Why do people do astronomy (or not)

[SteveBz]

Hi Guys,

I'm relatively new to Astronomy (April 2016).  But like everything I do I'm full of enthusiasm, but already I can see there might be an end point.  This is brought home to me when every day I see advertisements everywhere with Astronomy Clearouts, from people who have lost the motivation.

So my question is why do we do this thing called astronomy?

For me I bought a little c114n and the first time out I saw great fat Jupiter and his four Galilean servants running around to look after him and I was overwhelmed.  I've done some photos, but the real question is what is going to keep me here.  And my answer, for me, is as long as I have unanswered questions I'll keep coming back.

I like fiddling with the setup to improve or vary it, I like the social aspects of the local club, I like getting outside at night, I like being close to nature, I like imagining the vastness of the universe, but for me, the fundamental driver is what do I not understand to which Astronomy might point the way.  And maybe when I run out of questions, I may not come back.

At the moment I have some detailed questions, like how to set up my rig cheaply for imaging, or how to keep my local club running.

But there are bigger questions like "how do galactic density waves work" or "why does the Sun rotate as it does" and then "does it even make sense to talk about space expanding".

In the past amateur astronomers contributed greatly to the understanding of space and the universe.  I think people are motivated by exploring the unknown, it would be nice if there was a "research interests" section of SGL.

So, what keeps you coming back and what are your research interests?

Regards

Steve.

[DHEB]

I guess this is bound to bring up a plethora of different responses, perhaps as many as respondents.  Some words/feelings/concepts that describe what amateur astronomy may mean:

- sense of place/belonging to the Universe

- inner peace in the solitude of night

- fascination

- learning challenge

- sense of accomplishment when we succeed with a little bit of the hobby

- meaningful connection to like-minded people

 

My humble take on these issues: Planets, stars and meteors: simple joys of naked-eye astronomy

[Roy Challen]

All of the above! I might also add that these 'astro clearouts' are usually to fund more expensive gear. Personally, I chop and change eyepieces just because I like to find out about these things - as long as the budget can support it!

If it's questions that would keep you coming back, then the one to ask is 'Has anything up there changed?' Guaranteed to make you look!

[Peter Drew]

It's just the way I'm "wired", can't hep it!    

[Mr Spock]

I always like to wonder what's out there. As long as I have an imagination I will continue to look.

[Chris]

Astronomy is such a broad subject with so many areas of interest to explore. There really is a lifetime and more to learn, but it's a hobby that doesn't hand stuff to you on a plate. i like that you have to work at it, learn, explore etc. I love the kit from an engineering and optics point of view too. not to forget the sense of piece I get from being out under the stars.   

I think people are either hooked or not, both are fair play, you're into what you're into and that's it

[Stu]

Since I started about 16 years ago, I am just happy to continue enjoying the stars in a fairly relaxed manner. This is not a race or a competition for me, I will enjoy viewing the Double Cluster or Mizar for the hundredth (or more!) time until my eyes give out.

Due to my location I am largely a planetary and Solar observer, and will happily spend hours just watching Jupiter spin slowly, with perhaps the GRS or a shadow transit to follow. The peace and quiet are important for me, and I also find that I naturally control my breathing and relax when I'm trying to see a faint feature, a very good way of de-stressing.

I am interested in the science and exploration side, but I think what keeps me coming back is that I just love, aesthetically, the objects I am looking at, so it is not something that is likely to burn out.

[Pippy]

In most every part, life is full of cycles and phases, interests/hobbies/learnings/experiences are no exception.

Life also has a habit of throwing a spanner in the works, the best laid plans etc.

[Macavity]

I tend to the idea we are "born not made" too? Was at one Astro meeting
where an Amateur gave a basic talk to quite young kids. They were all doing
a "project" on Astronomy, but when the speaker asked questions, it was
only ONE or two who seemed to know ALL the answers? (Clever Clogs!)

But maybe there were more, who took a "quiet" interest? I recall, with wry
amusement: In MY day (I + fellow) NERDS tended to keep quiet about it? 
But maybe Brian Cox et el. have liberated us to "come out" about it now.  

[Pippy]

59 minutes ago, Macavity said:

I tend to the idea we are "born not made" too? Was at one Astro meeting
where an Amateur gave a basic talk to quite young kids. They were all doing
a "project" on Astronomy, but when the speaker asked questions, it was
only ONE or two who seemed to know ALL the answers? (Clever Clogs!)

Expecting people young or old to speak/pipe-up in public for whatever reason will never return the results you desire - for very good reasons.

'Public' being anything more than company you trust with your deepest thoughts and feelings.

[Ben the Ignorant]

3 hours ago, SteveBz said:

And maybe when I run out of questions, I may not come back.

At the moment I have some detailed questions, like how to set up my rig cheaply for imaging, or how to keep my local club running.

But there are bigger questions like "how do galactic density waves work" or "why does the Sun rotate as it does" and then "does it even make sense to talk about space expanding".

Does it even make sense to talk about space expanding?

Picture a rod in your mind, then picture the rod doubling its length; nothing prevents that, right? And it will never hit an obstacle if you expand it for ever in your mind, right?

It seems the Universe works like a mind but relax, I'm not making you run out of questions, and have you not come back to astronomy, because these remain:

What is a mind?

How does a mind work?

Why does a mind exist?

Why does a mind ask about itself?

How can a mind enlarge itself?

As usual a possible answer only multiplies the questions, so you're not going to leave anytime soon.

[scarp15]

56 minutes ago, Stu said:

Since I started about 16 years ago, I am just happy to continue enjoying the stars in a fairly relaxed manner. This is not a race or a competition for me, I will enjoy viewing the Double Cluster or Mizar for the hundredth (or more!) time until my eyes give out.

 

Discovering the new and continually revisiting and being thrilled by the familiar making the most of every available circumstance.

[cloudsweeper]

For me, it's the distances and sizes of the objects I'm viewing, it's the science behind them and of the equipment we use to see them, it's the satisfaction when I track something down and it pops up in the eyepiece.  

Hard to suggest the biggest attraction, but perhaps it's the utter beauty of what we are seeing.

Will it fade?  I doubt it. 

Doug.

[SteveNickolls]

Very good question,

I've been fascinated by the night sky as long as I can remember. These few lines from the last eight lines of, "A Song of Honour" by Ralph Hodgson serve to sum up my condition precisely-

"I stood and stared; the sky was lit, 
The sky was stars all over it, 
I stood, I knew not why, 
Without a wish, without a will, 
I stood upon that silent hill 
And stared into the sky until 
My eyes were blind with stars and still 
I stared into the sky."

Thanks for asking,

Regards,
Steve

[Charic]

3 hours ago, SteveBz said:

I'm relatively new to Astronomy (April 2016).  But like everything I do I'm full of enthusiasm, but already I can see there might be an end point.  This is brought home to me when every day I see advertisements everywhere with Astronomy Clearouts, from people who have lost the motivation.

Clear outs  can make way for new equipment, or because the  baby is due, leaving no space or time available and several other reasons that you will read about. Some folk just give up, enjoying the sport of trying something new, been there, done that?
I should have quit Years ago? I  can have pristine sky's  during the Winter Months, and almost no Stars during the bright Summer months, so my  hobby has less attraction after a time, up here, for some folk, due to these limitations imposed by location, pollution, and local weather conditions. 
I have some new eyepieces, bought  to trial them, and in preparation for a larger telescope, but that's not happening yet, unless by chance?  I have had less than 7 observations since January this Year, due to the poor weather, so when I can't view, I have Stellarium and the fun of being part of this group. I want to get out and test my new Deloi eyepieces! I have had the 6mm since November last, then the 8 followed, and I don't think my 10mm has ever seen starlight yet?
I won't be quitting soon,  and have found an alternative decorative  use for them, Bookends?

https://stargazerslounge.com/gallery/image/31569-deloi-bookends/

Almost forgot?.............As for the original question WHY Astronomy?  I just wanted to view the Moon, see M31, Jupiter and Saturn! The Moon is just jaw dropping at any magnification through this scope, and one day I will start my study of the Moon in earnest. I have seen Jupiter many times,  but only once in stunning detail, small but detailed (conditions allowed for a perfect visual image) I have tried to view Saturn, but failed due to the opposing street lamp! and M31 is a mere, very light misty patch, nothing to get excited about from my  garden observatory,  but away from home, same telescope, same eyepiece, M31 blows me away,  it fills the field of view and more, stunning.

[bejay1957]

I've covered it on other threads, but I've always had an interest in the sky/stars/space/universe/cosmos/multiverses, and from science into sci-fi etc...

This interest certainly was not inherited from my parents, though in my early years I was perhaps guided by my grandfather who as a life-long shepherd had spend many days/nights under the sky and stars, and passed his lore to me.

 

 

[SteveBz]

1 hour ago, Ben the Ignorant said:

Picture a rod in your mind, then picture the rod doubling its length; nothing prevents that, right? And it will never hit an obstacle if your expand it for ever in your mind, right?

You see as my mind remains the same and the rod occupies the same space in my mind, surely I am just halving the distance between my measurement points and doubling the number or frequency of measurement points.

[SteveBz]

36 minutes ago, bejay1957 said:

I've covered it on other threads, but I've always had an interest in the sky/stars/space/universe/cosmos/multiverses, and from science into sci-fi etc...

This interest certainly was not inherited from my parents, though in my early years I was perhaps guided by my grandfather who as a life-long shepherd had spend many days/nights under the sky and stars, and passed his lore to me.

 

 

That's a very pretty story.  Did you ever go out with him?

[ronin]

Concernong "Clearouts" it may be people exiting this hobby but it can equally be people just clearing out unused equipment.

I have 6 scopes and I suppose I need 2 or even 3 of them. I have 3 or 4 mounts I have yet to really use, I guess I have say 6 maybe 7 mounts. One is still boxed after about 4 years. Eyepieces likely I have 40 to 50 of them, sensible thing would be to keep the BST's and the TV plossl's (one set of) and sell the rest. so keep 12-15 and sell 30 to 35.

So I could (never will) sell 3 scopes, 4 mounts, and 30+ eyepieces. And then carry on observing more or less as normal.

I count what we do as different to "Astronomy". Visit a university astronomy department and they do astronomy. Recently there was a release of Gaia data and schools were analysing some. They were doing astronomy, it was indoors, during the day, no scopes and all on a PC screen.

One apparent reason for people going is the often asked question: What can I look at next? Some people will do the Messier Catalogue, good selection and well known, then what? Suppose it would be the Caldwell Catalogue. But that is rarely referred to, even though it was produced by Sir Patrick Moore. After that you really have to search for something. I only know of 1 Messier Marthon event in the UK (may not actually still be running), in the US these seem more common and are equally as much a meet up and night of chat then anything.

In the US there are the Astro League observing programs, a seemingly good selection of observing ideas. Developed for people of all ages. abilities and equipments. The RASC (Royal Astronomical Society of Canada) have a small selection of programs. There is nothing remotely like that here. I do wonder why the BAA or RAS have nothing. Any "senior" members of either may like to comment. I suppose the answer could be "Join one of them and start a program up."

Another aspect about the question is that it was asked on a forum. Does a club have the same turnover as is seen on a forum. Does a forum member tend to take up the hobby, go at it for say 2 years, generally alone, then drift of to something else. Whareas a club member joins, gets to mix with people, attend talks and observing nights and so stick at it longer more for the social aspects.

Why do I do it, well it is easy and simple. All I need is a clear night and just looking up and observing is easy to do. Binoculars help and a scope does as well in a way, but eyes that work reasonably well are adaquate. It is amazing how simply knowing a fair number of the constellations and a bit about them and some stars impresses people, yet just about anyone could do it with almost no effort. Someone was "amazed" by the Summer Triangle. I simply pointed out the 3 stars, explained they were high in the sky during Summer and being 3 they formed a triangle. The amazement they showed was (well) amazing, yet so simple. A good coat helps.

[saac]

I find amateur astronomy a fun and imaginative way to dispose of lots of money.  I'm working up another hobby too, how to create lots of money, kinda going slow at the moment

 

Jim

[Ben the Ignorant]

1 hour ago, SteveBz said:

You see as my mind remains the same and the rod occupies the same space in my mind, surely I am just halving the distance between my measurement points and doubling the number or frequency of measurement points.

Could be, seems a valid way to see it. But since a mind has imagination, it can imagine itself to be larger, that's the freedom of playing with information; once the information can be changed there's no limit, and anything's possible. If the Universe is really a mind, that is. To me it solves the problem of what lies beyond the Universe's edge: what lies beyond a mind's edge? And how can the Universe be infinite? Can't imagination be infinite?

[Ben the Ignorant]

16 minutes ago, saac said:

I find amateur astronomy a fun and imaginative way to dispose of lots of money.  I'm working up another hobby too, how to create lots of money, kinda going slow at the moment

Jim

If I'm right about the creative power of imagination, the Universe can create it by willing it. Not sure a creature's mind can do it too, though, the Krells tried...

[bejay1957]

2 hours ago, SteveBz said:

That's a very pretty story.  Did you ever go out with him?

Not while he was a shepherd, he had just retired by the time I had reached junior-school age; he used to collect me from school and we would walk up to the fields/downs and he would relate his knowledge - also fairly sure that's where my interest in weather watching/forecasting came about.  In the evenings he would take me out; although he wouldn't have known the names of individual planets and stars as we might now, he would point out the main constellations and milky way (no real LP back then in the mid-late 60s).  I'm convinced that my interest and fascination with nature - in all its widest forms - was nurtured in those years.  

When I looked at Ancestry, I found he (Sid James, not not that one!) had been a third-generation shepherd, so there must have been accumulated knowledge/lore in the genes somewhere.  

 

I should have mentioned earlier that being born in December 1957 I was pretty much a child of the space age - that must have also influenced interests, and a thirst for knowledge about 'out there'.  Its probably true for any generation, but personally I feel my generation has experienced an incredible advance in information and knowledge about space and the universe, not least with the detection of planets around other stars - these have gone from pure sci-fi to fact in a relatively short time.

[saac]

1 hour ago, Ben the Ignorant said:

If I'm right about the creative power of imagination, the Universe can create it by willing it. Not sure a creature's mind can do it too, though, the Krells tried...

Ok here we go, I'm imagining a 10 micron mount in my obsy and 2 weeks, no wait, one whole month of cloudless dewless nights.  My astronomer sidekick daughter is holding out for a hot chocolate machine in the obsy.  Personally, I think she may be onto something

I hope the universe has got a fix to the Win 10 Prolific chipset bug - I want my 10 micron mount to work out of the box!

Jim

[andrew s]

For me it is the perfect hobby. It allows me to study it theoretically (cosmology, physics etc.), I can make and tinker with bits of kit (telescopes, spectrographs etc.) , I can make and reduce observations and I can just enjoy the sheer wonder of the night sky.

What more could you want (given I don't like hot chocolate).

Regards Andrew