Planets disappearing??

[Starlord19]

I have gathered from reading various posts that the planets are only going to be visible from the southern hemisphere for the next few years. Can someone please confirm that I have this correct and possibly tell me what, if anything, will be visible next year and when the planets will be returning to our skies?

Thanks 

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

They will be quite far south, but that does not mean they will be disappearing. It will certainly be harder to see finer detail.

[Ant]

Currently Jupiter is still well placed for us in the Northern Hemisphere, but it is heading south. Saturn has been South for quite some time now and it'll be a few years before it heads back north again.

 

But as Michael has said, they are still visible - just not ideally placed for us in the UK. But they are still there and viewable!

 

Cheers

Ant

[Starlord19]

Ah, Thank you. So the planets will still be visible just that they will be too low to get optimum views. In that case does anyone know roughly when they will be high enough for good viewing in the north? 

[Moonshane]

See http://www.nakedeyeplanets.com/

[Stu]

1 hour ago, Starlord19 said:

Ah, Thank you. So the planets will still be visible just that they will be too low to get optimum views. In that case does anyone know roughly when they will be high enough for good viewing in the north? 

That's right, and unfortunately it gets worse before it gets better. Until 2020 both Mars and Saturn are poorly placed, then they improve, Mars more quickly but Saturn won't be back to its ultimate best until 2031 at 60 degrees altitude from my location (51 degrees north) 

I put this together from SkySafari as a rough guide.

Planetary altitude in degrees for each opposition        
        
Year     Saturn   Mars
2016    18          17
2017    16          Superior Conjunction
2018    16          13
2019    16          Superior Conjunction
2020    18          44
2021    20          Superior Conjunction
2022    23          63
2023    26          Superior Conjunction
2024    31          64
2025    35    
2026    40          Superior Conjunction
2027    45          54
2028    50          Superior Conjunction
2029    54          39
2030    57          Superior Conjunction
2031    60          23

[Grotemobile]

 That is very interesting. Don't think I will still be around in  2031  for Saturn. Mars

looks very good, from 2020 onwards . Good post..

[psamathe]

8 minutes ago, Stu said:

That's right, and unfortunately it gets worse before it gets better. Until 2020 both Mars and Saturn are poorly placed, then they improve, Mars more quickly but Saturn won't be back to its ultimate best until 2031 at 60 degrees altitude from my location (51 degrees north) 

I put this together from SkySafari as a rough guide.

Planetary altitude in degrees for each opposition        
        
Year     Saturn   Mars
2016    18          17
2017    16          Superior Conjunction
2018    16          13
2019    16          Superior Conjunction
2020    18          44
2021    20          Superior Conjunction
2022    23          63
2023    26          Superior Conjunction
2024    31          64
2025    35    
2026    40          Superior Conjunction
2027    45          54
2028    50          Superior Conjunction
2029    54          39
2030    57          Superior Conjunction
2031    60          23

Can somebody set me straight on Inferior and superior conjunctions (sorry, I'm a novice), but I had always thought that the terms Superior (and inferior) conjunction only applied to inferior planets and that superior planets only had "conjunctions" (not superior or inferior ones).  Don't know where I got it from, maybe just an assumption because there can be no "inferior conjunction" for a superior planet (as it is then opposition) so for a superior planet the superior/inferior qualifier seemed irrelevant.

I must have got the wrong end of the stick so any chance of some pointers so I can get to grips with the terms ?

Thanks

Ian

[Paul M]

31 minutes ago, Stu said:

That's right, and unfortunately it gets worse before it gets better. Until 2020 both Mars and Saturn are poorly placed, then they improve, Mars more quickly but Saturn won't be back to its ultimate best until 2031 at 60 degrees altitude from my location (51 degrees north) 

I put this together from SkySafari as a rough guide.

Planetary altitude in degrees for each opposition        
        
Year     Saturn   Mars
2016    18          17
2017    16          Superior Conjunction
2018    16          13
2019    16          Superior Conjunction
2020    18          44
2021    20          Superior Conjunction
2022    23          63
2023    26          Superior Conjunction
2024    31          64
2025    35    
2026    40          Superior Conjunction
2027    45          54
2028    50          Superior Conjunction
2029    54          39
2030    57          Superior Conjunction
2031    60          23

I "like"d this post. It made me realise I've followed Saturn round 1¹/₃  orbits in my stargazing life. 2 orbits seems a long time...

[John]

I can recall someone on this forum posting a couple of years back that planetary observing from the UK would be somewhat challenging over the next few years and they were quite correct.

My best ever views of Saturn were when it was higher in the sky than Jupiter is at the moment which I think was about 7-8 years back ?.

I guess it means we will need to work that much harder and be more inventive to make the most of what is on offer.

 

[Starlord19]

Thanks Stu, that's exactly the kind of information I was after. Looks like I'll be postponing the purchase of a new planetary scope for a few years at least!!! 

[Stu]

45 minutes ago, psamathe said:

Can somebody set me straight on Inferior and superior conjunctions (sorry, I'm a novice), but I had always thought that the terms Superior (and inferior) conjunction only applied to inferior planets and that superior planets only had "conjunctions" (not superior or inferior ones).  Don't know where I got it from, maybe just an assumption because there can be no "inferior conjunction" for a superior planet (as it is then opposition) so for a superior planet the superior/inferior qualifier seemed irrelevant.

I must have got the wrong end of the stick so any chance of some pointers so I can get to grips with the terms ?

Thanks

Ian

Ian, the Superior planets ie those further from the Sun than us can only have superior conjunctions ie they are close to being in line with the Sun but are on the opposite side of it to us. That is very different to an opposition when the planets are opposite the sun in the sky and at their best.

The Inferior planets can have both inferior and superior conjunctions because they can be close to the Sun both on our side of it, and on the far side of their orbits. The Superior planets can never get between us and the Sun, does that make sense?

Likewise, the Inferior planets do not come to opposition but reach a point of maximum elongation from the Sun relative to us so they are then easiest to see generally.

[Stu]

50 minutes ago, Grotemobile said:

 That is very interesting. Don't think I will still be around in  2031  for Saturn. Mars

looks very good, from 2020 onwards . Good post..

I'm not sure my eye will be up to it even if I'm still around.... Might have to travel south sooner than that to catch one!

[Stu]

2 hours ago, Starlord19 said:

Thanks Stu, that's exactly the kind of information I was after. Looks like I'll be postponing the purchase of a new planetary scope for a few years at least!!! 

I'm going to be experimenting with the ZWO ADC which FLO have just started ranging. This is a device containing a pair of accurately ground (1/10th wave) prisms which you can adjust to compensate for atmospheric CA, ideal for planets low down. I'll report back when I've had a chance to use it.

[Peter Drew]

Rather than wait until 2031 when I'll be 90 I'll just keep going to Tenerife where Saturn and Mars are as high as Jupiter seen from the UK. After a couple of weeks of viewing them every night it just about equals a year's worth from here.  

[Stu]

14 minutes ago, Peter Drew said:

Rather than wait until 2031 when I'll be 90 I'll just keep going to Tenerife where Saturn and Mars are as high as Jupiter seen from the UK. After a couple of weeks of viewing them every night it just about equals a year's worth from here.  

That's the best idea Peter, and one which I need to find a way of replicating!!! I remember the good old days when I started observing, when Saturn and Jupiter were riding high together. Lovely views then, but still not as good as your Tenerife views I'm sure.

[ArmyAirForce]

They've disappeared for me already! At 54 degrees North, both Saturn and Mars are very low already, about 13 degrees for Saturn and 14 for Mars. Unfortunately, from my observatory, my South view is only above 20 to 25 degrees depending on whether I'm looking over the house roof or extension roof. In 2018, Mars will be about 5 degrees from here! I won't get to see that until at least 2020, but for a decent image of Saturn again, I'm looking at 2022 before it clears the roofs and 2025 before it's at a decent height to image. Of course, by then, the rings will be almost edge on. 2014 was my last decent view of Saturn and Mars.

[GavStar]

Stu, thanks for the heads up on the ZWO ADC - I haven't seen this before and it does look interesting. Look forward to hearing how you get on with it.

[Stu]

42 minutes ago, Gavster said:

Stu, thanks for the heads up on the ZWO ADC - I haven't seen this before and it does look interesting. Look forward to hearing how you get on with it.

I tried it just as an experiment on the moon the othe night but did something stupid. I had it ahead of the diagonal, used with a barlowed Leica zoom. This introduced some horrid astigmatism. Having read up on it a bit and contacted Steve, it seems for visual you need to have it immediately before the eyepiece, and after any Barlow to keep the focal ratio high and avoid astigmatism.

I've amended my setup now and will try it out next opportunity. Even with the astigmatism I could see how adjusting the prisms affected the amount of CA so am confident it will work well on the low planets.

[t0nedude]

6 hours ago, Stu said:

I tried it just as an experiment on the moon the othe night but did something stupid. I had it ahead of the diagonal, used with a barlowed Leica zoom. This introduced some horrid astigmatism. Having read up on it a bit and contacted Steve, it seems for visual you need to have it immediately before the eyepiece, and after any Barlow to keep the focal ratio high and avoid astigmatism.

I've amended my setup now and will try it out next opportunity. Even with the astigmatism I could see how adjusting the prisms affected the amount of CA so am confident it will work well on the low planets.

Stu, interesting point re the ZWO ADC you mentioned, I have also bookmarked it on FLO's site. Also interested to hear how you get on with it...

Tony.

[GavStar]

Stu,

Just a thought - do you think it could also work with binoviewers? I'm not quite sure how it might connect up with them?

Cheers

Gavin

[Stu]

I've just had a very quick try out with the ADC on the moon and Jupiter. The main aim was to see whether I'd sorted the astigmatism problem out, and the answer is yes. I put the Barlow ahead of the ADC then eyepiece into the ADC and the results with the it in a neutral position were the same as without.

I'm fairly sure both targets were too high to benefit from any correction, but by adjusting the levers I could see the CA increasing and then being eliminated as I brought them back to centre. I think that with a very slight amount of correction left the result was better but the real test will be on Mars and Saturn and that will have to wait for another night.

@GavsterI don't see any reason why it could not be used with Binoviewers, I'll give it a try next time. I guess it just depends upon in focus availability.

[MarsG76]

On 12/05/2016 at 19:23, psamathe said:

Can somebody set me straight on Inferior and superior conjunctions

When a planet orbits the sun that is closer to the sun than the earth is closest approach is known as inferior conjunction... A Superior conjunction is when the same planet is on the other side of the sun from us.

[CentaurZ]

My three relevant charts can be viewed near the end of the following pinned thread at the top of this same forum: https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/287169-altitude-of-the-planets-for-the-next-few-years/?page=2