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Maximidius

Strangely silent

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Please forgive me for making this observation, and i hope that it is okay to do so. I certainly don't mean to upset the apple cart or anything, but i am compelled to ask the question. Why is it so quiet on this part of the site? well, when i mean quiet, i mean by responses. I noticed that there are a limited few who seem to have the majority of responses, but for the most part there seems to be very little interest or response in the images that are posted.

Is it because they are not part of what seems to be a clique? is it because they are snubbed due to not meeting certain standards as expected by those who are clearly in a position to produce some incredible images?. I don't know, but i feel compelled to say something.

I find it perplexing because i know that there are some amazing images that are produced and a vast amount of experience here, yet some posts have received no responses at all, yep NONE, NADA, NISH AND NOTHING!.

Just on the first page alone there were only 90 responses excluding those who obviously receive all the interest and are obviously highly respected because that will skew the data. But there was a total 1681 views amounting to an average of 4.5 responses per post which amounts to only 5.35% of people posting from the average number of views per thread. This is only on the first page, it gets worse as you dig deeper. If you look at it from a frequency point of view: 11 threads received only 0 - 4.99 responses ??? why??? and 7 threads received 5 - 9.99 responses and only 2 received above 10 and 0 above 15. This is abysmal, isn't it? is this an active forum where most posts receive only 0 - 4.99 responses?  

Shouldn't we as a community be actively encouraging our comrades? Helping them? Showing interest? not just liking but actively encouraging the development of a hobby that we are all so passionate about - with words? 

Once again please forgive me, i just wanted to express my pain and speak for those who are shown no interest. 

 

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I quite often just click, like this, because I cannot add anything useful.
If I post an image I don't expect loads of replies, if replies do come, hopefully they are helpful and not just saying great image.

Although if someone says great image I don't mind. :icon_biggrin:

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2 minutes ago, wxsatuser said:

I quite often just click, like this, because I cannot add anything useful.
If I post an image I don't expect loads of replies, if replies do come, hopefully they are helpful and not just saying great image.

Although if someone says great image I don't mind. :icon_biggrin:

I completely understand, It is tough with so many images posted and so many of similar or familiar targets. I know we don't all have a lot to say too, but some "great image" is better than nothing at all and of course, helpful comments are just as good :) . Personally i find this hobby to be tough at times and i certainly don't expect everyone to comment on images posted but some interest is better than no interest at all, and lots of "something" sure helps us to keep at it when times are tough. And i appreciate we all have lives, jobs, families, commitments and so on. So while we may not expect much in the way of posts, it is nice to receive some comments, no matter what they are and even better if it gives us something to learn from, or encouragement to keep at it. This is a community after all.

LMAO i sound like i'm preaching, god i hate preachers( i should take myself outside and give myself a dry slap lol )--sorry - it isn't my intent though, i was just looking through the pages and was quite surprised that's all and i felt compelled to speak - perhaps i should have said nothing or maybe i'm speaking out of turn ??

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I must admit I usually just click like, I dont comment a lot mainly due to not really knowing what im looking at and feel i havent the experiance to add or help with advice. Im a bit of " I know what i like and like what i see" syndrome! lol. I do like to get advice when I post so I should really return the favor, even if its just "nice! how did you do that!".

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6 minutes ago, simmo39 said:

I must admit I usually just click like, I dont comment a lot mainly due to not really knowing what im looking at and feel i havent the experiance to add or help with advice. Im a bit of " I know what i like and like what i see" syndrome! lol. I do like to get advice when I post so I should really return the favor, even if its just "nice! how did you do that!".

LOL too true, i usually find it harder to post on those images where the imager is one of those highly capable and respected imagers. I feel like whatever i say is worthless because they are waaaaaaay better than i am or probably ever will be lol. What can i possibly have to offer? They are the ones i find really tough to post on..... Regardless of who, if i like it, i'd like to tell them, and then as you say, perhaps they'll extend us the same courtesy. 

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Its funny, sometimes threads i post just 'take off' and others are, as you say 'strangely silent'. I think that there are a lot of really excellent images and imagers here and it is sometimes difficult to 'keep up' with it. As far as comments, if i find an image has a 'wow' factor for me, i'll comment. Also,if i think i can help,i'll comment. Trouble with me is that I only use DSLR's and have no idea of how to image and process ccd images. I must say that over the past couple of years, i have learnt loads and developed some improved skills. For that i mainly have this forum and SGL as a whole to thank. :hello2:

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11 minutes ago, StargeezerTim said:

Its funny, sometimes threads i post just 'take off' and others are, as you say 'strangely silent'. I think that there are a lot of really excellent images and imagers here and it is sometimes difficult to 'keep up' with it. As far as comments, if i find an image has a 'wow' factor for me, i'll comment. Also,if i think i can help,i'll comment. Trouble with me is that I only use DSLR's and have no idea of how to image and process ccd images. I must say that over the past couple of years, i have learnt loads and developed some improved skills. For that i mainly have this forum and SGL as a whole to thank. :hello2:

Yes, I guess that is true. I agree with your last sentiment too, as a community I believe this place has a huge amount to offer and without doubt some of the best imagers. Some truly awe inspiring images. Which of course, by their very nature will recieve the most interest. :) 

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I have noticed a certain amount of descrepency in the amount of comments of late although I doubt (at least I hope) that there is no "clique" involved. I know I comment less because usually I have nothing constructive to add. As a mod,  I should make more of an effort and for this I apologise. 
    Please don't ever feel that anyones contribution is any less valid than another. No one person is any more important to the forum than the next although obviously some are more experienced than others. If you have something to say, say it. 
   I also wonder how much poor weather and short nights has affected this.

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13 minutes ago, Scott said:

I have noticed a certain amount of descrepency in the amount of comments of late although I doubt (at least I hope) that there is no "clique" involved. I know I comment less because usually I have nothing constructive to add. As a mod,  I should make more of an effort and for this I apologise. 
    Please don't ever feel that anyones contribution is any less valid than another. No one person is any more important to the forum than the next although obviously some are more experienced than others. If you have something to say, say it. 
   I also wonder how much poor weather and short nights has affected this.

Thank you Scott :) ...I'm guessing that the terrible weather of late has something to do with it, it certainly can make us lethargic that's for sure. Your  points about the equality of individuals is a great point and certainly reminds us that we all have an important input and contribution to the forum reguardles of experience. 

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I usually post my images here. I have a personal scale that ranges from laughable to reasonable. Anything laughable or worse gets deleted. If its somewhere between laughable and reasonable then I post it.

I do this partly so I can easily show it it friends and colleagues but mostly so I can compare it to better renditions for other people so I can learn and improve my technique.

I have had several very helpful constructive comments from seriously experienced and talented imagers that has helped me enormously.

I certainly dont hold with any aspect of this forum being cliquey - quite the reverse.

The very first image I ever produced  2 years ago was a grainy vaguely pink blob that was barely recognizable as M42 - it was encouragement from people on here that inspired me and guided me (pun?) to improve and for that I am extremely grateful. In reality that image was pitiful and I am sure people were just being kind - but it worked !!  

We have also had a run of clear nights and maybe people are outside getting on with it or inside frantically processing ??

I dont ever click 'like' - if I have a feeling I usually express it - if I dont I keep quiet !  Sometimes its difficult though - I am never going to comment on an image by Sara Wager or Olly Penrice (and MANY others) and I dont feel I have the experience to comment on images where I know I could do better !! Preferable to say nothing than offer duff advice!!

I have to say that I really enjoy this forum and gain a great deal from it.  If you want cliquey then get your handbag ready and have a look at Cl**dy N*ghts !!!

 

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2 hours ago, Maximidius said:

LOL too true, i usually find it harder to post on those images where the imager is one of those highly capable and respected imagers. I feel like whatever i say is worthless because they are waaaaaaay better than i am or probably ever will be lol. What can i possibly have to offer? They are the ones i find really tough to post on..... Regardless of who, if i like it, i'd like to tell them, and then as you say, perhaps they'll extend us the same courtesy. 

That's a very valid point, but don't forget you could also ask questions relevant to the image, like how they had processed it for instance. That way you can perhaps learn something from it to help you improve?

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At some point I was even wondering if one of my post is visible to the others..

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Quite often you might seen a good image but have nothing to say. How many ways are there you can compliment someone on a nice image without sounding repetitive?

A whole page of comments like 'nice image' doesn't really sound sincere :smile:

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33 minutes ago, Stu said:

That's a very valid point, but don't forget you could also ask questions relevant to the image, like how they had processed it for instance. That way you can perhaps learn something from it to help you improve?

Indeed this is a good point for all of us, besides I am always keen to ask questions, especially if there is something that can be gained - believe me, I have a lot t to learn! :) 

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28 minutes ago, moise212 said:

At some point I was even wondering if one of my post is visible to the others..

 

Thank you for telling us how you feel :) 

It illustrates why I highlighted the statistical information. I noticed quite a few threads with 0 posts. and the majority on the first page at the time of counting the information fell in the 0 - 4.99 data range. (Which isn't subtracting the OP responses )

TBH I have felt the same way as you at times and have noticed a few comments from OP's subtly illustrating the lack of interest in their threads. 

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34 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

Quite often you might seen a good image but have nothing to say. How many ways are there you can compliment someone on a nice image without sounding repetitive?

A whole page of comments like 'nice image' doesn't really sound sincere :smile:

I know it is tough to be creative. Being a forum and having many members means that things will get repetitive, but if we all felt that way then nobody would say anything. 

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58 minutes ago, Skipper Billy said:

I usually post my images here. I have a personal scale that ranges from laughable to reasonable. Anything laughable or worse gets deleted. If its somewhere between laughable and reasonable then I post it.

I do this partly so I can easily show it it friends and colleagues but mostly so I can compare it to better renditions for other people so I can learn and improve my technique.

I have had several very helpful constructive comments from seriously experienced and talented imagers that has helped me enormously.

I certainly dont hold with any aspect of this forum being cliquey - quite the reverse.

The very first image I ever produced  2 years ago was a grainy vaguely pink blob that was barely recognizable as M42 - it was encouragement from people on here that inspired me and guided me (pun?) to improve and for that I am extremely grateful. In reality that image was pitiful and I am sure people were just being kind - but it worked !!  

We have also had a run of clear nights and maybe people are outside getting on with it or inside frantically processing ??

I dont ever click 'like' - if I have a feeling I usually express it - if I dont I keep quiet !  Sometimes its difficult though - I am never going to comment on an image by Sara Wager or Olly Penrice (and MANY others) and I dont feel I have the experience to comment on images where I know I could do better !! Preferable to say nothing than offer duff advice!!

I have to say that I really enjoy this forum and gain a great deal from it.  If you want cliquey then get your handbag ready and have a look at Cl**dy N*ghts !!!

 

Like you, I too have nothing but respect for those who post images and for the time taken to collect them and for the bravery of allowing the global face of the internet to critique or offer advice on them, or just say well done and good job. 

I'm not suggesting anyone should offer "duff" advice but every member is as valid as the next. So one mans gold is another's rubbish and vice versa. 

The point was the lack of responses to threads. 

Of course, reguarding this thread; nothing would please me more than to be completely wrong. :):) 

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11 hours ago, Maximidius said:

Please forgive me for making this observation, and i hope that it is okay to do so. I certainly don't mean to upset the apple cart or anything, but i am compelled to ask the question. Why is it so quiet on this part of the site? well, when i mean quiet, i mean by responses. I noticed that there are a limited few who seem to have the majority of responses, but for the most part there seems to be very little interest or response in the images that are posted.

Is it because they are not part of what seems to be a clique? is it because they are snubbed due to not meeting certain standards as expected by those who are clearly in a position to produce some incredible images?. I don't know, but i feel compelled to say something.

I find it perplexing because i know that there are some amazing images that are produced and a vast amount of experience here, yet some posts have received no responses at all, yep NONE, NADA, NISH AND NOTHING!.

Just on the first page alone there were only 90 responses excluding those who obviously receive all the interest and are obviously highly respected because that will skew the data. But there was a total 1681 views amounting to an average of 4.5 responses per post which amounts to only 5.35% of people posting from the average number of views per thread. This is only on the first page, it gets worse as you dig deeper. If you look at it from a frequency point of view: 11 threads received only 0 - 4.99 responses ??? why??? and 7 threads received 5 - 9.99 responses and only 2 received above 10 and 0 above 15. This is abysmal, isn't it? is this an active forum where most posts receive only 0 - 4.99 responses?  

Shouldn't we as a community be actively encouraging our comrades? Helping them? Showing interest? not just liking but actively encouraging the development of a hobby that we are all so passionate about - with words? 

Once again please forgive me, i just wanted to express my pain and speak for those who are shown no interest. 

 

I have asked the same question.  Sometimes it is really frustrating.  One works HARD to maker an image--hours, days, sometimes weeks.  Its exciting to post to hear criticism and accolades.  Then no one responds.  I don't think it is related to image quality--though the very best images people will take the time to say--"great job" More often than not, I just get some "likes"--which are not comments at all and before you know it, you image is on page 2 and forget it.

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Maximidius,

if that really is your name (why can´t people put their real names on SGL - what is the problem with that?), I think you started a very interesting thread that made me think about what posts get comments and what get apparently ignored. I try to see it positively, and my current thinking about this is that there are three main categories:

(1) The superstars (like Olly and Sara) that posts their latest masterpieces and get a lot of well deserved credit for that (positive comments), but obviously most of us have no advice to give.

(2) The beginners that posts images that clearly can be improved and also get a lot of comments in the form of feedback, since many of us easily spot mistakes that can be corrected.

(3) The rest of us, which are probably most of us (hence your sad statistics), that post decent images that are pretty and there is nothing obviously wrong with them. When I see them I usually press Like, but I do not see how I could make a constructive comment. You cannot tell them (including myself) the obvious that more data would slightly improve it and that the picture would be better if they had more high end telescopes, mounts and cameras. Still, if people writes a line saying that they like my image, I really appreciate it, and when I have posted an image that in hindsight clearly could be improved I even had people like Sara and Olly to tell me about it, and that really helped. Still, this middle-ground of images are likely to get less attention.

I think you brought up a very important issue and it made me check my last post, seeing that it had 79 views but only 8 comments and 8 likes. 8 comments/likes in this forum is not bad but does that mean that 71 viewers (almost 90%) did not like it?

Cheers

Göran (which is my real name)

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The real question to ask yourself is: "Why am I posting my image on on an internet forum?".

Is it:

  • Showing part of the night sky in a new light?
  • Recognition of the work you've done?
  • Appreciation of imaging an unusual target?
  • Or showing what amazing equipment or processing techniques that you possess.... etc?

If you really want feedback on your technical abilities, there is the "Getting started in imaging section", where replies are frequent. Other than that. I personally think that, in a large majority of cases, we are all looking to massage our egos to varying extents. ;) :evil:

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I don't think there is a single forum on the internet that doesn't have little "cliques" of members that know each other personally, and this includes this one, but that's inevitable I'm afraid.  Some are worse than others, granted, and to be honest I find this one pretty good, but of course if a personal friend, or someone you've met many times posts a picture, you're probably more likely to comment on it than you would someone you've never heard of.

I do see that some pictures don't get many comments, but I don't think that is a deliberate attempt to avoid a response, more just a way of saying there isn't much to say.

2 hours ago, gorann said:

why can´t people put their real names on SGL - what is the problem with that?

Because there would be 67 John Smiths.

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10 hours ago, gorann said:

Maximidius,

if that really is your name (why can´t people put their real names on SGL - what is the problem with that?), I think you started a very interesting thread that made me think about what posts get comments and what get apparently ignored. I try to see it positively, and my current thinking about this is that there are three main categories:

(1) The superstars (like Olly and Sara) that posts their latest masterpieces and get a lot of well deserved credit for that (positive comments), but obviously most of us have no advice to give.

(2) The beginners that posts images that clearly can be improved and also get a lot of comments in the form of feedback, since many of us easily spot mistakes that can be corrected.

(3) The rest of us, which are probably most of us (hence your sad statistics), that post decent images that are pretty and there is nothing obviously wrong with them. When I see them I usually press Like, but I do not see how I could make a constructive comment. You cannot tell them (including myself) the obvious that more data would slightly improve it and that the picture would be better if they had more high end telescopes, mounts and cameras. Still, if people writes a line saying that they like my image, I really appreciate it, and when I have posted an image that in hindsight clearly could be improved I even had people like Sara and Olly to tell me about it, and that really helped. Still, this middle-ground of images are likely to get less attention.

I think you brought up a very important issue and it made me check my last post, seeing that it had 79 views but only 8 comments and 8 likes. 8 comments/likes in this forum is not bad but does that mean that 71 viewers (almost 90%) did not like it?

Cheers

Göran (which is my real name)

Of course Maximidius is not my real name,,, lol if i told you, you wouldn't believe it anyway! It is probably more unusual than maximidius, lets just say my mother and father were LOTR fans and leave it at that.

Your points are well received and make sense so thank you for your input. 

PS - I hope the comment "hence your sad statistics" sad is a reflection of the stats and not of me as an individual :)... I'm a nice man, really i am lol. 

7 hours ago, Pompey Monkey said:

The real question to ask yourself is: "Why am I posting my image on on an internet forum?".

Is it:

  • Showing part of the night sky in a new light?
  • Recognition of the work you've done?
  • Appreciation of imaging an unusual target?
  • Or showing what amazing equipment or processing techniques that you possess.... etc?

If you really want feedback on your technical abilities, there is the "Getting started in imaging section", where replies are frequent. Other than that. I personally think that, in a large majority of cases, we are all looking to massage our egos to varying extents. ;) :evil:

I think 1 and 3 are difficult because we are all subject to what is available and our capabilities, However point 1, as individuals we do try to add our own distinctive style and flavour to what we produce, so every image has a sense of individuality pertaining to the person that produced it, meaning it is within us all to validate point two. Point 4: I don't know about anybody else, but my Tac and processing abilities are uuuurm - somewhat lacking lol. If i were really thinking that way, i would never post anything, my astro gear is modest at best and my processing skills less than.

So why do you come here? 

  • To look at pretty pictures and say nothing?
  • To Show off your pretty pictures and expect nothing ?
  • To show off your image in the hope that you will receive both recognition and advice  for the time that you have invested. 
  • To contribute to a "forum" to have a voice to be part of a thriving community ?
  • To assist in the development of others?
  • To share in a common interest ?

After all, this is the place where we can receive the most appreciation, the most valid feedback, the most help from the broadest range of people. I really like that and the experience that is offered here. Personally, i think place has some of the best imagers out there, with probably the least amount of ego or arrogance. :) 

7 hours ago, RayD said:

I don't think there is a single forum on the internet that doesn't have little "cliques" of members that know each other personally, and this includes this one, but that's inevitable I'm afraid.  Some are worse than others, granted, and to be honest I find this one pretty good, but of course if a personal friend, or someone you've met many times posts a picture, you're probably more likely to comment on it than you would someone you've never heard of.

I do see that some pictures don't get many comments, but I don't think that is a deliberate attempt to avoid a response, more just a way of saying there isn't much to say.

Because there would be 67 John Smiths.

I agree, and I'll be honest, perhaps my choice of word "clique" may not have been the best, it can invoke bad feelings and that wasn't my intent. You do raise some interesting points though and your comment about 67 John smiths was very funny lol. 

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What a great thread!! I agree with much of what has been said, especially the reasons for posting images. 

One thing is certain, if I hadn't happened upon this forum I wouldn't be where I am today.... lost and confused!! :happy11:

No really , I mean I would never have dream't that images of the sort that are posted here were possible with relatively inexpensive kit, and if it weren't for the help I've received here I would have given up ages ago.

With regard to being "cliquey" I'm not so sure. Inevitably if someone who's style or sense of humour (or whatever) you recognise makes a post, then you're probably more likely to join in. And this maybe makes it appear cliquey. 

More importantly, those like Olly P who are virtual "Pro's" seem happy to offer constructive advice freely. Similarly many of the software producers are happy to answer queries without making you feel like either an idiot or a nuisance. (Guilty on both counts)

With regard to contributing advice to others, I'm sure many folk, myself included, hesitate to offer advice when there are others out there who know better. That said, a few words of encouragement cost nothing. 

Also, because the forum is so successful with frequent new threads, sometimes a thread disappears from the first page quickly and then remains unnoticed. I've read and posted in threads which appeared completely inert, which then suddenly take on a life of their own - kind of positive feedback type loop.

PS Maximidius - I had to google "LOTR".  Initially I  thought it might be something to do with London rail network.

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34 minutes ago, Tommohawk said:

What a great thread!! I agree with much of what has been said, especially the reasons for posting images. 

One thing is certain, if I hadn't happened upon this forum I wouldn't be where I am today.... lost and confused!! :happy11:

No really , I mean I would never have dream't that images of the sort that are posted here were possible with relatively inexpensive kit, and if it weren't for the help I've received here I would have given up ages ago.

With regard to being "cliquey" I'm not so sure. Inevitably if someone who's style or sense of humour (or whatever) you recognise makes a post, then you're probably more likely to join in. And this maybe makes it appear cliquey. 

More importantly, those like Olly P who are virtual "Pro's" seem happy to offer constructive advice freely. Similarly many of the software producers are happy to answer queries without making you feel like either an idiot or a nuisance. (Guilty on both counts)

With regard to contributing advice to others, I'm sure many folk, myself included, hesitate to offer advice when there are others out there who know better. That said, a few words of encouragement cost nothing. 

Also, because the forum is so successful with frequent new threads, sometimes a thread disappears from the first page quickly and then remains unnoticed. I've read and posted in threads which appeared completely inert, which then suddenly take on a life of their own - kind of positive feedback type loop.

PS Maximidius - I had to google "LOTR".  Initially I  thought it might be something to do with London rail network.

I completely understand what you mean about the help that we receive being invaluable, i feel the same way too. In fact, it is directly because of forums like this that i got into astrophotography. It was like a rude awakening. Rude because my bank account went into shock, and an awakening with the realisation that we can actually do this from home or from our favourite dark site. So yes, the advice and the broad range of experience offered is incredible; coupled-up with the fact that we are fortunate to have some amazing astrophotographers and software experts here.

I've been on this site two years now and i frequent other places too, this is by far the best in terms of the quality of images that are produced,  but can be unbelievably quiet at times (by quiet i mean responses or replies). I have found it to be perplexing to say the least. Which is only compounded by 0 post threads and subtle hints at the lack of interest in others posts. Which lead me to do a quick rough check on the stats and post this thread.

And yes again, you are right, advice might not be the forte of everyone, especially if one is lacking in experience or confidence,  but encouragement costs nothing, yet is worth it's weight in gold as is solid advice.

Just as an afterthought, i nearly fell off my chair when i read " I had to google "LOTR".  Initially I  thought it might be something to do with London rail network." If my parents were fans of the london rail network, things could have been considerably worse for me lol. 

Thank you for your contribution Tommohawk :) 

Edited by Maximidius

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I do accept it must be demoralising if you were expecting helpful comments but didn't receive any, but you really need to ask for feedback if you want it - and even better if you can ask a direct question (like, 'what do you think of the colours in this?' type of thing) as that clarifies the situation. Don't forget to add details of equipment and how the image data was aquired. For sure, before I will personally wade in with critique and (hopefully) helpful advice I need to know that the poster doesn't consider their effort to be a masterpiece merely awaiting applause - I would hate to add discouragement by saying anything bad :)  Otherwise, I'll wait and see how the thread develops. Obviously for those images that strike me as outstanding I'll add congratulations regardless. Anything in the middle range of quality it would be good to hear what the poster themselves think of it, and if any personal hurdles were overcome to get there.

However, a problem (I find) with this forum is the sheer size of it and the large number of users contributing. If I don't log on for a couple of days then the volume of posts is such that sometimes I simply don't have the time to catch up and so just mark the entire site as read!

ChrisH

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