Goodbye dobs & farewell

[jabeoo1]

14 minutes ago, John said:

If you feel inclined towards big aperture at some point you can always come along to the BAS observatory and have a look through the NGT 18". We are aiming to use that scope more this winter

Cheers John, I will take you up on that  

[Highburymark]

Great post James - I am in the process of settling down to 2 scopes (apart from the Lunt of course) - will also get a 100mm refractor (to accompany my C8 SCT). Those pinpoint stars are addictive. I'm also pretty certain that the frac will be the ultimate 'for life' keeper - so going to get something that's light, portable - including airline cabin portable, yet a capable planetary scope. And excellent quality - at moment Tak FC-100DC is most likely choice - just 2.8kg. Look forward to reading about your choice and hope it works out for you. 

[Linda]

2 hours ago, kerrylewis said:

I hadn't heard of this book. Based on the recommendations here, I've just ordered a s/h copy via Amazon -very cheap. Looking forward to reading it 

Good idea. I ordered it too, based on your post here.

[swamp thing]

I like all types of scope. Anything that shows the heavens with greater image scale than the naked eye alone is a bonus IMO.  

 

[jabeoo1]

5 hours ago, Highburymark said:

 Tak FC-100DC is most likely choice.

Yep that is the choice, it has to be. 

[Timebandit]

7 hours ago, John said:

If you feel inclined towards big aperture at some point you can always come along to the BAS observatory and have a look through the NGT 18". We are aiming to use that scope more this winter

 

That's very nice of you John. I think you may have just organised another SGL star party. Do we need to bring our tents ?

[Highburymark]

19 hours ago, jabeoo1 said:

Yep that is the choice, it has to be. 

Shame prices have just crept up, but against the breathtakingly expensive Televue 85 (£2.5k!!!), the Tak is a relative steal. 

[Paz]

I completely understand this post. I've put a lot of thought into getting my big dobsonian set up and take down to the point where it is as quick as setting up my st120/az3 and quicker than my maksutov/eq5.

However the dobsonian does require more strength and it takes up more space.

 

[timwetherell]

Some interesting points here! Having owned some monster telescopes and some small convenient ones I have to say the small ones do get used more often. I was looking at M31 on Saturday night from my back yard with both my 7" and a 66mm apo. The difference should be staggering but with such big diffuse objects it wasn't nearly so much as I expected. Curious to see what it would look like at a really dark site, I packed the 66 in the car and left the 7" at home. It's just too much hassle to load, unload and set up in a field.

Big telescopes do give better views of many things but the older I get the more I dread setting up heavy awkward telescopes in the freezing cold. 

[Paul73]

Agreed. Mentally, the conditions have got to be spot on to get the Big Un out. Consequently, I miss loads of great observing opportunities.

My ED80 is great for these. But, I upgraded the mount and added a pucker wooden tripod. Now I can barely lift the thing!!!

Maybe less is more?

Paul

PS. Then, very occasionally, you get a dark clear night and big Dobs rule ??

[mikeDnight]

2 hours ago, timwetherell said:

Some interesting points here! Having owned some monster telescopes and some small convenient ones I have to say the small ones do get used more often. I was looking at M31 on Saturday night from my back yard with both my 7" and a 66mm apo. The difference should be staggering but with such big diffuse objects it wasn't nearly so much as I expected. Curious to see what it would look like at a really dark site, I packed the 66 in the car and left the 7" at home. It's just too much hassle to load, unload and set up in a field.

Big telescopes do give better views of many things but the older I get the more I dread setting up heavy awkward telescopes in the freezing cold. 

 

29 minutes ago, Paul73 said:

Agreed. Mentally, the conditions have got to be spot on to get the Big Un out. Consequently, I miss loads of great observing opportunities.

My ED80 is great for these. But, I upgraded the mount and added a pucker wooden tripod. Now I can barely lift the thing!!!

Maybe less is more?

Paul

PS. Then, very occasionally, you get a dark clear night and big Dobs rule ??

The same reasoning lead me to my present scope and I've never been happier! In 2003 I bought my first Tak, a FS128, which although superb was a hefty telescope for a 5". It required a hefty mount and that began to make things a bit of a chore to set up, but once set up it was fantastic. I loved my FS128! Then in 2007 I had the opportunity to buy a FS152 second hand and so I jumped at it. Big mistake! The 152 was an excellent scope but was a monster to mount and needed a G11 to carry it well. As time went on I found that although I was proud to be the owner of a 6" Takahashi Fluorite, I was doing less and less observing and would look for excuses why not to observe. I eventually sold the FS152 and bought a TV101 and all the trimmings, Gibraltar mount, star beam and a whole box of Naglers etc  with the proceeds from the Tak sale. The 101 I thought would be my ideal scope and in many ways it was, except that it lacked that fluorite purity of the Taks. The moon looked nicotine yellow rather than ice white as in the Taks. Also, after the TV101 was left standing by a Vixen 102 F6.5 ED while looking at Saturn, I decided it was time to give the TV101 the push. I then spent about six happy years using an excellent Equinox 120 ED which was very close to the Taks in performance. Then exactly 2 yrs ago I bought a Equinox ED80 as a simple grab and go scope. I found that I used the ED80  far more often than the 120 and was very impressed by that tiny scopes performance. I'd go out just for a five minute session on the moon and find myself still sat on a frosty garden bench an hour of more later. I also noticed that the little ED80  was packing quite a punch on the planet's. When the 120 was showing only the two main belts on Jupiter the little 80 was showing five. The 80 also showed the GRS along with a number of festoons and shadow transits, and I remember thinking that if all I had was that little ED80 I'd be happy. Then it happened! My friend paulastro told me of Taks new FC100DC. I reasoned that if a ED80  is so good while the 120 often struggled (possibly due to my local seeing) then how much better would a 100mm Tak fluorite be? It didn't take me long to sell off most of my gear to fund the new scope and before I knew it I was once again the very proud owner of a Tak refractor. This time though it was only 100mm  aperture and very light weight.It was the best move I've ever made! It never disappoints and i can be set up in less than three minutes. It's planetary performance is outstanding, but to my great surprise, so is its deep sky prowess. I can't imagine a better all round powerhouse than the FC100D. It's vibrant and powerful, and ready to go at a moment's notice, and I love it!

Mike ?

[Dave Lloyd]

Ironically I`m coming round to the idea of a medium sized dob (10-12") to complement my pair of achros.

Just  got to sell it to Mrs - one scope fits all - Lloyd.

[mikeDnight]

22 minutes ago, Dave Lloyd said:

Ironically I`m coming round to the idea of a medium sized dob (10-12") to complement my pair of achros.

Just  got to sell it to Mrs - one scope fits all - Lloyd.

If you attach a shoulder strap to your prospective 10 or 12" it will be a grab and go! 

[Mark at Beaufort]

2016 has been an interesting year for the scopes that I have bought and sold. I decided that I missed my larger Dob so I bought a 12" in February. I then bought a 6" Orion VX6L f/8 1/12th wave Newt and a 72mm APO these new scopes to compliment my 4" Astro Tech APO and my Orion VX8.

During the year I seemed to be using just two scopes the 12" Dob and the Orion VX8. I only used the 4" APO for white light solar or the occasional double star outing. I then sold the Orion VX6L and the 72mm APO. I thought long and hard about the 4" Astro Tech APO but I sold it recently to a fellow Moderator.

So will I regret selling the 4" - possibly. But at the moment the Orion VX8 is covering my grab and go, white light solar and the occasional double star outer. The 12" Dob speaks for itself.

 

[Highburymark]

On 7 November 2016 at 13:54, mikeDnight said:

 

The same reasoning lead me to my present scope and I've never been happier! In 2003 I bought my first Tak, a FS128, which although superb was a hefty telescope for a 5". It required a hefty mount and that began to make things a bit of a chore to set up, but once set up it was fantastic. I loved my FS128! Then in 2007 I had the opportunity to buy a FS152 second hand and so I jumped at it. Big mistake! The 152 was an excellent scope but was a monster to mount and needed a G11 to carry it well. As time went on I found that although I was proud to be the owner of a 6" Takahashi Fluorite, I was doing less and less observing and would look for excuses why not to observe. I eventually sold the FS152 and bought a TV101 and all the trimmings, Gibraltar mount, star beam and a whole box of Naglers etc  with the proceeds from the Tak sale. The 101 I thought would be my ideal scope and in many ways it was, except that it lacked that fluorite purity of the Taks. The moon looked nicotine yellow rather than ice white as in the Taks. Also, after the TV101 was left standing by a Vixen 102 F6.5 ED while looking at Saturn, I decided it was time to give the TV101 the push. I then spent about six happy years using an excellent Equinox 120 ED which was very close to the Taks in performance. Then exactly 2 yrs ago I bought a Equinox ED80 as a simple grab and go scope. I found that I used the ED80  far more often than the 120 and was very impressed by that tiny scopes performance. I'd go out just for a five minute session on the moon and find myself still sat on a frosty garden bench an hour of more later. I also noticed that the little ED80  was packing quite a punch on the planet's. When the 120 was showing only the two main belts on Jupiter the little 80 was showing five. The 80 also showed the GRS along with a number of festoons and shadow transits, and I remember thinking that if all I had was that little ED80 I'd be happy. Then it happened! My friend paulastro told me of Taks new FC100DC. I reasoned that if a ED80  is so good while the 120 often struggled (possibly due to my local seeing) then how much better would a 100mm Tak fluorite be? It didn't take me long to sell off most of my gear to fund the new scope and before I knew it I was once again the very proud owner of a Tak refractor. This time though it was only 100mm  aperture and very light weight.It was the best move I've ever made! It never disappoints and i can be set up in less than three minutes. It's planetary performance is outstanding, but to my great surprise, so is its deep sky prowess. I can't imagine a better all round powerhouse than the FC100D. It's vibrant and powerful, and ready to go at a moment's notice, and I love it!

Mike ?

Interesting post Mike - particularly about the Equinox 120 and its relatively poor performance on Jupiter - was that just a question of a larger aperture not coping as well with poor seeing? 

[mikeDnight]

9 minutes ago, Highburymark said:

Interesting post Mike - particularly about the Equinox 120 and its relatively poor performance on Jupiter - was that just a question of a larger aperture not coping as well with poor seeing? 

It was most likely entirely the fault of the seeing. The 120ED gave me many truly jaw dropping views of both Jupiter and Saturn as well as the moon, and in side by side comparison would easily outperform reflectors twice its aperture. The views were very close to Takahashi levels of performance and it was in no way a bad telescope. I remember the seeing at the time being quite rough. It was during that extended rough period that the 120 struggled to deliver its usual laser etched views, where as the 80 ED remained unaffected. I thought it would be good to have a scope that was more capable than the wonderful 80 ED but not as easily affected by the temprimental seeing from my site as the 120, and so I edged my bets and chose the Tak FC100DC. So far, the little Tak has done exactly what I hoped it would and cut through the seeing like a hot knife through butter. My first view through the 100mm almost made my knees buckle. The amount of detail in the cloud belts of Jupiter, and the seeing wasnt good, was truly astonishing. Though I had seen astonishing views through my 120ED quite regularly, the scope did seem to suffer during rough weather. I was able to directly compare the 120 with my new 100mm for some time as I'd sold the 120 to a friend. The 100DC always gave as good a view if not better than the 120. As I mentioned, the 120 really could deliver unbelievably sharp, high contrast views but the 100DC did so every time. I can only imagine it to have been the local seeing conditions that made such a noticeable difference. I believe the SW Equinox 120ED and the SW standard 120ED Pro to be among the world's finest doublet apo refractors and certainly not the poor cousin of their Japanese siblings.

Mike

[Timebandit]

9 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

It was most likely entirely the fault of the seeing. The 120ED gave me many truly jaw dropping views of both Jupiter and Saturn as well as the moon, and in side by side comparison would easily outperform reflectors twice its aperture. The views were very close to Takahashi levels of performance and it was in no way a bad telescope. I remember the seeing at the time being quite rough. It was during that extended rough period that the 120 struggled to deliver its usual laser etched views, where as the 80 ED remained unaffected. I thought it would be good to have a scope that was more capable than the wonderful 80 ED but not as easily affected by the temprimental seeing from my site as the 120, and so I edged my bets and chose the Tak FC100DC. So far, the little Tak has done exactly what I hoped it would and cut through the seeing like a hot knife through butter. My first view through the 100mm almost made my knees buckle. The amount of detail in the cloud belts of Jupiter, and the seeing wasnt good, was truly astonishing. Though I had seen astonishing views through my 120ED quite regularly, the scope did seem to suffer during rough weather. I was able to directly compare the 120 with my new 100mm for some time as I'd sold the 120 to a friend. The 100DC always gave as good a view if not better than the 120. As I mentioned, the 120 really could deliver unbelievably sharp, high contrast views but the 100DC did so every time. I can only imagine it to have been the local seeing conditions that made such a noticeable difference. I believe the SW Equinox 120ED and the SW standard 120ED Pro to be among the world's finest doublet apo refractors and certainly not the poor cousin of their Japanese siblings.

Mike

 

That's very interesting to hear that the Tak could cut through poor seeing conditions so much better,where the equinox 120 could not. I have an equinox 120ed Apo and the views I have got through it have been superb , just so sharp and crisp on lunar and planetary. I have had some outstanding views on Jupiter and Saturn, the best I have ever seen though a scope. Obviously a Chinese budget offering? when compared to the Tak ,but this scope can really hold its own and many a Tak owner who has looked through a equinox also rate them extremely highly, which is praise indeed. I do find it interesting that certain scopes can cut through poor seeing conditions to such an extent,when it effects others so much. I would of thought poor seeing conditions would not be able to be overcome to that much level to produce so different an outcome. But this is from a theory point of view with me as I have never had a Tak and equinox side by side for comparison like yourself, and as we know in this hobby you can talk theory all day but the proof in the pudding is in the eating and you have tried it and seen the results. But has this put me off the equinox, no as in my opinion it is one of the best bang for buck 120, Ed Apo that you can buy. Great value for money, especially more so if you can pick up a nice second hand one , which I was lucky enough to do ☺ 

[mikeDnight]

1 hour ago, Timebandit said:

 

That's very interesting to hear that the Tak could cut through poor seeing conditions so much better,where the equinox 120 could not. I have an equinox 120ed Apo and the views I have got through it have been superb , just so sharp and crisp on lunar and planetary. I have had some outstanding views on Jupiter and Saturn, the best I have ever seen though a scope. Obviously a Chinese budget offering? when compared to the Tak ,but this scope can really hold its own and many a Tak owner who has looked through a equinox also rate them extremely highly, which is praise indeed. I do find it interesting that certain scopes can cut through poor seeing conditions to such an extent,when it effects others so much. I would of thought poor seeing conditions would not be able to be overcome to that much level to produce so different an outcome. But this is from a theory point of view with me as I have never had a Tak and equinox side by side for comparison like yourself, and as we know in this hobby you can talk theory all day but the proof in the pudding is in the eating and you have tried it and seen the results. But has this put me off the equinox, no as in my opinion it is one of the best bang for buck 120, Ed Apo that you can buy. Great value for money, especially more so if you can pick up a nice second hand one , which I was lucky enough to do ☺ 

The Equinox 120 is one of my favourite refractors. Hold on to yours! The difference between the two scopes isn't that great and the Equinox really can pack a punch. I had six very happy years with mine!

Mike ☺

 

 

[Highburymark]

I'm sadly going to have to sell my Equinox 80 in a couple of weeks - it's a fantastic little scope. 

[Davesellars]

For sure nothing beats the crispness of the view through a refractor and if you live where LP is so bad you need to lug a scope to a dark site for every session then I can't say I blame you for going over to frac rather than using a large Newtonian for its simplicity and the logistics of setting up at a darker site.

Also I can sympathise with the quick setup time for a short session (to fit between clouds or other stuff...)  My 80ED saw lots of use like this especially after the birth of my 2 daughters where time was then scarce.

The 80ED performs magnificently I wonder if it is actually sharper especially on brighter targets like Jupiter and the Moon because of its seemingly complete absence of CA.  The 120ED because of the larger aperture does display a small amount of CA and I wonder if this is to blame for enough loss of focus between the 3 primary colours to affect detail?  I am not sure...

However for DSOs such as galaxies and smaller objects that old adage is true that nothing beats aperture....    After one session with my new 12" dob I knew that this is a keeper however my 120ED and 80ED trounces it for the large clusters!

[John]

On 10/11/2016 at 11:55, Davesellars said:

.....  The 120ED because of the larger aperture does display a small amount of CA and I wonder if this is to blame for enough loss of focus between the 3 primary colours to affect detail?  I am not sure...

 

Thats an interesting comment Dave. I find my ED120 shows very, very little CA at focus. Nothing around the limb of the moon and only very slight CA around the brightest stars. Having had the chance to compare the ED120 with my Tak flourite doublet and Lzos triplet (both of which show no CA at all) I've realised just how good the ED120 objective is. I've owned ED80's and and ED100 and the ED120 seems to be in very much the same league CA-wise.

[Moonshane]

I actually find even my big dobs are quicker to set up than my fracs.  I agree that being in focus and on axis makes a difference with with most with most fracs.  This is one of the reasons I like driven mounts with fracs

[John]

38 minutes ago, Moonshane said:

I actually find even my big dobs are quicker to set up than my fracs.  I agree that being in focus and on axis makes a difference with with most with most fracs.  This is one of the reasons I like driven mounts with fracs

I agree. I can get my 12" dob set up at least as quickly as my fracs, perhaps a little faster. 

 

[mikeDnight]

The speed of set-up is one thing, but how long does it take for a big dob to truly begin to work at optimum efficiency? 

A few years ago I'd set my 120ED up alongside a 8" SW Dob  (not really what you'd call big) and left them in the garden for six hours. That evening a friend came to observe with me. Going first to the Dob, we first looked at the moon, and it was certainly impressive! Then we moved over to the refractor and were both stunned at just how much sharper the image was, and allowing us to see fine detail much more easily. Other than having a brighter image, we both concluded the Dob had no advantage over the frac.

Moving back to the Dob we aimed the scope at Saturn. Again the view was very pleasing and if that had been a stand alone scope I would have said it was a very good planetary scope. Slightly apprehensive, I aimed the 120ED at Saturn, genuinely expecting it to take second place to the 8" Dob, but you could have blown me down with a feather, I don't know why because I've seen the same results countless times before. The refractor gave a breathtakingly laser etched view of Saturn. In the Dob you could make out the major components of the ring system A, B and C, and of course Cassini's division. In the ED the ring system was amass with ultra fine lines, much like the grooves on a record when viewed from an angle. 

May be the 8" wasn't working at its optimum, but after 6hrs I'd doubt it. May be it was more affected by the seeing conditions, but they were very good at the time. Or, may be its optics were lagging behind those of the ED. It was a nice scope but it never matched the ED's lunar an planetary performance and so I never really bonded with it.

Mike

[jabeoo1]

 

44 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

The speed of set-up is one thing, but how long does it take for a big dob to truly begin to work at optimum efficiency? 

Mike

Precisely Mike.  I could only store my Dob inside because the metal shed was full of condensation.  I therefore had to spend many hours using it way below optimum.  Some times I would have it waiting and then just as it was getting there the clouds rolled in and I had to down tools.

In 2.5 years both seeing conditions and optimisation were achieved in sync around 3 or 4 times.  I counted many missed short session opportunities, & thats when i realised this style of scope was not for me.