Jump to content

Narrowband

Herschel 400 hunt: setting up the project and some questions


Recommended Posts

Hello everyone!

Some time ago I realised that I wanted to pursue this list, and time has come for me to start getting serious about it. This is the baseline:

  1. I have already bagged 63 objects (at least). I may come back to them again, but for the moment a get a nice head start.
  2. For me an object is observed if I sketch it and make brief description of the object.
  3. I will follow the attack plan set up by O'Meara on his field guide.
  4. Regrettably,  due to the place I live (rain!), proffesional commitments and family I can only get an average of 1 DSO observing night per month. This means it will take me at least 10 years to finish this project. 
  5. I will use, mainly, 2 dobs: 16" f4,5 & 10" f4,7. With regards to eyepieces, I got a question below.

So before I start, some questions to the community:

  1. Is there a "standard" way to report progress? I am surely not the only one doing this. What do you recommend? Different entries under DSO observation reports, a single entry.... 
  2. Anyone is already in the hunt? Someone is reporting already so I can follow him/her? Maybe someone in the early stages as myself? (I have seen some of you people with 350+ in the bag... looking good!)
  3. Anyone interested in jumping on the project? This is going to be a long run so it is good to have someone to run along with....

And with regards to teh equipment: I own several Hyperion eyepieces (17, 13, 8, 5) which I like but I do not see them the fittest for this task. After checking the sizes of the objects to observe I have realized that 322 are smaller than 10x10', therefore I am putting a lot of unneccesary glass to get an AFoV that I do not really need. Conclusion: I want something more specific for this. I am thinking on:

  1. For the 16": Plossl 15mm (TeleVue?) I am a bit concerned with eye relief (10mm). I guess I will be OK as I do not wear glasses. 
  2. For the 10": Plossl 11mm (Televue?) Even more concerned with eye relief (8 mm!).

So you see my main concern here: I am used to 20mm eye relief and I am getting half of that. Therefore... is there other option that you may recommend? Other brands? Maybe other design... Orthos? 

Thank you very much for your time, this has turned up to be a long post!

Clear skies!

Caput

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Caput,

Good luck on your big project, that should give you firm goals for a long time to come.

Have you looked at Mike73's Sketch the Messiers thread? It may give you some very relevant ideas to follow.

Cheers,

Stu

EDIT Here you go:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Caput

Good luck on the quest. 

I should dust this one off and have another go. I'm afraid that I found Mr O'Meara's guide intensely annoying. That isn't to say that it isn't a very fine piece of work. It just isn't how I like to observe. The man is blessed with very very dark sky and exceptionally well trained eyes. So, I spent several sessions feeling resentful about the UK sky and being told what to look at next; rather than enjoying time under the stars.

This link gives some good notes and in a nice downloadable format (same dark sky issue - my sky equates to this chap's 5/10)

http://www.saguaroastro.org/content/00_ALL-OF-HERSHEL400.html

Constalation by constalation seems like a good way to go.

I would be more than up for starting again and posting progress. I have similar scopes, family and work issues!!

I'm 51.5° North. Roughly where are you based?

Paul

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Caput Gorgonis said:

 

  1. Is there a "standard" way to report progress? I am surely not the only one doing this. What do you recommend? Different entries under DSO observation reports, a single entry....  Amateur astronomy is not a science or a regulated sport: do whatever you want. You're doing this for yourself, after all. If there's a "right" way it's the one invented by Herschel himself: the descriptive code that became the standard NGC abbreviations. How you archive it is up to you. Herschel had his sister (and later son) to help him.
  2. Anyone is already in the hunt?  Hundreds or thousands of people have done / are doing Herschel observations of one kind or another. The first person to view the full list of 2500 objects was of course William Herschel. My own Herschel count is 1373 at present. I started doing the "400" selection some years ago with an 8-inch but when I moved to a 12-inch I found that any Herschel object was viewable at a dark site. There's a book by Mark Bratton (I haven't read it but it looks interesting) covering the full 2500 which he's observed. Also lots of blogs and postings around the internet. The founders of the "400" list used to issue certificates, don't know if they still do but here's their site: https://www.astroleague.org/al/obsclubs/herschel/hers400.html

 

For equipment, an 8-inch should be enough to see any of the "400" from a dark site, so with 10 or 16 inch it should be a breeze. That's assuming you have a dark sky: at a light-polluted site a large proportion may be invisible with any aperture. Herschel discovered them all from near Windsor so all should be visible from UK latitudes, though light domes can pose a problem for the more southerly objects, and summer objects (Sagittarius, Scorpius etc) can be problematic for anyone north of, say, 55 degrees.

Herschel discovered all his objects using an exit pupil of 3mm so that gives you a benchmark for your main eyepiece. Have something higher for objects that will take it. Plossls are a very good choice. For the vast majority of these objects, very wide field eyepieces would only become useful when working at high power with an undriven scope, where you want to keep the faint fuzzy in the field for as long as possible. Personally with my 12" f4.9 I use a 32mm TeleVue plossl for finding, a Baader Hyperion 8-24mm for viewing, and on some objects I go to a Speers Waler 5-8mm zoom or Nirvana 4mm, but mostly it's just the Baader zoom that I use.

Most important thing is having a dark site for viewing (Milky Way naked-eye visible) and a good map for finding. And plenty of patience.

Good luck with your quest, I'm sure you'll have fun. Your one observing session per month sounds about average. But there are always above-average months to keep the spirits up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great comments from Acey.

I have almost done Herschel 400 with 8" by travelling to dark sites. Your 10" should be more than capable to do it if you have access to dark sky.

Your EPs cover the whole range from medium to high power for  Herschel 400, what you maybe missing is in low power for larger nebula, such as NGC7000, which is of size 2°., and you'll need a UHC and/or OIII filter for some nebulas.

Good luck with your hunting:smile:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good luck!  I'm in the midst of the Herschel 400 (probably around the 100 objects mark more or less...) after 3 months using mostly my 8" SCT and occasionally something smaller for quicker sessions.  I've found that some of these objects are very dependent on sufficiently dark skies.

I think I'd be scratching my eyes out though to sketch all those wee little clusters!!!!! :p  For me it's enough to just make an observation note.

If you're struggling for time and because of the changeable weather in the UK perhaps a 5" refractor as a grab and go setup may be more beneficial especially if you have dark enough skies. A bit here and there adds up and reserve setting up the big guns for a long session when you can.

I have a Baader Classic Ortho 10mm which is touted as being very good on DSOs for excellent contrast and light throughput.  Its restricted FOV and eye relief means though it's a bit of a pain to keep the object in the FOV for observation.  However, despite this it is excellent.   I have not had any issues using wide-field EPs though with the H400 DSOs.  The small objects are going to need a reasonable magnification anyway in the order of 120 - 150x to discern well.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

63 is a very good start. Note that going through rich hunting grounds such as Virgo, Coma, or Sagittarius and Scorpius you can hoover up quite a few in a single session.

I have got to 300+ with my C8 (plus one or two with Olly's 20" Dob) in a couple of years of observing (after I hunted down all the Messiers). I tend to put my reports just under "Observing - Reports", but I am by no means consistent. I tend not to sketch but give a short verbal description in my log (both on paper and on SGL). I also maintain a spreadsheet of all DSOs I have found using Google docs.

A scope that can travel to dark places (like my C8) is a real asset in this hunt

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Much as I like the idea of getting a set of TV Plossles.......

The BCO/BGO option is worth a shot as max transmission & keeping a bright star out of field sometimes really helps.

The Cambridge Atlas of Herschel Objects is a good buy as the 400 are clearly marked with an "*" in the data tables.

Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What a good feedback! Thank you all for your advice and best wishes. I will try to reply to you all in this post...

17 hours ago, Paul73 said:

I should dust this one off and have another go. I'm afraid that I found Mr O'Meara's guide intensely annoying. That isn't to say that it isn't a very fine piece of work. It just isn't how I like to observe. The man is blessed with very very dark sky and exceptionally well trained eyes. So, I spent several sessions feeling resentful about the UK sky and being told what to look at next; rather than enjoying time under the stars.

I see what you are saying, and I feel related. But for this task I think I need a roadmap, and I hope this book will provide it. However I will not get obssesed. I needed over 5 years to complete the Messier list, as my observing rate is 2-3 objects (w/ sketch + logs) per night. For example, I spent an average of 90 minutes on each Messier globular. In this case I will be quicker (all those faint fuzzies) but I will not rush it, by any means. Thanks for the link, it si good and compact info.

17 hours ago, Paul73 said:

I would be more than up for starting again and posting progress. I have similar scopes, family and work issues!!

I'm 51.5° North. Roughly where are you based?

Cool! I see you have added a 0/400 on your signature. As soon as I am allowed to do that (10 posts, I believe) I will do something similar. I am 40ºN so some of them will be easier for me. With regards to darkness... at home I can find semi-dark places driving 20 minutes. And my usual dark sites are 2h30 drive in the Pyrinees. I try to get there as often as I can. That is a NELM 6,5 - and darker.

 

11 hours ago, acey said:

Herschel discovered all his objects using an exit pupil of 3mm so that gives you a benchmark for your main eyepiece. Have something higher for objects that will take it. Plossls are a very good choice. For the vast majority of these objects, very wide field eyepieces would only become useful when working at high power with an undriven scope, where you want to keep the faint fuzzy in the field for as long as possible.

Most important thing is having a dark site for viewing (Milky Way naked-eye visible) and a good map for finding. And plenty of patience.

Thanks for the input. I agree about the darkness and patience. Altough I wish I had more of both. I am getting a EQ platform, so narrow fields should not be an issue. 

10 hours ago, YKSE said:

Your EPs cover the whole range from medium to high power for  Herschel 400, what you maybe missing is in low power for larger nebula, such as NGC7000, which is of size 2°., and you'll need a UHC and/or OIII filter for some nebulas.

I forgot to mention I got a 26mm and a Baader Aspheric 36mm. A shame due to the waste of light due to a >8 exit pupil but good for big fields for the massive ones. As I said, I will update my signature as soon as I am allowed. I take note of the BCOs as well. 

58 minutes ago, michael.h.f.wilkinson said:

A scope that can travel to dark places (like my C8) is a real asset in this hunt

My 10" is going to be a Sumerian Alkaid :grin:

5 hours ago, Davesellars said:

If you're struggling for time and because of the changeable weather in the UK perhaps a 5" refractor as a grab and go setup may be more beneficial especially if you have dark enough skies. A bit here and there adds up and reserve setting up the big guns for a long session when you can.

Good idea! I may recover my C5 I lent time ago and mount it altazimutally... Might do the trick for the brightest ones!

And finally...

20 hours ago, Stu said:

Have you looked at Mike73's Sketch the Messiers thread? It may give you some very relevant ideas to follow.

 

Yes. I came accross Mike73's sketches when doing research for my 16". They are amazing. I find nearly impossible to sketch DSO white on black, and less to get as much detail as he does. My sketching is mainly graphite on paper and inverted in Paint. Here are two examples:

01_M013_Her_GC_Newt12_116x_20100914_600x600_def.jpg     01_M015_Peg_GC_Newt12_116x_20100915_600x600_def.jpg

So I think that's it. Sorry if I did not address one of your replies, but it has been a lot of info to digest.

Thanks again, and I will keep you updated of my progress! (and Paul, it seems to me that we have a neat challenge ahead of us!).

Clear skies,

Caput

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Caput Gorgonis said:

 

Thanks again, and I will keep you updated of my progress! (and Paul, it seems to me that we have a neat challenge ahead of us!).

Clear skies,

Caput

Yes. It should be fun. I'll be spotting & recording rather than sketching. 

Good luck.

Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.