David Lukehurst, Summarian) which could leave you stuggling to find a budget for some nice eyepieces, which really do make large aperture dobsonians "strut their stuff"

On GSO V's Skywatcher optical quality issue, I suspect that there is not much, if anything, to pick between the average GSO mirror and the average Skywatcher one. GSO make the Meade Lightbridge and Revelation dobsonians by the way.

I'm actually struggling to think of a "bad" 12" dobsonian and I don't think there is one these days.

 

[brantuk]

I had a Skywatcher 12" Flextube and it was a very nice scope indeed. Very crisp and clear with plenty of contrast on good nights - you can't really go wrong with them as a first taste of larger dobs. And they were very reasonably priced. If you can - get along to your local astro soc on an observing night to have a look through one - it's a smashing instrument. 

Of course if you're after top quality mirrors then by all means go the Lukehurst/Sumerian route - but for vfm it's hard to beat a Skywatcher.

[Timebandit]

24 minutes ago, John said:

If you are on a tight budget (and your Lego references suggest that you might be !) I reckon the Revelation 12" dobsonian at £550 new is about as good a deal as you can get if you don't want to explore the used market.

My good friend Mark (Mark at Beafort on here) has one, is an experienced observer, and I know that he rates it highly.

The others mentioned in this thread are also excellent instruments but the price will be a lot higher (2x-4x as much) for the non-mass produced ones (eg: Orion Optics, David Lukehurst, Summarian) which could leave you stuggling to find a budget for some nice eyepieces, which really do make large aperture dobsonians "strut their stuff"

On GSO V's Skywatcher optical quality issue, I suspect that there is not much, if anything, to pick between the average GSO mirror and the average Skywatcher one. GSO make the Meade Lightbridge and Revelation dobsonians by the way.

I'm actually struggling to think of a "bad" 12" dobsonian and I don't think there is one these days.

 

 

4 minutes ago, brantuk said:

I had a Skywatcher 12" Flextube and it was a very nice scope indeed. Very crisp and clear with plenty of contrast on good nights - you can't really go wrong with them as a first taste of larger dobs. And they were very reasonably priced. If you can - get along to your local astro soc on an observing night to have a look through one - it's a smashing instrument. 

Of course if you're after top quality mirrors then by all means go the Lukehurst/Sumerian route - but for vfm it's hard to beat a Skywatcher.

 

I think I read something some years back about GSO and synta. The GSO mirrors i understand are from Taiwan and used in the likes of revelation, light bridge and the synta are from China and used in the skywatcher range I understand. And from what I read there seem  to be an opinion at the time that the GSO mirrors were possible not as good as the synta due to the quality control and you were more likely to get a better mirror from synta ?(how true this is I am not sure). And I think I read something about the coatings used on the synta could possibly be better than the GSO and allow the mirror to last longer?.  Obviously this may be correct or not? , And manufacturing processes and tolerances may of moved on , I am not sure if anyone has done any official tests on these mirrors to see what sort of strehl they give out to compare ,and if the coatings on the mirrors are better quality in one compared to the other. But certainly would be interesting  

[Guest Tuomo]

12 hours ago, wimvb said:

Probably mot much, but check your local ebay or equivalent. Since Xmas is near, you might be able to sell it. If you have complete kits, you can probably get a decent price, but I wouldn't expect lego blocks by the kg to cover the cost of a 12" dob.

Good luck

I have to disagree. Basicly those things never ever get old or break. Just wash em and they are like new. Heres good example. Over 10€/kilo!