Crab nebula

[leo82]

Hi all,

I'm having trouble finding the Crab Nebula. I took a look this morning around 5 o'clock and it was nice and high in the sky.

i used a combination of turn left at Orion and stellarium to navigate myself there.

finding Zeta tauri was the easy part, from there onwards it soon got harder.

i centered on Zeta with the stock 25mm then took a look around. Couldn't see anything so recenterd.

put the stock 10mm in refocused eventually after losing Zeta, had a look around and still couldn't see anything.

is 130mm aperature too small for this dso?

many thanks.

[Paul73]

The Crab can be a tricky customer. Even when you find it you are unlikely to be blown away. Moisture in the air coupled with a bit of light pollution can render it invisible in scopes twice the size.

How are your light pollution levels?

I should imagine that under dark sky, your scope could do it, but others are better placed to advise on that.

Good luck

Paul

 

[ronin]

M1, Crab, is small and dim. Some report seeing it in binoculars, others have not seen it in anything even 200mm scopes. So somewhat elusive.

The one time I think I saw it was in a 6" Meade, I said I think there is a slight "smudge" there the other person reckoned it was wishful thinking. We were under somewhat light polluted skies, just to add to the general difficulty.

In effect cannot say with certainty if a 130 will do it, likely a borderline object. The 10mm will I guess be too much to find it with, too narrow and too big/dim. Not sure of the FoV of the sock items, more relevant not sure how sharp+clear they are. M1 is the sort of object where you need the clarity and sharpness. Sort of a 25mm TV plossl will show it, 32mm TV plossl better to locate. Minor problem is TV plossl's are not cheap. Know anyone to lend you an eyepiece or two?

[leo82]

Thanks for your reply Paul,

I do suffer from heavier light pollution where I am, I could see Zeta with the naked eye, 2.85 mag I think it is, but the stars in the Little Dipper are non existent.

[leo82]

Thanks also ronin, 

unfortunately I don't know of anyone else who is into astronomy so borrowing eyepieces is out of the question.

 

[andrew63]

19 minutes ago, leo82 said:

Thanks also ronin, 

unfortunately I don't know of anyone else who is into astronomy so borrowing eyepieces is out of the question.

 

Your stock 25mm eyepiece will do the job just fine -  what's important is the darkness of your sky.  In fact, with your 25mm eyepiece, M1 will be in the same field of view as Zeta in the heritage - no star hopping involved !  Look carefully and you should see a pea sized smudge, under good skies.  

andrew

[leo82]

Thanks Andrew.

when you say m1 will be in the same field of view as Zeta. Would that be if Zeta was central or off towards the edge?

many thanks.

[andrew63]

I your telescope, when it is well up in the sky if you place zeta towards the top of the centre field, M1 should be near the bottom of the field of view.  In clock terms, zeta at 12 and M1 at 6.  Good luck, it's a great thrill to find, even though not much to see !

 

andrew

[leo82]

Thanks again Andrew.

i shall try this again in the morning, weather permitting!

would a uhc filter be ideal in this situation?

[andrew63]

I can't help with filters, sure someone else will advise.  As the sky revolves, so do the objects. Later in the night the position will change so it might be 2 and 8 clock position before dawn.   If you don't have Stellarium downloaded on your computer it is great for locating objects as you can match the field of view with your telescope for the object you wish to see - it's also free. I use it often for locating DSO, asteroids, comets.

andrew

[leo82]

I've done a bit of digging and found that m1 is 1 degree northwest of Zeta so if I keep Zeta on the edge of the field of view I should be able to locate m1 with a lot of trial and error (in theory anyway)

[Moonshane]

If you have any major light pollution you will be able to see it but it will be very dim. I have seen it in 15x70 bins and anything upwards in scope size from home but count myself as reasonably experienced. Your scope is more than capable but the conditions will affect it greatly. Imagine a faint fingerprint on the eyepiece and that's what it looks like.I usually start from Aldebaran in the Hyades and the bottom of the Hyades points at Zeta Tau. in your finder make a low equalateral triangle with 114 Tau, the crab and Zeta as follows

 

[mikeDnight]

Strangely the Crab can be easier in binoculars than in a telescope. It is quite large and diffuse, and to be able to see it well youll need a transparent night so if theres even a light mist you could struggle. Your scope will certainly show the Crab well while using a 20mm eyepiece, and once found you may like to increase the power. As the sky background darkens at higher magnification you may then notice structure within the nebula itself. For a certainty the vein structure that is often shown well in images can be seen visually, though fleetingly, in a 150mm scope when the night is transparent. Smaller scopes easily show a V, N or W structure as the brightness varies across the core. Who knows, it may also be possible to detect the vein structure in instruments smaller than 150mm? it could be a fun challenge if youre up for it! Averted vision and good dark adaption is essential for seeing such structures in small apertures.

Mike ☺

[Moonshane]

You are looking for something a bit like this but somewhat fainter.

Off the top of my head Zeta is at the top and 114 at 9 o'clock

 

[Scooot]

I looked at it last night with my 16" and o111 filter and it looked a touch fainter than the sketch in moonshanes post. I can usually see 3 stars in the Little Dipper, occasionally others, so it sounds as if my light pollution isn't quite as bad as yours. It seems to me very challenging for you to detect it with 130 aperture.

[Paul73]

I would give the Crab a miss until you get your scope out of town.

You will see plenty of splendid things through your scope. But save the faint fuzzies until you get away from the lights. I can see down to Mag 5.5 from my garden and sometimes find the Crab elusive!

For a target to be visible, it must be brighter than the background sky. Expensive eyepieces are great but they wont help in this case.

Paul

 

[VilleM]

M1 is a smudge in small / medium scopes. I had a view through 36" scope and it didnt show much detail. Some, but not as much as I thought it would. Binos is doable under dark skies. Ive also seen it with 70mm and 100mm refractors. However its just a smudge with small apertures.

[jetstream]

M1 is an underwhelming target IMHO, eventhough dark skies and aperture help it out big time. I can easily see it in my 90mm frac and it is a good target challenge under less than dark skies.

[alan potts]

Have to agree with Gerry, it is one of the most disappointing object in the sky in my books. It is true you can, and I have, seen it with bino's and a small scope but even with my 18 inch it is not wonderful from a pretty dark site.

Alan

[rockystar]

I haven't tried for this myself ( I will, so that I can tick it off the list), as the one time I did see it, was in a 10" scope under reasonably dark skies, and it was faint and not very impressive.

[leo82]

thanks for all your replies.

unfortunately it was too foggy this morning to try and observe. I will however dedicate a session to this object to see if it can be done with a smaller aperature and light polluted sky. If not I will happily accept defeat. I will take a look through my bins too just in case.

Thanks again.

[niallk]

Best of luck observing it!

I've seen it in my 250px, showing a somewhat triangular shape to my eye. Some nights it was quite faint, but I just kept trying again, and did get a night where transparency was better than average, and it was much better defined with higher contrast.

I think it is impressive to see it, and know that what you're looking at is the result of a relatively recent 1054 supernova that is noticeably expanding over time, and there is (the first known?) neutron star/ pulsar in there!

 

 

Edited November 3, 2016 by niallk

[cotterless45]

Historically and cosmic wise it's a great ? nebula. It's always quite disappointing visually , even from dark sites,

Nick.

[swamp thing]

3 minutes ago, cotterless45 said:

. It's always quite disappointing visually , even from dark sites,

Nick.

I would have to disagree with you Nick old chap, sorry. 

You need to add some aperture matey to get the image scale required then M1 will give you some stunning views from those dark skies  

 

[Mark at Beaufort]

When SGL first decided to visit Lucksall for SGL4 I was asked to undertake a dark sky survey. I took my 15x70 binos and saw M1 which confirmed to me that Lucksall was an okay site for a star party.

I accept that its not the brightest DSO but I get a buzz knowing it was a supernova seen in 1054. I also agree with Steve above - I am quite pleased with the view I get with my 12".

I attach a map from Stellarium based on your Heritage scope and a 25mm EP. Your scope will show M1 but you may need darker and less polluted skies.