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After a little good news (not often that happens right) I have managed to just order a William Optics binoviewer from FLO. Wanted one of these for a while, but was originally planning to get one next year, but managed to bring that forward now, so looking forward to some good views through them in my scopes. :)

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/misc/william-optics-binoviewer.html

 

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Just find a correct light path schematic for mirror and prism diagonals. Peter and Stu's understanding was correct, that prism reflects too, the shorter light path in prism is achieved by bending the

After a little good news (not often that happens right) I have managed to just order a William Optics binoviewer from FLO. Wanted one of these for a while, but was originally planning to get one next

I think I'll sit out this debate. My knowledge of light refraction reached a peak with grade C at Physics O level, 36 years ago. 

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6 minutes ago, Dave Lloyd said:

Looks good mate. Skyatnight mag gives it a good write up on FLO's website.

Yep. I own a WO EP already and it is great quality, so after seeing that Sky at Night gave it the thumbs up too then that clinched it too. :) 

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Just now, xtreemchaos said:

well done Knighty, wouldnt mind some of them myself, dont forget to write a review when you have had a bit of skytime with them, hope you get clear skys .charl.

Thanks Charl. After the obvious cloudy penalty I'll receive for getting them I'll do a first light review when I get a chance to use them. :) 

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I have some WO bino's. I don't use the 20mm SWAN's that came with them anymore though.

Binocase rev new.jpg

I also have the 2x Barlow element, FLO can order it if you want it.

binopairs.jpg

The WO bino has compression rings in its dioptres so I tend to use eyepieces without safety undercuts for ease of extraction.

binoring.jpg

The two TeleVue 15mm Plossls are fine as they have lower lip flared undercuts. Oddly the WO SWAN's have tapered draw tubes which can mangle compression rings.

pair.jpg

I swapped the draw tubes on these Celestron (GSO) Plossls for chromed brass smooth types.

pair3.jpg

I don't tend to put the bino into a diagonal with a compression ring as a rule as it also has a flared nose, as a consequence the nosepiece can get marked by the set screw.

pair2.jpg

They are great bino's though.

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6 minutes ago, Mak the Night said:

I have some WO bino's. I don't use the 20mm SWAN's that came with them anymore though.

Binocase rev new.jpg

I also have the 2x Barlow element, FLO can order it if you want it.

binopairs.jpg

The WO bino has compression rings in its dioptres so I tend to use eyepieces without safety undercuts for ease of extraction.

binoring.jpg

The two TeleVue 15mm Plossls are fine as they have lower lip flared undercuts. Oddly the WO SWAN's have tapered draw tubes which can mangle compression rings.

pair.jpg

I swapped the draw tubes on these Celestron (GSO) Plossls for chromed brass smooth types.

pair3.jpg

I don't tend to put the bino into a diagonal with a compression ring as a rule as it also has a flared nose, as a consequence the nosepiece can get marked by the set screw.

pair2.jpg

They are great bino's though.

Thanks. I have a few other pairs of stock EPs that I can use in them too (10mm & 25mm I believe). Can't see the WO 2x Barlow for the binoviewer on FLO. Only place I can see it is on here;

http://www.astroshop.eu/william-optics-2x-barlow-lense-for-1-25-binoviewers/p,4717

 

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Which type diagonal do you intend to use with it?

I had to buy a Baader prism (non-Zeiss) to get the required back focus.

I bought the dedicated WO 2.0 barlow from Agena Astro in the States, didn't cost much.

 

Edited by Star Struck
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3 minutes ago, Star Struck said:

Which type diagonal do you intend to use with it?

I had to buy a Baader prism (non-Zeiss) to get the required back focus.

I bought the dedicated WO 2.0 barlow from Agena Astro in the States, didn't cost much.

 

Got a Altair 2" dielectric mirror diagonal.  Got 80mm focus on my dual sped focuser, so hoping that should be enough also to bring the binoviewer into focus OK.

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26 minutes ago, Star Struck said:

I bought the dedicated WO 2.0 barlow from Agena Astro in the States, didn't cost much.

 

Thanks. Just ordered from there. Cheers! Not too much either! :) 

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48 minutes ago, Knighty2112 said:

Thanks. I have a few other pairs of stock EPs that I can use in them too (10mm & 25mm I believe). Can't see the WO 2x Barlow for the binoviewer on FLO. Only place I can see it is on here;

http://www.astroshop.eu/william-optics-2x-barlow-lense-for-1-25-binoviewers/p,4717

 

You have to email FLO and order it specially.

wob1.jpg

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59 minutes ago, Star Struck said:

Which type diagonal do you intend to use with it?

I had to buy a Baader prism (non-Zeiss) to get the required back focus.

I bought the dedicated WO 2.0 barlow from Agena Astro in the States, didn't cost much.

 

Star struck: I'm hopeful of reaching focus with WO binoviewer and T2 Zeiss prism in my C8 Edge - what's your set up? 

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1 hour ago, Knighty2112 said:

I own a WO EP already and it is great quality...

The 6mm SPL is a  fine eyepiece indeed.  I tried purchasing their 3mm to complete my set, but the seller  refused to budge from their price which was almost retail, telling me its still  brand new in a box , I'm sure that EP  was auctioned three times to the best of my knowledge,  because the price was too high (I assume)  yet he  second hand ones I've purchased were mint, and nowhere near the price he was asking, so still waiting, to complete that set. 
Again, as for the rest of my EP collection, my 6mm SPL was bought on recommendations from other users here at SGL, and I have no issues with it.  I could not buy  a 6mm Starguider, and I really wanted/needed one, so the 6mm SPL was it's replacement. I have other 6mm eyepieces in my collection, and reading a  few lines today from  a document on the web, it said  something like,  some EP's cost more, some work better, but the ones that cost more are not always better? On paper they may be, but your eye, telescope and conditions will dictate whether an eyepiece is good or not. Hands down, I still prefer my BST's, and sorry,  but my 6mm SPL is not yet available to complete your 6mm WO  Bino experience, if that's an option for you.
They say looking at the Moon through binoviewers is awesome, virtually  3D, so how will they compare to standard binoculars, I'll be interested to hear your review.

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32 minutes ago, Charic said:

The 6mm SPL is a  fine eyepiece indeed.  I tried purchasing their 3mm to complete my set, but the seller  refused to budge from their price which was almost retail, telling me its still  brand new in a box , I'm sure that EP  was auctioned three times to the best of my knowledge,  because the price was too high (I assume)  yet he  second hand ones I've purchased were mint, and nowhere near the price he was asking, so still waiting, to complete that set. 
Again, as for the rest of my EP collection, my 6mm SPL was bought on recommendations from other users here at SGL, and I have no issues with it.  I could not buy  a 6mm Starguider, and I really wanted/needed one, so the 6mm SPL was it's replacement. I have other 6mm eyepieces in my collection, and reading a  few lines today from  a document on the web, it said  something like,  some EP's cost more, some work better, but the ones that cost more are not always better? On paper they may be, but your eye, telescope and conditions will dictate whether an eyepiece is good or not. Hands down, I still prefer my BST's, and sorry,  but my 6mm SPL is not yet available to complete your 6mm WO  Bino experience, if that's an option for you.
They say looking at the Moon through binoviewers is awesome, virtually  3D, so how will they compare to standard binoculars, I'll be interested to hear your review.

I actually dropped my 6mm WO EP about a week ago after finishing off a session and was putting my scope away, and my heart just sank! Expecting major damage to the optics, I was lucky that in reality all that happened was I got a slight scuff mark on the end of the black 1.25" tube that goes into the diagonal. Thankful the optics were still fine! :) 

Edited by Knighty2112
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.......I keep seeing those Rolson interlocking  mats in Halfords, maybe they could help save the day, before the next person  drops something?
I remember lifting a chair in the dark and the binoculars falling, good thing the strap was around the backrest! When I say dark, even the lume on my watch is too bright, so  if/when using the tent,  I like to be in total darkness, feeling my way around?

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5 hours ago, Knighty2112 said:

Got a Altair 2" dielectric mirror diagonal.  Got 80mm focus on my dual sped focuser, so hoping that should be enough also to bring the binoviewer into focus OK.

I couldn't reach focus with my OPT 2" dielectric diagonal my AT-72ED, so I ended up getting a 1.25" WO CF dielectric.  It works great, no flexing, no induced aberrations, and it weighs less.

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3 hours ago, Louis D said:

I couldn't reach focus with my OPT 2" dielectric diagonal my AT-72ED, so I ended up getting a 1.25" WO CF dielectric.  It works great, no flexing, no induced aberrations, and it weighs less.

Hoping I won't have to, but if I do I would get a WO digonal to go with it too. :) 

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2 hours ago, Knighty2112 said:

Hoping I won't have to, but if I do I would get a WO digonal to go with it too. :) 

It is worth considering the Baader T2 diagonals or prisms as they give a larger clear aperture but still have a short light path helping you to reach focus.

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15 minutes ago, Stu said:

It is worth considering the Baader T2 diagonals or prisms as they give a larger clear aperture but still have a short light path helping you to reach focus.

Thanks Stu. I am confused by these diagonals, as the don't come with either an eyepiece barrel, or a barrel to fit into your telescope focuser as such, so would have to these buy items them as seperate items to allow the diagonal to fit and work in a scope, so wouldn't this just make them like any other diagonal? Don't quite get how the light path would be shorter than less expensive options here? 

Edited by Knighty2112
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A lot of getting Binoviewers to work is suck it and see as you will discover.

One thing not mentioned so far is Inter Pupillary Distance i.e. the distance between the centre of your eyepupils. I have found this to be critical for Binoviewers, a lot more so than for normal binoculars. I could not get the images to merge unless I got this spot on. It is easy to measure yourself, but if you wear glasses then your optician should know what it is exactly as they use it when making sure your glasses fit correctly.

This is the prism I use, it represents very good value for money if you cannot get your existing mirror diagonal to come to focus: http://www.365astronomy.com/Baader-Prism-Diagonal-T-2-90-degree-32mm-Set.html?gclid=COzow5qJqs4CFXYW0wodF4gKqg

Tony

Edited by Star Struck
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2 hours ago, Star Struck said:

A lot of getting Binoviewers to work is suck it and see as you will discover.

One thing not mentioned so far is Inter Pupillary Distance i.e. the distance between the centre of your eyepupils. I have found this to be critical for Binoviewers, a lot more so than for normal binoculars. I could not get the images to merge unless I got this spot on. It is easy to measure yourself, but if you wear glasses then your optician should know what it is exactly as they use it when making sure your glasses fit correctly.

This is the prism I use, it represents very good value for money if you cannot get your existing mirror diagonal to come to focus: http://www.365astronomy.com/Baader-Prism-Diagonal-T-2-90-degree-32mm-Set.html?gclid=COzow5qJqs4CFXYW0wodF4gKqg

Tony

Thanks. I saw that one whilst looking too. Going to see how I got with what I've got first off, and then if I do need one I may get this one. I do want a new diagonal to replace the stock one on my smaller 70mm frac that I use occasionally over my ST120, so at some point I will get a new diagonal regardless anyway. :) 

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3 hours ago, Star Struck said:

A lot of getting Binoviewers to work is suck it and see as you will discover.

One thing not mentioned so far is Inter Pupillary Distance i.e. the distance between the centre of your eyepupils. I have found this to be critical for Binoviewers, a lot more so than for normal binoculars. I could not get the images to merge unless I got this spot on. It is easy to measure yourself, but if you wear glasses then your optician should know what it is exactly as they use it when making sure your glasses fit correctly.

This is the prism I use, it represents very good value for money if you cannot get your existing mirror diagonal to come to focus: http://www.365astronomy.com/Baader-Prism-Diagonal-T-2-90-degree-32mm-Set.html?gclid=COzow5qJqs4CFXYW0wodF4gKqg

Tony

Went ahead and ordered up one anyway, as like I said I want a replacement one for my smaller scope so I thought what the hell! Kill two birds with one stone like they say! Hehe! ;) 

 

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7 hours ago, Knighty2112 said:

Don't quite get how the light path would be shorter than less expensive options here?

Prism diagonals have a shorter light path than mirror ones because the speed of light traveling through glass is slower than through air.  At least, that's what I've heard.  I'm no physicist or optician.

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22 hours ago, Louis D said:

Prism diagonals have a shorter light path than mirror ones because the speed of light traveling through glass is slower than through air.  At least, that's what I've heard.  I'm no physicist or optician.

I've heard this about the speed of light. Although I was always taught that the speed of light was a constant 299,792 km/s. I'm not a physicist either so it makes no sense to me lol!

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2 hours ago, Mak the Night said:

I've heard this about the speed of light. Although I was always taught that the speed of light was a constant 299,792 km/s. I'm not a physicist either so it makes no sense to me lol!

The speed of light is constant in a vacuum but it does change (slow) in other media such as glass. I think astronomers only normally consider the speed in a vacuum because that is what it is for the vast majority of its journey to us from the stars.

The shorter light path on a prism however has nothing to do with the speed of light, it is simply due to the geometry of the prism vs the mirror i.e. The prism has a physically shorter light path. I'm not totally sure why, but putting my Baader Zeiss T2 prism next to the BBHS T2 mirror, the prism is clearly a smaller package.

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