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Alan White

Televue 32mm Plossl - Dissapointed

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I use the Meade 4000 32mm Plössl and it's excellent.

Anyone paying an extra £100 over that for a Plössl has been mugged ;)

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1 hour ago, Alan White said:

Dave (F15rules) and Ben (Ben the Sane) you are both saying this about the ES and Ben said the same before I bought the TV.
I should perhaps have listened. 
 

Hi Alan,

I've owned several TV 32mm plossls and really liked them. But I didn't pay anything like £143 for them (I paid about £100 last time I bought one new, they go used for around £70-£80 max). I also didn't have a problem with the eye relief myself, although I did find the 50 deg field quite narrow, having now moved to eps with a minimum 60 deg up to 76 deg.

If you can return the unit to the Widescreen Centre (without hurting your wife's feelings of course), I genuinely would recommend the ES 24 68. But if you can't, don't beat yourself up - the TV 32 is a fine eyepiece, so worth investing in the extender as it will last you literally a lifetime.

Just enjoy your new toy!


Dave

 

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The extenders do pop up used from time to time. Might be worth a wanted ad?

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14 hours ago, Ruud said:

32 mm Plössls have a long eye relief and may take some time to get used to, especially when the exit pupil is close in size to the user's pupil. 

Kidney beaning, however, should not happen with TeleVue or any other Plössls as they tend to have well behaved exit pupils. (Kidney beaning comes from spherical aberration of the exit pupil. Until the first generation Naglers this was a rare phenomenon.) Could it be blackouts that you're seeing?

I have a 32mm GSO Plössl. Had some blackouts at first, but got used to the eyepiece, and the blackouts disappeared. I think you too may get used to your 32mm Plössl.

Here is how blackouts occur.

Blackout.gif

With long eye relief, steady eye placement becomes difficult. The movements of the eye cause blackouts in which the image disappears from one side to the other. When the image is partially illuminated, it is as if a curtain is drawn over one side of the image

Here is how kidney beans occur

kidney bean.gif

With kidney beaning a kidney shaped shadow forms between the centre and the edge of the field, while both centre and edge remain fully illuminated. Kidney beans arise from even subtle eye movements, especially with larger exit pupils. When the eye movements get larger, blackouts will also occur.

Below, a kidney bean occurs as one of the red rays can not enter the eye, yet the more extreme off-centre green ray still can. (The brain inverts what's on the retina, hence the shadow appears below the centre.)

kidney bean demo.png

 

Fortunately, spherical aberration of the exit pupil is, to a large extent, a thing of the past.

 

 

 

Where do these great graphics come from?

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That said, it will genuinely make a massive difference and a 32mm plossl deserves a place in everyone's kit. I am considering a pair of TV 32mm's for my binoviewers in the future and would certainly buy used and buy the extenders for sure.

Maybe wait a few weeks and then get one. It won't sting as much then and you'll both be happy.

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Just now, michaelmorris said:

Where do these great graphics come from?

Hi, I made them in Geogebra. It's a freeware tool used in maths education.

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21 minutes ago, Moonshane said:

That said, it will genuinely make a massive difference and a 32mm plossl deserves a place in everyone's kit. I am considering a pair of TV 32mm's for my binoviewers in the future and would certainly buy used and buy the extenders for sure.

Maybe wait a few weeks and then get one. It won't sting as much then and you'll both be happy.

I've been looking out for a second 32TV Plossl for binoviewing, should have bought it a while ago by the look of it.

I definitely need the extender.

Dave

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I've always thought the 32mm TV was excellent in use and, depending on scope, saw it as my first EP of choice for low power viewing. It has a large eye lens and a huge field stop. I don't think I've used a better 32mm Plossl. I'm glad I bought mine a while ago though as they seem over priced now for a Plossl. For me, it was a matter of adjusting to the eye relief. I do think there are probably better (and possibly less expensive) alternatives nowadays to it though.

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I've been using a 30mm Takahashi LE lately which seems a very nice 1.25" low power eyepiece. Similar in performance to the 32mm TV plossl I'd say. Even more costly to buy new though :rolleyes2:

Edited by John

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6 hours ago, Alan White said:

Spike 95609 How do you deal with the eyerelief on your 32mm TV?

I see you have Vixen SLV at shorter FL, is the twist out eyepiece the solution to eyeplacement on these?

Honestly I've never really had to deal with it. I don't know if it's my scope or perhaps I have an unusually steady head, but I've never registered it as a problem to keep it under control. On a side issue a few people have mentioned the brightness of the 32mm being a problem, but even in my light polluted skies when I'm trying to find a faint galaxy, I can still usually detect enough hints of it in the 32mm to go straight to it with the 10mm SLV.

The twist-up eyecups on the Vixens are always used, they're very handy for burying my face into the eyepiece without worrying about making contact with the glass. With the prices of TV Plossls at the moment, if I had to do it all over again I'd probably just get an equivalent set of SLVs and maybe a wide field 25mm. SLVs have also gone up in price, but at the time I purchased my TVs I could get 1.5 or 2 plossls for the cost of a single SLV. Now they're much closer, and their lovely eye-relief, eyecups and parfocal features make a persuasive case.

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22 hours ago, Ruud said:

32 mm Plössls have a long eye relief and may take some time to get used to, especially when the exit pupil is close in size to the user's pupil. 

Kidney beaning, however, should not happen with TeleVue or any other Plössls as they tend to have well behaved exit pupils. (Kidney beaning comes from spherical aberration of the exit pupil. Until the first generation Naglers this was a rare phenomenon.) Could it be blackouts that you're seeing?

I have a 32mm GSO Plössl. Had some blackouts at first, but got used to the eyepiece, and the blackouts disappeared. I think you too may get used to your 32mm Plössl.

Here is how blackouts occur.

Blackout.gif

With long eye relief, steady eye placement becomes difficult. The movements of the eye cause blackouts in which the image disappears from one side to the other. When the image is partially illuminated, it is as if a curtain is drawn over one side of the image

Here is how kidney beans occur

kidney bean.gif

With kidney beaning a kidney shaped shadow forms between the centre and the edge of the field, while both centre and edge remain fully illuminated. Kidney beans arise from even subtle eye movements, especially with larger exit pupils. When the eye movements get larger, blackouts will also occur.

Below, a kidney bean occurs as one of the red rays can not enter the eye, yet the more extreme off-centre green ray still can. (The brain inverts what's on the retina, hence the shadow appears below the centre.)

kidney bean demo.png

 

Fortunately, spherical aberration of the exit pupil is, to a large extent, a thing of the past.

 

 

 

Thanks for posting this Ruud :thumbsup:

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On 06/10/2016 at 12:41, F15Rules said:

return the unit to the Widescreen Centre

Definitely!

If it's only a few weeks and used once and Widscreen Centre are anywhere near as excellent as FLO, there shouldn't be a problem. :)

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What a great thread.  I've got a 32mm as well, and while it's my default low power eyepiece I have to work hard to position my eye and usually wear my glasses, which means stray light can easily get in.  Interesting that  the eye relief is too much for a lot of people; I find that too and was worried whether I'd cope with upgrading to Ethos etc.

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2 hours ago, FenlandPaul said:

What a great thread.  I've got a 32mm as well, and while it's my default low power eyepiece I have to work hard to position my eye and usually wear my glasses, which means stray light can easily get in.  Interesting that  the eye relief is too much for a lot of people; I find that too and was worried whether I'd cope with upgrading to Ethos etc.

I had galaxy hunting sessions a couple of years back where a 32mm TV plossl was the only eyepiece I used all night long. I was using an eyecup extender though which makes a lot of differing to the ease of eye positioning with this particular eyepiece.

FWIW all the Ethos eyepieces have 7mm less eyerelief than the 32mm plossl - the 15mm that the Ethos have can make it difficult for those wearing glasses when observing to see the full field of view but that is a slightly different issue I think.

 

 

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Never tried it, but for an F5 telescope, I'd prefer a smaller exit pupil unless I observe from a dark location.

Under average skies, something around 25mm would work better as low power eyepiece I feel.

Just my opinion.

Piero

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Hello. I will put my 2pence into the post if members don't mind. I think this post has shown some people get on with the 32mm TV plossl ,and  others do not . I consider it for a variety of reasons, we are all different, some were glasses some don't. Some like long eye relief some don't . Some get problems with blackouts and kidney beaning ,some don't. Reason why as we are all different and we all have different eyes some of our eyes are different or better or worse to the next person. And we all have different preferences and our likes and dislikes can vary widely to view eye position ,close like or dislike, long eye relief like dislike.

This who!e thread to me has shown that we all have individual eyes and as such as I have said before in posts if you can try an eyepiece before you buy. Then please do. As with the higher price eyepieces this is more important as you are making a considerable investment, and even though the eyepiece may be great ,to your individual eyes it may not perform to your eyes.

This is also true with scopes I get the feeling some people buy a premium eyepiece and think this is going to transform there scope set up. For anyone who has been in the hobby for long enough then we all know about the diminishing scale of returns on eyepieces cost to great view. Just because you pay maybe 4 times more for an certain eyepiece compared to your existing eyepiece. This does not mean you are going to get 4 times better views . As this just does not happen. You may pay 4 times more but for example you may only make a viewable gain of 10% over your existing eyepiece. If this is a price worth paying is up to the individual.

I have used the 32mm TV in Cyclops mode in my 120ed apo and it was very good. I have used the 32mm TV in my Binoviewers and again very good. I have used the 32mm TV in the 4.7 f 14 dob again very good. Is that my eyes ? My scopes ? or the eyepiece? In my opinion it is a combination of all three. It suits my eyes, it suits my scopes and it is a well figured and well made eyepiece. So I am very happy with the tv32 mm but I did by used and as I have said elsewhere I think the televue prices are beginning to be hard to justify. But as I brought used I am very happy with my TV 32mm

As your scope set up is only as good as the weakest link in the optical chain. This could be your eyes,scope,eyepiece. Just my opinion. Thanks☺

 

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1 hour ago, Timebandit said:

  ... as I have said elsewhere I think the televue prices are beginning to be hard to justify.

 

The recent spike in TV prices is difficult to justify IMO. Whether it was because of Brexit or any other reason, I think they're in danger of pricing themselves off the market.

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9 hours ago, John said:

I had galaxy hunting sessions a couple of years back where a 32mm TV plossl was the only eyepiece I used all night long. I was using an eyecup extender though which makes a lot of differing to the ease of eye positioning with this particular eyepiece.

FWIW all the Ethos eyepieces have 7mm less eyerelief than the 32mm plossl - the 15mm that the Ethos have can make it difficult for those wearing glasses when observing to see the full field of view but that is a slightly different issue I think.

 

 

Thanks John - I'm studying all the different ERs now.  I don't normally wear my glasses when observing with my other eyepieces but  just find I have to with the 32mm because my eye is so far away from the eyepiece!!  I am hopeful that the shorter ERs of the ethos range will mean I can discard the specs and enjoy the immersion.

Paul

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That is definitaly the way to go. I waer glasses but not at the eyepiece. Being able to stick your head right into a 100° Eypiece is a lovely, if slightly nausiating, experience. I'm a big fan of Ethos eyepieces in normal sized scopes (errrr and big scopes).

My collection is based around the Delos range which have a splendidly adjustable eyecup so when my eyesight deteriated to the point where I need glasses, I'll be OK - TeleVue call it adjustable eye relief....

Paul

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One question please.
Now that my thinking is chilled from a weekend of calmness :happy10:

For those who use the eye-cup extender, do you need one or two extenders?
From who of you giving advice, do not require glasses at the EP, I am lucky enough to not need them at the EP presently, but I am sure age will change that soon!!

Edited by Alan White
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On 10/5/2016 at 20:52, Alan White said:

I bought a new 32mm TV Plossl ........
Is this just too much for my scope, the EP or me.
 

It will be You!

Some will  like, others won't, no matter what the branding/type,  but eyepiece selection will always be subjective and often  difficult until  you have bought or loaned  an eyepiece and tested for yourself. Finding the wrong one can be daunting, but finding the right one is a joy. I'm sure your understanding wife would not bat an eyelid if you have to sell/replace that eyepiece, in order to find something better suited for your needs,   though I do like the inner tube fix? That's got to be worth a few quid to buy a tube from Halfords,  just to see if an extended eye-guard will indeed work, then either maintain the tube guard or buy  an original Teleview extender.

I've been disappointed  on two occasions so far and one pending?  firstly,when I bought my first  6mm EP, the TMB Planetary II, it felt as though I was looking through a tube, then along came the William Optics SPL, what a difference, its just a pity there is not a 6mm BST? Secondly, my first use of a TeleVue Plössl, the 8mm was too short on eye-relief ( the opposite almost, of your issues ) and pending? I still  love my Starguiders,  despite my Delois giving  me a wider field of view, and yet they should be much, much better IMHO  and at £330 new against £49 you would expect ( I would) a massive difference, but sadly no! hardly any difference except the field of view, and with that, I'm sure there is less coma in my BST due to the narrower field. Their good (Delos) but not  worth their full retail in my opinion ( to my eyes, they  appear to give me  the same  visual result, I expected better, far better )  So  not sure what to do next? I doubt I`ll need the 3.5 or the 4.5mm in the range (  I do like to complete a set ) and the  three I already have are more than  suited for my needs, and even these could be Barlowed to achieve  a further 3, 4 and 5mm, but this is extreme, and as for the 12, 14 and 17.3, well, if they appear at the right price, who knows!
I need some more detailed testing with my eyes using the Delos,  possibly with the use of a Dioptrx corrector lens!  One thing for sure, I think I'e settled on my Revelations as my Plössl of choice, their just so comfortable, bright, sharp  and easy to use with my eyes on an f/6 Skyliner.

Give the DIY extender a trial, see if it works, and if it does, you won't have to tell the Mrs you need another eyepiece!#

lastly, your mention of eyeglasses? I don't wear glasses at the telescope either, but maybe I should to help correct some 1.0 dioptre astigmatism! My own glasses ( now single vision, rather than varifocals )  improve my visuals when just looking up at the stars, hence my intention to test/trial the TeleVue Dioptrx on the Delos. The Delos range all have a 20mm eye-relief and adjustable eyeguards.

Edited by Charic
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I don't wear eyeglasses and I find that a single extender works for me. I use these 32mm TV plossls in binoviewers with VG success and also with my Quark.

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1 hour ago, jetstream said:

I don't wear eyeglasses and I find that a single extender works for me. I use these 32mm TV plossls in binoviewers with VG success and also with my Quark.

Yep, a single extender did the trick for me and I don't wear eyeglasses when observing. The extender made the 32mm TV plossl a very comfortable and relaxing eyepiece to use.

 

 

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