Strangely silent

[Helen]

Interesting thread.... and perhaps a wake up call for the forum more generally.  The way we use the forum (and other fora) is undoubtedly changing and we need to be sure that we don't lose what we have as a result.  Personally, I read far more now on my phone or tablet rather than on my pc, and as a result post less (both in number of threads and the number of words!) because it is trickier than with a keyboard (where I am now).  I tend to 'like' rather than comment.   The forum would rapidly die if everyone was like me!   But this thread has also raised an issue I hadn't thought about before....  When I read, I start with the unread content - likes don't bump the thread in the same way as comments, so if I miss it when it is first posted then my only real chance of catching it is if someone else posts.  

So, I suppose the message for me is that because I (we?) value the forum and want it to survive and grow I need to actively contribute much more often.

Thanks for raising the issue!!

Helen

[Maximidius]

7 minutes ago, ChrisLX200 said:

I do accept it must be demoralising if you were expecting helpful comments but didn't receive any, but you really need to ask for feedback if you want it - and even better if you can ask a direct question (like, 'what do you think of the colours in this?' type of thing) as that clarifies the situation. Don't forget to add details of equipment and how the image data was aquired. For sure, before I will personally wade in with critique and (hopefully) helpful advice I need to know that the poster doesn't consider their effort to be a masterpiece merely awaiting applause - I would hate to add discouragement by saying anything bad   Otherwise, I'll wait and see how the thread develops. Obviously for those images that strike me as outstanding I'll add congratulations regardless. Anything in the middle range of quality it would be good to hear what the poster themselves think of it, and if any personal hurdles were overcome to get there.

However, a problem (I find) with this forum is the sheer size of it and the large number of users contributing. If I don't log on for a couple of days then the volume of posts is such that sometimes I simply don't have the time to catch up and so just mark the entire site as read!

ChrisH

Hey Chris, thanks for wading in on this one. Those are great points and i guess for those of us who would like some feedback, important to remember.

Regarding masterpieces. I guess if we specify a "masterpiece" by comparison to those images that are clearly at the top of the imaging chain, than we all fall short. But from personal effort, even if it is not considered a "masterpiece", if it is done with our best efforts then surely that is to be applauded for the time taken and the journey made, masterpiece or not . We don't all have 10 micron, multi thousands of pounds worth of equipment from which to produce "masterpieces", we don't all have home observatories (i for one have to carry my stuff up and down 14 floors and drive for 40 mins each way) but does that make what we produce any less valuable to the producer of said image? My images are most definitely not masterpieces and for the most part junk by comparison to what is a masterpiece, but im proud of it all the same and happy to receive comments from those who produce masterpieces of which i admire. Like your good self  

[Maximidius]

12 minutes ago, Helen said:

Interesting thread.... and perhaps a wake up call for the forum more generally.  The way we use the forum (and other fora) is undoubtedly changing and we need to be sure that we don't lose what we have as a result.  Personally, I read far more now on my phone or tablet rather than on my pc, and as a result post less (both in number of threads and the number of words!) because it is trickier than with a keyboard (where I am now).  I tend to 'like' rather than comment.   The forum would rapidly die if everyone was like me!   But this thread has also raised an issue I hadn't thought about before....  When I read, I start with the unread content - likes don't bump the thread in the same way as comments, so if I miss it when it is first posted then my only real chance of catching it is if someone else posts.  

So, I suppose the message for me is that because I (we?) value the forum and want it to survive and grow I need to actively contribute much more often.

Thanks for raising the issue!!

Helen

Thank you so very much Helen  ...I haven't and couldn't have said it better myself. 

[Sp@ce_d]

25 minutes ago, Maximidius said:

Thank you so very much Helen  ...I haven't and couldn't have said it better myself. 

Hmm.. Helens post has just made me realise how much less I've been on here since the Tapatalk support was dropped too

[Maximidius]

10 minutes ago, Sp@ce_d said:

Hmm.. Helens post has just made me realise how much less I've been on here since the Tapatalk support was dropped too

Food for thought then  ...It's tough sometimes, after all we do have lives and families too, and astronomy does cut into that sacred period where most urm "normal" people are sleeping lol.

[Paul73]

I am a visual only chap. So have no reason to be I this part of the forum, except that I really enjoy the images. The like button gets hit if I like it. I can add nothing technical. But if I were qualified, I would feel a bit uneasy about offering constructive advice unless the OP has specifically requested feedback.

Paul

[ollypenrice]

This is a good and necessary thread and sees me agreeing with Helen. I'll be a bit more pro-active in this section.

However, I think that SGL is about as un-cliquey a community as I have ever encountered. How can a forum become cliquey? I guess it might do so if the clique talked to each other off the forum to prepare responses before positing. Now I have lots of conversations with members off the forum because I know so many personally as guests at my place. I'll also swap 'work in progress' efforts with a few people because a picture might not be ready or to my liking. Also, very very exceptionally, I might discuss suspected plagiarism off the forum because dirty washing is best aired in private and this is a nice place to hang your clean washing! But I have never intitiated or been asked to participate in any prepared responding or posting. Literally never, and I only thought of this fact in writing this response.

I know that I'm not the only person on here to receive quite a few PMs with specific requests for advice and I thoroughly enjoy doing what I can to respond. Others feel just the same way. Also lots of experienced imagers write quite lengthy responses to imaging questions in the beginner or other sections. So the help and input is here on SGL but not, perhaps, in this section. Elsewhere the forum is awash with helpful responses.

I try very hard not to do the 'nice image' thing and prefer to make a specific comment when I do say something. On the other hand, is this the place to say, 'Well, you need to improve focus, take ten times as many subs, use flats, avoid black clipping and tighten up your guiding.' It could get a bit heavy!!

I think the OP has made a valid wake up call, though, and I'm listening.

Olly

[Maximidius]

6 minutes ago, Paul73 said:

I am a visual only chap. So have no reason to be I this part of the forum, except that I really enjoy the images. The like button gets hit if I like it. I can add nothing technical. But if I were qualified, I would feel a bit uneasy about offering constructive advice unless the OP has specifically requested feedback.

Paul

I agree, it is tricky and can be ill received, so i tend to shy away from offering advice myself, internet language and typed words seldom convey the full intent and can be easily misread or misunderstood. Good points

3 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

This is a good and necessary thread and sees me agreeing with Helen. I'll be a bit more pro-active in this section.

However, I think that SGL is about as un-cliquey a community as I have ever encountered. How can a forum become cliquey? I guess it might do so if the clique talked to each other off the forum to prepare responses before positing. Now I have lots of conversations with members off the forum because I know so many personally as guests at my place. I'll also swap 'work in progress' efforts with a few people because a picture might not be ready or to my liking. Also, very very exceptionally, I might discuss suspected plagiarism off the forum because dirty washing is best aired in private and this is a nice place to hang your clean washing! But I have never intitiated or been asked to participate in any prepared responding or posting. Literally never, and I only thought of this fact in writing this response.

I know that I'm not the only person on here to receive quite a few PMs with specific requests for advice and I thoroughly enjoy doing what I can to respond. Others feel just the same way. Also lots of experienced imagers write quite lengthy responses to imaging questions in the beginner or other sections. So the help and input is here on SGL but not, perhaps, in this section. Elsewhere the forum is awash with helpful responses.

I try very hard not to do the 'nice image' thing and prefer to make a specific comment when I do say something. On the other hand, is this the place to say, 'Well, you need to improve focus, take ten times as many subs, use flats, avoid black clipping and tighten up your guiding.' It could get a bit heavy!!

I think the OP has made a valid wake up call, though, and I'm listening.

Olly

Forgive me Olly, my intent wasn't to cause any offence and i have already intimated that my use of the word "Cliquey" may have been unjust. But your points are well read and received. It's is easy to miss the PM's that fly around when collating stats (as limited as they are) to quickly illustrate a point. Nevertheless, thank you for listening and for your participation on this thread and forum. 

[ollypenrice]

Just now, Maximidius said:

I agree, it is tricky and can be ill received, so i tend to shy away from offering advice myself, internet language and typed words seldom convey the full intent and can be easily misread or misunderstood. Good points

Forgive me Olly, my intent wasn't to cause any offence and i have already intimated that my use of the word "Cliquey" may have been unjust. But your points are well read and received. It's is easy to miss the PM's that fly around when collating stats (as limited as they are) to quickly illustrate a point. Nevertheless, thank you for listening and for your participation on this thread and forum. 

I wasn't taking the term 'cliquey' to be offensive and you originally framed it as a question anyway. I think asking if SGL might be cliquey is a perfectly valid question to which I think 'no' is a perfectly vaid answer.

So no worries on that score. To be honest, on reading your opening post I felt part of me thinking 'That's a bit much' but as I read on you won me round. Taking the trouble to do the stats made all the difference to the power of your post. Chapeau. I like participating in SGL and think we should all take good care of it.

Olly

 

[barkis]

There was a time when  Imaging was huge here,  a thriving Picture Of The Week competition was the driving force behind it.  Members regularly featured in the Astronomy Magazines,  and rewarded with their achievements highlighted in our Published Members Section.  Of course not just Imaging led the charge,  many had their recorded observing sessions also published,  Letters to the Editor,  also a popular feature frequented by members comments on various topics. 

Imaging still thrives on our forum,  and hopefully the Imaging Competition will be reinstated,  but probably a Monthly affair.   Much has taken place on SGL,  not least the complete installing of new software, and much else that did,  and still does occupy a great deal of Admins. time. So please don't be disheartened,  the future is bright,  and the Buzz will return.                                                              As for comments,  or more to the point,  the lack of them,  of course it's sad when a few words can't be written to at least recognize the effort someone has made to bring a picture of a deep sky object to our page.  A little goes a long way,  and everyone likes to be noticed.     Of course some images are so professional in their production, words seem to fail us.   However,  the authors of these super Images know full well their capabilities,  and certainly wouldn't be miffed if a comment fell short in praise.                                                               I have no Idea how many Likes have been issued by members,  it must be thousands,  but let's face it,  it is an easy way out.  Personally,  I don't care much for it,  and I know I am in the minority,  and a bit of a fraud,  because I do use it too,  although I would not miss it if it disappeared. 

Anyway,  chins up guys and gals,  things can only get better.    It's quite good now isn't it??     And a Star Party coming up this month too. 

[ChrisLX200]

1 hour ago, Maximidius said:

Hey Chris, thanks for wading in on this one. Those are great points and i guess for those of us who would like some feedback, important to remember.

Regarding masterpieces. I guess if we specify a "masterpiece" by comparison to those images that are clearly at the top of the imaging chain, than we all fall short. But from personal effort, even if it is not considered a "masterpiece", if it is done with our best efforts then surely that is to be applauded for the time taken and the journey made, masterpiece or not . We don't all have 10 micron, multi thousands of pounds worth of equipment from which to produce "masterpieces", we don't all have home observatories (i for one have to carry my stuff up and down 14 floors and drive for 40 mins each way) but does that make what we produce any less valuable to the producer of said image? My images are most definitely not masterpieces and for the most part junk by comparison to what is a masterpiece, but im proud of it all the same and happy to receive comments from those who produce masterpieces of which i admire. Like your good self  

Perhaps 'masterpiece' was the wrong word! I'm just trying to differentiate between those looking for feedback and those not looking for anything other than... shall we say, positive feedback on their finished image   I've made that mistake in the past which makes me wary of saying anything which may be construed as being critical without knowing they really want to hear it. Treading on eggshells if you like. It makes a difference if I know the person (or rather, have exchanged posts in a thread previously) and understand where they're coming from. The bottom line is that people are different and react in different ways and until you're familiar even a joke may be misinterpreted (there was one very recently which Rodd will know all about!)

I had to go back and check which sub-forum this thread is posted in! (I browse 'Unread Posts' which groups them all together) and it is indeed the DeepSky Images section and not any of the beginners sections.

ChrisH

[Maximidius]

2 minutes ago, ChrisLX200 said:

Perhaps 'masterpiece' was the wrong word! I'm just trying to differentiate between those looking for feedback and those not looking for anything other than... shall we say, positive feedback on their finished image   I've made that mistake in the past which makes me wary of saying anything which may be construed as being critical without knowing they really want to hear it. Treading on eggshells if you like. It makes a difference if I know the person (or rather, have exchanged posts in a thread previously) and understand where they're coming from. The bottom line is that people are different and react in different ways and until you're familiar even a joke may be misinterpreted (there was one very recently which Rodd will know all about!)

I had to go back and check which sub-forum this thread is posted in! (I browse 'Unread Posts' which groups them all together) and it is indeed the DeepSky Images section and not any of the beginners sections.

ChrisH

Chris, i completely agree . The internet can be a fickle place sometimes and what's written can easily be misread and offence can easily be taken. I've certainly been guilty of that myself. Your point is well received buddy.  

[Maximidius]

15 minutes ago, barkis said:

There was a time when  Imaging was huge here,  a thriving Picture Of The Week competition was the driving force behind it.  Members regularly featured in the Astronomy Magazines,  and rewarded with their achievements highlighted in our Published Members Section.  Of course not just Imaging led the charge,  many had their recorded observing sessions also published,  Letters to the Editor,  also a popular feature frequented by members comments on various topics. 

Imaging still thrives on our forum,  and hopefully the Imaging Competition will be reinstated,  but probably a Monthly affair.   Much has taken place on SGL,  not least the complete installing of new software, and much else that did,  and still does occupy a great deal of Admins. time. So please don't be disheartened,  the future is bright,  and the Buzz will return.                                                              As for comments,  or more to the point,  the lack of them,  of course it's sad when a few words can't be written to at least recognize the effort someone has made to bring a picture of a deep sky object to our page.  A little goes a long way,  and everyone likes to be noticed.     Of course some images are so professional in their production, words seem to fail us.   However,  the authors of these super Images know full well their capabilities,  and certainly wouldn't be miffed if a comment fell short in praise.                                                               I have no Idea how many Likes have been issued by members,  it must be thousands,  but let's face it,  it is an easy way out.  Personally,  I don't care much for it,  and I know I am in the minority,  and a bit of a fraud,  because I do use it too,  although I would not miss it if it disappeared. 

Anyway,  chins up guys and gals,  things can only get better.    It's quite good now isn't it??     And a Star Party coming up this month too. 

Thank you!  

[Sp@ce_d]

Well, my understanding at least, is this is more for showcasing your images anyway... I'd post here for critique etc.. https://stargazerslounge.com/forum/40-imaging-image-processing-help-and-techniques/

But didn't we used to have "Image of the week" for various categories too? ... mind you if I remember correctly. that also got slated for elitism at some point?.. You cant please all of the people, its a very difficult thing to get the balance right... but something does need to freshen things up in here I agree

Ok.. deleted rest of my post as I'm so slow at formulating & typing my posts you lot post ahead & beat me too it

One thing about hitting the "like" is that a lot of times I really want to say something meaningful & different but cant think of anything & hit the like. I'd rather not sound repetitively condescending with the "Well done you" type of response ( or post farming & thats just the way I am BTW.. dont anybody take offence, its not aimed anywhere!).

[RayD]

4 minutes ago, Sp@ce_d said:

or post farming

What's post farming?

[Sp@ce_d]

2 minutes ago, RayD said:

What's post farming?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Post farming

 

Now you've got me doing it

 

[RayD]

Ah Ok I see.  Forgive my ignorance, but what would be the purpose of doing it?  Do you gain benefits on here for having more posts?

[Maximidius]

 

2 minutes ago, RayD said:

Ah Ok I see.  Forgive my ignorance, but what would be the purpose of doing it?  Do you gain benefits on here for having more posts?

Maybe this is one of those moments where language is misconstrued but i think he is being mean - it does seem ad hominem. I'd like to be wrong though. 

[happy-kat]

The same can be said of DIY threads, can be many project updates and no replies. I've just assumed either no  one was interested or no one wanted to add anything

[Sp@ce_d]

2 minutes ago, Maximidius said:

 

Maybe this is one of those moments where language is misconstrued but i think he is being mean - it does seem ad hominem. I'd like to be wrong though. 

Huh.. actually that hadn't occurred to me.. No, we're getting into that interweb realm of the wrong path now... basically, for instance if you wanted to get enough posts to use the classifieds for instance or you just like a big post count. The Mods normally pick up on it anyway & adjust accordingly. I was just using it as an example of why sometimes I am stuck for words & would rather just say "Like".. thats all

 

[RayD]

5 minutes ago, Sp@ce_d said:

Huh.. actually that hadn't occurred to me.. No, we're getting into that interweb realm of the wrong path now... basically, for instance if you wanted to get enough posts to use the classifieds for instance or you just like a big post count. The Mods normally pick up on it anyway & adjust accordingly. I was just using it as an example of why sometimes I am stuck for words & would rather just say "Like".. thats all

Ok understood.  I'm not new to forums but it's a term I'd never heard of.

I'm not selling anything so I guess I would have nothing to gain, so perhaps I should start using the like button 

[Maximidius]

2 minutes ago, Sp@ce_d said:

Huh.. actually that hadn't occurred to me.. No, we're getting into that interweb realm of the wrong path now... basically, for instance if you wanted to get enough posts to use the classifieds for instance or you just like a big post count. The Mods normally pick up on it anyway & adjust accordingly. I was just using it as an example of why sometimes I am stuck for words & would rather just say "Like".. thats all

 

Really - Thats good, then you've restored my faith in humanity and I'm happy to stand corrected  

[johnrt]

I don't know if the imaging here on the forum is any less "thriving" than when I joined in Jan 2010, the standard at the top end has never been better in my opinion. Some of the images posted here in the last 6 months alone - from galaxy closeups & widefield mosaic marathons, to discovering parts of nebula unseen before and the dusty fields of Cepheus have been nothing but outstanding.

Perhaps there are less up coming intermediate level imagers on the forum at the moment, who tend to post more and ask more questions in their quest to improve? The more experienced maybe tend to have more settled set ups and ask fewer questions, maybe only pop in to post images?

 

[Tommohawk]

Some useful posts above. I want to hit the "like" button... but....

[Helen]

2 minutes ago, Tommohawk said:

Some useful posts above. I want to hit the "like" button... but....

I've been resisting.... but you got me!!!