Best camera for remote reviewing

[SteveBz]

Hi Guys,

I'm sure this must have been asked dozens of times, I just couldn't find the relevant thread(s).

Is there a camera out there that will allow me to look through the telescope or finder as if looking through an eyepiece.  The main options seem to be planetary cams which pick up bright objects but not faint ones, or DSLRs which require long exposure and passing through Registax.

I'd like a relatively economical camera that I can strap to my focusser and sit elsewhere to look through the telescope. 

Maybe I'd use something like EQMOD and a game console to steer the scope.

I don't really want to experiment with a whole list of £100 plus cams to find the right one.

Thanks in advance.

Regards

Steve.

[MARS1960]

You could use a DSLR and Backyard EOS which you can trial free for 30 days, or just use a DSLR and Canons EOS Utility app.

[SteveBz]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for that, so if I get a DSLR (any DSLR?), as long as I have the right software I can use it do see pretty much what I would see through my eyepiece?

Nice.  Presumably I'd need some sort of connector too. 

Thanks and regards

Steve.

[michael8554]

Hi Steve

If you want to look at images almost "live" on a monitor, I think you need a sensitive VIdeo Camera rather than a DSLR

Have a browse through the vuideo imaging section here on SGL

Michael

[wuthton]

The slight wrinkle here is that much like when using eyepieces if you want to change your field of view (magnification) you need to use a different camera and/or telescope.

[Waldemar]

19 hours ago, wuthton said:

The slight wrinkle here is that much like when using eyepieces if you want to change your field of view (magnification) you need to use a different camera and/or telescope.

Or use ep projection, preferably with a zoom eyepiece. The Baader Hyperion zoom is really well suited for that. 

Many 'electronic eyepieces' are available...

Waldemar

Edited September 28, 2016 by Waldemar

[SteveBz]

On 09/28/2016 at 19:33, Waldemar said:

Or use ep projection, preferably with a zoom eyepiece. The Baader Hyperion zoom is really well suited for that. 

Many 'electronic eyepieces' are available...

Waldemar

The issue is that many electronic eyepieces are really just planet cams.  I bought a cheap one on ebay and it can only see seethe brightest stars. The others get cancelled as noise.

Edited October 2, 2016 by SteveBz
typo orders/others

[SteveBz]

19 hours ago, wuthton said:

The slight wrinkle here is that much like when using eyepieces if you want to change your field of view (magnification) you need to use a different camera and/or telescope.

You're right. so it seems if I want a 4mm or 6mm. Ie a lens for planets, then I can use a planet cam. If I want 20mm for deep space, then I need another one, but if I want to see for instance the ring nebula with the same 4mm, the planet cam can no longer see it.

Regards

Steve.

[Waldemar]

A dedicated video cam maybe  very expensive. It is not so easy to get good results without spending loads... http://www.astro-video.com/

[cjdawson]

The root issue here is that objects in the night sky are dim.  Most cameras are designed to work in daylight, so the exposure times that work are are a fraction of what is needed to be able to clearly see night objects.   You can get cameras that are very sensitive compared to about 20 years ago.  However if you take a look at the threads of people capturing images, you will quickly see that the exposure times they are talking about for a single frame is around 2-10 minutes depending on settings.  Then you'll also notice that the same people are talking about that single image being part of a set of 20-100 images.    This can mean that for a single photo, there will be something in the region of 60 mins or more exposure time on the object.    This simple won't happen in real time.

 

that said, if you are only looking to see feint fuzzy blobs, it can be done with exposures of 10 seconds or less.

[SteveBz]

I

1 hour ago, cjdawson said:

The root issue here is that objects in the night sky are dim.  Most cameras are designed to work in daylight, so the exposure times that work are are a fraction of what is needed to be able to clearly see night objects.   You can get cameras that are very sensitive compared to about 20 years ago.  However if you take a look at the threads of people capturing images, you will quickly see that the exposure times they are talking about for a single frame is around 2-10 minutes depending on settings.  Then you'll also notice that the same people are talking about that single image being part of a set of 20-100 images.    This can mean that for a single photo, there will be something in the region of 60 mins or more exposure time on the object.    This simple won't happen in real time.

 

that said, if you are only looking to see feint fuzzy blobs, it can be done with exposures of 10 seconds or less.

Hi CJ,

So are you saying that no camera can see live what you can see through the eyepiece?

Regards

Steve

[Waldemar]

1 hour ago, SteveBz said:

I

Hi CJ,

So are you saying that no camera can see live what you can see through the eyepiece?

Regards

Steve

It all depends on your expectations... A dedicated modern video camera for astro use is far more sensitive than our eyes, but costs alot. Maybe you are looking for very hightech equipment like this: http://nightvisioncameras.com/ ?

[spillage]

Hi Steve,

I think this is what CJ is saying. To view dso images by taking away using your eye then you will need to take long exposures so will no be a live view image as such.

If you think about it the human eye has massive advantages over a £100 webcam so will always out perform it.

Planets will be fine and stars but that really is all you can do with live view imo.

Edited October 2, 2016 by spillage

[SteveBz]

Nice. Do you have any of these?

So Soi could use an Astro scope for Canon age intensifier?

It doesn't mention prices, do you know how much they cost?

Steve

[SteveBz]

9 minutes ago, Waldemar said:

It all depends on your expectations... A dedicated modern video camera for astro use is far more sensitive than our eyes, but costs alot. Maybe you are looking for very hightech equipment like this: http://nightvisioncameras.com/ ?

Whoops forgot to quote:

Nice. Do you have any of these?

So i could use an Astro scope for Canon age intensifier?

It doesn't mention prices, do you know how much they cost?

Steve

Edited October 2, 2016 by SteveBz

[Waldemar]

No, I don't Steve. But I looked through one and it is totally amazing.

A lot of different ones are on the market and prizes vary from a few hunderds till almost 4000 
They can be equiped with different lenses, but no doubt there will be a way to attach them to a telescope also.

You will have to Google them:  Nightvision cameras or image-intensifiers 

 

[cjdawson]

All that I'm saying here is to manage your expectations as to what to expect from a real time view from a camera.   If you throw enough money at the problem, I'm sure you can get a great image in real time.  However most budgets, means that you'll be extended your exposure time.   That's all.

[Davey-T]

I have a Minitron video camera that does a pretty good job of "real time" viewing of planets and DSOs.

Gives nice views of the Ring nebula and Saturn, depending on the scope used.

Dave

[SteveBz]

12 hours ago, cjdawson said:

All that I'm saying here is to manage your expectations as to what to expect from a real time view from a camera.   If you throw enough money at the problem, I'm sure you can get a great image in real time.  However most budgets, means that you'll be extended your exposure time.   That's all.

Hi CJ,

My budget is meagre in the extreme.  Really I want people to pay me to take stuff off their hands!!

I did however buy (as I may have mentioned earlier) a Bosma TCE-200 CCD 2MP Camera for £20 off eBay.  However, it has automatic brightness control and noise reduction, both of which get in the way of viewing DSOs.  I'm trying to get into the low-level electronics and control of it all, because I'm fairly sure that with the right intervention I can turn off these features and make it a more useful tool.

Regards,

Steve.

[cjdawson]

Might be worth you contacting making contact with the QCUIAG group http://www.qcuiag.org.uk/  They used to have a group on Yahoo.  And it wouldn't surprise me if someone there would know how to do the intervention that you are talking about.  In addition, if you are lucky, you might be able to flash the firmware of the camera as I get the feeling that the features you are talking about are software features rather than hardware.  might even be a driver thing!

[SteveBz]

1 minute ago, cjdawson said:

might even be a driver thing!

I was hoping so.  I use Linux, so with any luck I can probably hack into the driver and modify.  There might even be a flag to switch it on and off.  There is a user group dedicated to linux drivers, so I'll post there.

Regards

Steve

[jbriare]

On 03/10/2016 at 02:40, SteveBz said:

 

I did however buy (as I may have mentioned earlier) a Bosma TCE-200 CCD 2MP Camera for £20 off eBay. 

 

 

Hi Steve

How do you operate the Bosma  TCE-200?  I threw one into a cart when buying some other junk online and it came with no manual or no software.  Trouble is, I can't find either online.  Did yours come with any documentation or direction to how to download software or anything?  I'm glad i bought cheap but would like to at least know that I gave it a try.  thanks for any advice/comments.

 

JIM

[SteveBz]

On 22/09/2019 at 07:47, jbriare said:

Hi Steve

How do you operate the Bosma  TCE-200?  I threw one into a cart when buying some other junk online and it came with no manual or no software.  Trouble is, I can't find either online.  Did yours come with any documentation or direction to how to download software or anything?  I'm glad i bought cheap but would like to at least know that I gave it a try.  thanks for any advice/comments.

 

JIM

Are you on Windows or Linux? On linux, it's just treated as a webcam as in /dev/video0 etc. On windows I don't know, but I guess it's the same. It was probably made for a microscope and converted for a telescope. It's not terribly sensitive, but you can use it for a guidescope on brighter stars. You can also get planetary images, although they're not great.

I upgraded to a QHY5 which is much much better. You can also use a zwo asi120mm for 100 odd quid off alibaba express.

Good luck,

Steve.