Celestron sky portal and starsense.

[MBJ]

I thought after my experience with it over the past few days I would write a review of the celestron sky portal wifi module and starsense auto align camera.

i already owned a celestron nexstar slt 127 but fancied something a bit bigger.

after a bit of thinking and some wheeling and dealing I got myself a cpc 800 with starsense and waited in anticipation for clear skies.

finally......Thursday night and crystal clear it was time to set up.!

setting the cpc 800 up was quite easy although it's quite a hefty lump.

attached the starsense camera to the tube and plugged it all in and powered on.

it comes with its own handset which is virtually identical to the cpc 800 handset apart from an align button and the name.

this handset is used instead of the celestron one that comes with the scope.

after checking the time,date and location was correct and making sure sidereal tracking was enabled in the menu it was time to start.

i have a clear view to the west and also to the east...my north view is obscured by trees at the bottom of my garden to a fair height of around 30 feet and south is partially blocked but low down due to my and my neighbours houses.

checking everything was ready I chose starsense auto align and hit enter........the scope moved to the west near enough pointing at vega and started acquiring an image....found 100 stars and plate solved the image.....success on number 1.........2 more to go.

it then moved to the north and stopped when it was pointing at the trees.....acquiring image......found 17 stars ..... How it did I've no idea but it did and tried to plate solve......failed!!!

moving to another location was the message.....it moved back to the west virtually where it first took an image and took another.

Solved the plate and success....number 2 done......1 more to go.

it then moved south and pointed just over my house roof towards Altair .....captured an image.....found 88 stars and plate solved it......success!!

3 done......alignment complete. Press enter to continue......at this point I picked m31 andromeda galaxy and sent it........MILE OFF!!!!!

not even near.....I could feel the frustration mounting so had a cup of coffee and put my dew shield on the scope as it was getting really cold.

composed myself and started again but failed once more as the scope and camera was getting dewed over and the camera couldnt image any stars.

at this point I was deflated so packed it all away for the night and thought to try again the next night.

fri night and clear again so all set up.....away we go......5 hours later......still not aligned due to trees and plate solving errors due to not enough stars!!!

frustrated wasn't the word so it all went in the house and I went to bed with the mug on.

next morning a visit to Rvo and bought the sky portal wifi module.

downloaded celestrons sky portal app and set it all up.

dark and clear Saturday night I went out....left the handset unplugged as its not needed if you are using the wifi module and sky portal app.

it auto detects the starsense camera when it's plugged in to the aux port on the mount.

i plugged the wifi module into the aux port and connected my phone to the celestron wifi it created.

i started the sky portal app up and checked time,date and location were ok....the phones inbuilt gps added it all to the app so all set to go.

clicked connect and align and it set off doing the 3 stage alignment like it did with the handset but failed every time due to different things.....not enough stars.....scope limits out......all kinds.

i was getting to the point of packing it all away and leaving it but went in for a coffee and read the starsense manual....it never gave me anything to try other than what I had done except calibrate the camera to the scope.

while I was having my coffee I looked through the sky portal app settings and found 3 options for alignment.

starsense auto......starsense manual and another which I can't remember.........I wonder!!

i went back out with a fresh mind and set it in the app settings to starsense manual.

clicked connect and align and it asked me to point anywhere in the sky and click align....I did......it acquired an image......solved it.....success!

it asked me to move to another location so I did......acquired image....solved.....success!

i thought surely not........it asked me once more to move anywhere and click align....acquired image........solved......success.......alignment complete!!!!

so I'm stood there thinking that took about 2 minutes from start to finish.....if this works I'll eat my hat!!

the scopes pointing low to the south well below Altair.......I looked on the app on my phone....the scopes reticule is pointing low to the south.....it looks good......I touched vega on my phone screen and a cursor appeared round it.....,pressed goto......off the scope went....the scopes reticule moved over the sky on the app in time with the telescope......slowed down.....and settled bang on vega....I had a 32mm panaview ep in.....looked through it......BANG ON THE MONEY!!!!!!

but wait.....was it a fluke......I sent it to Altair......bang on in the middle.......dumbbell nebula......bang on......over to the east......andromeda......bang on......owl cluster....bang on......everything I sent it to for about 3 hours was smack bang in the centre of my fov.

i was chuffed to bits but more so happy with what I thought would be a waste of money.

i repeated it tonight and did a manual align just with the wifi module in the mount and the starsense camera....no handset.

the app works great and it was bang on in the centre again every time.

so my advice is yes....get the starsense.....yes...get the wifi module but don't use any handset at all.....change the sky portal app settings to starsense manual and it works great.

 

i hope this is helpful to anyone who has bought it and struggled or to anyone thinking of buying it.

mick

 

 

[Layton]

I'll be trying out my WiFi with my Starsense for the first time tonight so I hope I have as good of luck.

L

[noah4x4]

My guess is that the above experience when using the HC simply describes a time/date/zone/daylight saving time user error that was eliminated by the tablet's GPS type functionality. The tablet simply replaces the HC (and vice versa). So if it works fine with a tablet it will do likewise with the HC.  All my initial GoTo's were 15° off because I had errored with DST. It's a common mistake.

[MBJ]

7 hours ago, noah4x4 said:

My guess is that the above experience when using the HC simply describes a time/date/zone/daylight saving time user error that was eliminated by the tablet's GPS type functionality. The tablet simply replaces the HC (and vice versa). So if it works fine with a tablet it will do likewise with the HC.  All my initial GoTo's were 15° off because I had errored with DST. It's a common mistake.

I checked the time/date/loc in the handset as it says in the original post....it wasnt anything to do with that.it was a combination of the starsense moving to random locations and not realising it was photographing trees and houses and it didnt seem to work as well in auto align mode as it did in manual when used with the skyportal app.

Dont forget the cpc has built in gps also so it cant be wrong.

But it was checked anyway so user error was ruled out.

Sorry to rule out your incorrect guess.

 

 

[noah4x4]

I don't have a CPC, but I have two Starsense accessories. Both initially performed apparently irrationally on different mounts (Evolution and SE) until I sorted out Time/Date/Zone/DST away from the factory set defaults in the HC. This is typically unnecessary when using a WiFi/Tablet and the Celestron dedicated SkyPortal APP.  However, users of the more database sophisticated (but generic as regards telescopes) SkySafari should note that some things must be set via the HC. That is why I still suspect the error I described earlier. It is irrational that it works fine via WiFi but not via HC if these settings are correct in both.

Somewhat ievitably I didn't get full accuracy until I fixed these and  abandoned using "cities" and switched to Longitude/latitude as I am 50+ miles from London. But if you have internal GPS and checked all such settings that can't be the explanation.

But have you set Time/Location <Source>  (under Menu/Time & Location) to find the GPS rather than take the HC settings? I don't have GPS, so this is a guess on my part. But Starsense defaults to its factory settings if you miss ANY step. It also only offers one "first" chance to set location. I practiced setting up Starsense in daylight, didn't take off the camera lens cap (as it inevitably wouldn't find any stars!) and later found it had defaulted to California. The manual is terrible, but I now find Starsense to be awesomely accurate with both scopes having overcome all the teething problems you describe. From reading a US oriented forum I believe this is common challenge on first purchase. The guidance in the documentation is appalling.

One other thought,  the Starsense Camera and Firmware was updated in February and my Evolution mount's firmware in August. I bought both of Starsense in May, and both had  firmwar 15 months out of date. The same is true for a pal with a CPC. He bought his Starsense in September 2016. He updated his firmware this month and it all works fine after he too had some initial issues.  Starsense is brilliant, but is temperamental unless everything is spot on (including calibration).

The Starsense camera also normally takes three plates, but will attempt more if there are obstructions. It is instinctive to aim the OTA in its "home" position towards the most unobstructed horizon. So try aiming your OTA in its "home" position towards the most obstructed area. Then it will move the camera away from it. It took me a few attempts to discover the best direction in my heavily housing obscured back yard. Away at a broad horizon dark sky site it doesn't matter. 

ADDITION

Just read elsewhere that location is only 100% critical to an auto-align. If you do a Starsense 'manual align' (p13) which is designed to assist in severly obstructed areas then the Starsense will create it's own sky map and it works well in that area of sky where you have obtained these specific alignment images. That explains your better result in tgat mode. But it then might not be so accurate in other sky sectors. Starsense user auto align is the better way to go if there are multiple obstructions as you can then add multiple additional alignment points.

Also check your GPS is working accurately. My CPC owner pal has just mentioned to me that until he had earlier updated his CPC firmware it was returning the correct time/date but the wrong year. Also that until he changed Time/Location Source in the Starsense hand controller his was defaulting to the HC settings and not the CPCS GPS. Sorry about long rambling response exploring many possibilities, but that perhaps sounds like the most credible solution to your issue.

[Pat Warborg]

Hi,

Maybe a bit late, but I think people are still reading this. Well, I did...

What I'm missing in the description of how the Starsense initially was set up, is the calibration step. When I started with my Starsense, I did an auto align, then did a goto - which was pretty much off ( the starsense camera simply cannot "know" its alignment with the scope!) - so I manually centered the target and pressed align. This calibrates the alignment between Starsense camera and main scope. And there you go! Everything else was quite spot-on. I have no glue though, why it should have worked with the app without handcontroller. Unless the app "leads" you through the calibration step (what the hc definitely does not)...

Just another 2 cents...

CS,

Pat

[alanjgreen]

3 hours ago, Pat Warborg said:

Unless the app "leads" you through the calibration step (what the hc definitely does not)...

That is exactly what it does. The first time you use the app to control the starsense, starsense goes into the calibration routine.

The results are then stored in the app for next time.

 

[newbie alert]

My experience with starsense goes like this..first time out wasted night as manual(which is pants) said to remove the finder,did this..couldnt align and as didnt have a finder on couldnt do my normal alignment..2nd night after speaking to the shop i got it from and with the finder back on couldnt align and was spinning itself atound in a circle..not a wasted night as put it back in the box and did a normal alignment.. 3rd night..wasted again as couldnt align again..right thats it..this things going in the bin..wrote a snotty email to celestron and that took a week to respond..left in the box for over a month ..wasnt going to waste anymore time with it..i finally think it will work..but..cant find enough stars to solve..ive got high hopes with it..should work...

[Elsaesser]

Thanks for your posts that helped me in the same manner as the initial writer. My question is, what next?

So if I have done the initial calibration routine, which steps do I leave away the next time? It ask me always allign and connect. Do I have to do initial alignment again, when I'm changing the spot?

Thanks for some supplemental hints.

Martin form France

[noah4x4]

On 01/11/2017 at 17:31, Elsaesser said:

Thanks for your posts that helped me in the same manner as the initial writer. My question is, what next?

So if I have done the initial calibration routine, which steps do I leave away the next time? It ask me always allign and connect. Do I have to do initial alignment again, when I'm changing the spot?

Thanks for some supplemental hints.

Martin form France

From what you say I suspect you are using WiFi/tablet? 

If so, and if using SkyPortal or SkySafari APP, you will always <connect & align>. However, you should not need to recalibrate provided that your Starsense camera (e.g. if removed for transport) has been reaffixed tightly on its mounting shoe. 

Date/Time/Location etc will be taken from tablet.

[Badweather]

 

Hi Mick,

Glad you got that all sorted out!

I'm wishing my wifi portal worked but it arrived malfunctioning out of the box.

i gave up on the notion of not using android so there is little use in avoiding the wifi portal when your description of it no nicely sums up why a person would want it.

I am actually using my 8SE to show me the sky, while as a side project I use my binoculars to spot everything I can see with them, using the GOTO to confirm things.

I've found the constellation based approach, using Starry Night which also comes as part of the Celestron package to plot things out, I go out with a nice list of clusters around Cas, or a list in Scorpius/sagittarius etc. actually saves me battery power as I don't skip around the sky. When I'm in the neighborrhood of M31, I make all my stops in Cas as well as the objects on my list in Perseus as well for instance. You can then hop from constellation to constellation all around the sky.

On 10/22/2016 at 18:32, noah4x4 said:

My guess is that the above experience when using the HC simply describes a time/date/zone/daylight saving time user error that was eliminated by the tablet's GPS type functionality. The tablet simply replaces the HC (and vice versa). So if it works fine with a tablet it will do likewise with the HC.  All my initial GoTo's were 15° off because I had errored with DST. It's a common mistake.

I had this same problem.

And I did get the wifi portal, unfortunately, it is non-functional and needs to be returned.

And was going to get the gps alignment gadget as well.

But I decided that spending nearly $100 to avoid having to enter coordinates was just unnecessary, excessive, spending.

What I did find to be the main problem with the hand controller is errors in data entry because it's so hard to read. It's about ten years or more out of date actually. And so the wifi portal is kind of necessary for scope control to enter the 21st century.

With the HC, I would accidentally press enter on am rather than pm having pressed the down arrow key but not hard enough. Or maybe I needed to re-enter coordinates because I was at a different site the session prior and just breezed on through that choice since you have to select skyalign and then press back to get the choice of "custom site".

As I recall, there are 90 plus stars in the sky you can use to align with. They are all the brightest stars in the sky. At any given time you might be able to see 25 or more of them at a good site. Less in urban or suburban conditions. The (slightly?) over 90 stars includes stars in the southern celestial hemisphere, so I can imagine this is actually harder at a dark site if you're not aware of which 45 stars you can use.

When you can read by starlight.

Remember the stories about how many people call the fire dept. when the power shuts the entire city's lights off? People that have never seen the Milky Way think something is burning. And they are so right.