Hi please need help to choose a beginner scope for a christmas present!

[Gaazer]

3 hours ago, Helen said:

 

The 6" Dob is here https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-150p-dobsonian.html  - It has nothing for scale though, so don't be fooled into thinking it is the same as the table top models!  The scope is 4 foot long and so the eyepiece would be head height.  If you can store it easily, this is a really great starter scope (Peter Drew above runs the Astronomy Centre so is used to dealing with lots of beginners  )

Helen

Ive just seen a video of the scale and I think its too big to store anywhere easily..

[Gaazer]

3 hours ago, Helen said:

 

The 6" Dob is here https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-150p-dobsonian.html  - It has nothing for scale though, so don't be fooled into thinking it is the same as the table top models!  The scope is 4 foot long and so the eyepiece would be head height.  If you can store it easily, this is a really great starter scope (Peter Drew above runs the Astronomy Centre so is used to dealing with lots of beginners  )

Helen

Hi Helen

 

I am starting to think a scope that size is too big for easy storage.

The thing is I still want one that's powerful enough

Thanks

[Peter Drew]

It probably has a smaller footprint than the other types you have been considering. 

[Yamez]

1 hour ago, Gaazer said:

I have heard of the 'GoTo' scopes but I think they are out of my price range.
If they aren't out of my price range can you recommend any?

My budget is £200-£220 max.

 

Thanks

I saw this scope was mentioned earlier https://www.firstlightoptics.com/heritage/skywatcher-heritage-114p-virtuoso.html which goes for £193. It is able be upgraded to a goto system if you purchase the handset which costs £145 https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-synscan-v4-handset.html. You will also have to buy the cable separately to plug the handset in: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/sky-watcher-az-goto-synscan-handset-cable.html.The handset plugs into the mount and works just like a normal goto mount (i believe). This can always be an investment once you have had and used your scope for a while. For Eyepieces i recommend using the ones supplied until your ready and have done research into what eyepiece you would like.

[billyharris72]

Given your budget a 6 inch dob such as the Skywatcher would be great scope. Unlike with the 130 it's long enough to not need a table. Much easier to use and much less wobbly than the 130M (I like equatorial mounts, but the cheaper ones are horrible), with better optics too. Should have plenty of change out of £200.

[rockystar]

If you want GoTo, you'll need to up your budget unfortunately: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/az-goto/skywatcher-skyhawk-1145p-synscan-az-goto.html 

If I was to start again with £200, I'd go with the 6" Dob - but, it took me 12 months of using a cheap 4" on a crappy alt-az mount & 8 months of using an expensive telescope on an EQ5  to decide this. The are fairly easy to store, I've seen an 8" version, pointed upwards and stored next to a bookcase.

It is a minefield though, so do take you time and try to determine what it is you most want from it and the hobby.

[Gaazer]

13 hours ago, rockystar said:

If you want GoTo, you'll need to up your budget unfortunately: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/az-goto/skywatcher-skyhawk-1145p-synscan-az-goto.html 

If I was to start again with £200, I'd go with the 6" Dob - but, it took me 12 months of using a cheap 4" on a crappy alt-az mount & 8 months of using an expensive telescope on an EQ5  to decide this. The are fairly easy to store, I've seen an 8" version, pointed upwards and stored next to a bookcase.

It is a minefield though, so do take you time and try to determine what it is you most want from it and the hobby.

Hi

Thanks for your input its very helpful.

Lots of you guys are recommending this one? I have see a video of how big it is and this is the only concern for me.

With this scope would it be a case of setting it up and never putting it away again? Or is it easy to setup and take down so that i could store it into its box?

When you say 'its a minefeild and take time to determine that it is you want from it' - My dad has always been into space and astronomy. We look out for the ISS when it passes above us on a clear night. So would it be a steep learning curve to use this scope to if i wanted to look at a the orion nebula or planets?

Is it hard to locate these with this scope? As it doesn't have a motor and we would be novices. 

Thanks for your time and patience. 

Rhys

[Helen]

Morning Rhys

I think you've realised that there is no definitive answer to which scope should I buy, everyone has compromises of some description (cost, size, robustness, ease of set up, ease of storage, quality etc) and ultimately you will need to decide what is most important for you personally  

For the 6" inch dob.  In its favour: excellent value for money - you will get better views with this anything else in your price range; it is good quality; it is quick and easy to set up and use.  Its downsides are: it is a bit bigger to store (but perhaps simpler than finding room for a tripod and a tube); it doesn't have goto (you have to learn the sky); it doesn't track objects (but actually you will quickly learn to just gently nudge the scope to keep the object in view).

You can easily remove the tube from the base and store separately.  I haven't had this particular model, but the (bigger) one I had came with the base flat-packed.  Given the construction of the base I wouldn't think building and dismantling each time would be a good idea.  The easiest way to store is to leave the two parts together, with the scope point directly upwards, and stick a cover over it.  Lots of people keep them in sheds, or corners of garages, or conservatories.

To find things, it comes with a finder scope - this is a smaller telescope with a wider field of view which you align (ideally during the day) with the main telescope.  It is like a rifle sight.  At night you use the finder first and then your object should be visible in the main scope.  I much prefer to use one of these https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/telrad-finder-astronomy.html which projects a bullseye on the sky and makes finding very intuitive.  You can get free star charts with telrad circles one them which allow you to find objects easily.  Here's a chart that shows how to find the Orion nebula (and other objects in the area) MAP2 - telrad messier.PDF   The book Turn Left at Orion is also great at explaining how to find things - its aim is to get beginners finding things.  And it is actually fun finding things for yourself!

So..... I think only you can decide whether size/storage is an issue.  Remember First Light Optics have a 30 day returns policy (which is extended for Christmas) so you will be able to try it and see.

Helen

 

 

 

[ecuador]

Do you have an astronomy club near you where you can try out some of the scopes? For example, many people like dobsonians, but that is not true for everyone - e.g. I personally give the 5 extra minutes to assemble an equatorial gladly, since I find it very comfortable to tack objects afterwards - even without a motor drive (slow motion controls). And it makes for some easy planetary imaging by using a webcam. Also, if you don't have easy access to quite dark skies, then the extra aperture of the dobsonian won't make a big difference.

At your price range I would probably get the 130P, with the shorter tube (more portable and easier for the mount to handle) and parabolic mirror. Or, if I had a DSLR, I might go for the motorized (non-parabolic to stay within budget) versions so that I could try some piggyback wide field astrophotography (the camera is on the telescope but shooting through its own lens, just using the mount for tracking and perhaps the telescope for corrections).

As I said, that's just me - better if you tried them out yourself. Yeah, I know it's for your Dad, *wink* *wink*.

[billyharris72]

4 hours ago, Gaazer said:

With this scope would it be a case of setting it up and never putting it away again? Or is it easy to setup and take down so that i could store it into its box?

If you mean do you need to leave it set up in the garden I can reassure you on this one - absolutely not! Dobs are perhaps the fastest of all scopes to set up. Literally take them outside and plonk them on the ground. A 150mm won't be heavy (Newtonians are usually lighter than they look) and you should be able to move it in one go (I do with my 8") but you can just left the tube off the rocker box and move it in two trips if you prefer.

As above, I would not be tempted to dismantle it each time, but the footprint is really small - it will sit in a corner quite happily.

I also like the Heritage 130P a lot, but personally would avoid the EQ1 or EQ2 mounts - more fiddly for a beginner to set up than a Dob, and shakier. Plus the 150mm will just show you more. Given that lack of a table to set it on can be inconvenient, I really do think the 6 inch both the easiest to use and most powerful scope within your budget.

[Gaazer]

21 minutes ago, billyharris72 said:

If you mean do you need to leave it set up in the garden I can reassure you on this one - absolutely not! Dobs are perhaps the fastest of all scopes to set up. Literally take them outside and plonk them on the ground. A 150mm won't be heavy (Newtonians are usually lighter than they look) and you should be able to move it in one go (I do with my 8") but you can just left the tube off the rocker box and move it in two trips if you prefer.

As above, I would not be tempted to dismantle it each time, but the footprint is really small - it will sit in a corner quite happily.

I also like the Heritage 130P a lot, but personally would avoid the EQ1 or EQ2 mounts - more fiddly for a beginner to set up than a Dob, and shakier. Plus the 150mm will just show you more. Given that lack of a table to set it on can be inconvenient, I really do think the 6 inch both the easiest to use and most powerful scope within your budget.

 

3 hours ago, Helen said:

Morning Rhys

I think you've realised that there is no definitive answer to which scope should I buy, everyone has compromises of some description (cost, size, robustness, ease of set up, ease of storage, quality etc) and ultimately you will need to decide what is most important for you personally  

For the 6" inch dob.  In its favour: excellent value for money - you will get better views with this anything else in your price range; it is good quality; it is quick and easy to set up and use.  Its downsides are: it is a bit bigger to store (but perhaps simpler than finding room for a tripod and a tube); it doesn't have goto (you have to learn the sky); it doesn't track objects (but actually you will quickly learn to just gently nudge the scope to keep the object in view).

You can easily remove the tube from the base and store separately.  I haven't had this particular model, but the (bigger) one I had came with the base flat-packed.  Given the construction of the base I wouldn't think building and dismantling each time would be a good idea.  The easiest way to store is to leave the two parts together, with the scope point directly upwards, and stick a cover over it.  Lots of people keep them in sheds, or corners of garages, or conservatories.

To find things, it comes with a finder scope - this is a smaller telescope with a wider field of view which you align (ideally during the day) with the main telescope.  It is like a rifle sight.  At night you use the finder first and then your object should be visible in the main scope.  I much prefer to use one of these https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/telrad-finder-astronomy.html which projects a bullseye on the sky and makes finding very intuitive.  You can get free star charts with telrad circles one them which allow you to find objects easily.  Here's a chart that shows how to find the Orion nebula (and other objects in the area) MAP2 - telrad messier.PDF   The book Turn Left at Orion is also great at explaining how to find things - its aim is to get beginners finding things.  And it is actually fun finding things for yourself!

So..... I think only you can decide whether size/storage is an issue.  Remember First Light Optics have a 30 day returns policy (which is extended for Christmas) so you will be able to try it and see.

Helen

 

 

 

Hi Helen

 

Thanks once more for your detailed response.

I think i am going to go with the one you (and others) have suggest. I will be able to find a spot to place it when not used.

Are the Telrad finders (The one you linked) easy to setup and use for beginners? Would i need to remove anything from the scope to attach the Telrad?

This site has given me so much advice i am so happy i found it. You are all great helpful people.  

Rhys

[rockystar]

the telrad base attaches to the scope with sticky pads - nothing to remove, nothing to add

 

[Helen]

8 minutes ago, rockystar said:

the telrad base attaches to the scope with sticky pads - nothing to remove, nothing to add

 

...and to align the Telrad the moon is easiest.  Get the moon in the scope then adjust the knobs on the telrad until the bullseye is over the moon

Helen

[noah4x4]

I echo what Helen said earlier.

I bought a cheap 130 Astromaster and cheap eyepiece kit from Amazon and I nearly gave up. Too unstable; too wobbly; too complicated; hence too hard to find many celestial objects other than the Moon etc. I sold it within a month (losing 50%) and bought a Nextstar SE4 for £398. As regards ANY cheap eyepeices; utter waste of money.  The difference is like comparing a kids tricycle to a racing bike.

Frankly, I would save your money until you can afford a decent Mak-Cass (GoTo) telescope or a robust Dobsonian.  Go and look in a proper telescope showroom, particularly at mounts and tripods. You will get great advice. A telescope should be for life, but my guess is that 50% of first time buyers  fall out of love with the hobby because they buy a cheap entry level scope, waste loads on poor quality accessories and are then disappointed. 

 

[Gaazer]

1 hour ago, noah4x4 said:

I echo what Helen said earlier.

I bought a cheap 130 Astromaster and cheap eyepiece kit from Amazon and I nearly gave up. Too unstable; too wobbly; too complicated; hence too hard to find many celestial objects other than the Moon etc. I sold it within a month (losing 50%) and bought a Nextstar SE4 for £398. As regards ANY cheap eyepeices; utter waste of money.  The difference is like comparing a kids tricycle to a racing bike.

Frankly, I would save your money until you can afford a decent Mak-Cass (GoTo) telescope or a robust Dobsonian.  Go and look in a proper telescope showroom, particularly at mounts and tripods. You will get great advice. A telescope should be for life, but my guess is that 50% of first time buyers  fall out of love with the hobby because they buy a cheap entry level scope, waste loads on poor quality accessories and are then disappointed. 

 

Thanks for your advice but unfortunately i can only spend a maximum of £220. As this is a gift for Christmas i wouldnt be able to afford to spend £300-400 at the moment.

What i am thinking is, for the time being while myself and my Dad are beginners we can use this scope  and if we want an upgrade in the future we will spend more money on one. 

 

Thanks

[Gaazer]

1 hour ago, Helen said:

...and to align the Telrad the moon is easiest.  Get the moon in the scope then adjust the knobs on the telrad until the bullseye is over the moon

Helen

Hi Helen,

One more question before i take the plunge and buy the scope, telrad, and book you suggested!

My dad has always said to me that he would love to be able to see the rings of Saturn with his own eyes. (Hence the reason i want to get him a telescope) 

Will this be possible with the 150P Dobsonian and how would the 200p version compare?

Thank you!

[Helen]

Yep, you will see the rings of Saturn with the 6 inch - my first view of the rings was with a similar 6 inch scope   The 8 inch would provide a bit more of everything - light and resolution but also weight and size...  

Helen

[noah4x4]

I did say "OR a robust Dobsonian" (e.g. if you can't  immediately afford a fuller featured Mak-Cass GoTo which would be my entry level recommendation).  I was trying to highlight the next potential level. Can't you persuade Dad to chip in too?

For the money, your (Dobsonian) choice is, at least, a decent solid instrument as a price/feature compromise to which it is then worthwhile buying quality accessories.  But it will still be fairly challenging for a novice.

What I was particularly arguing is don't buy an apparently full featured German equatorial mount/tripod with a fairly cumbersome OTA that looks impressive but is so flimsy and difficult to use that you get frustrated and surrender.  After buying decent EP's you can always retain them for your next scope too. Like many, I probably have £500 of eyepieces and filters bought in haste that I will never use. 

[rockystar]

56 minutes ago, Gaazer said:

Will this be possible with the 150P Dobsonian and how would the 200p version compare?

At the same magnification you will get slightly better resolution in the 200 - but the 150 will still give you a good view and that wow moment. You will have to wait until late spring though before Saturn is next in the night sky - Jupiter will be very prominent at Christmas though, and will also give you that wow factor.

[BeerMe]

Hi Rhys.  If you haven't already made your mind up, I noticed above that you said space was a premium for you?  If so, you could downgrade slightly to the 130p collapsible flextube dobsonian that I have, which I store in its box which is about 24 inches tall and 14 inches wide/deep.  Very compact and portable , and very easy to set up ?

 

www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-heritage-130p-flextube.html

 

 

[BeerMe]

Here is the size of its box for reference 

 

 

[Gaazer]

46 minutes ago, BeerMe said:

Hi Rhys.  If you haven't already made your mind up, I noticed above that you said space was a premium for you?  If so, you could downgrade slightly to the 130p collapsible truss-tube dobsonian that I have, which I store in its box which is about 24 inches tall and 14 inches wide/deep.  Very compact and portable , and very easy to set up ?

 

www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-heritage-130p-flextube.html

 

 

Hi Thanks for letting me know.

I may have a look into it. but at the moment I am pretty set on the 150P dob.

 

Regards

Rhys