Petition to regulate light pollution

[Physopto]

I have just been on too the Opticstar  web site. Peter and George have done us proud. The Light Pollution  advert is top right on the page.

I have emailed  our thanks for there very fast response to the request.

 

"Dear Peter and George Karboulonis,

I have just seen your web page with the addition of the Light Petition Advert. You were mighty quick in response to my request. Hopefully this will add to the awareness around the country.

Thank you both so much it is greatly appreciated. 

Sincerely
"

[caracol_uk]

21 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I don't think that's fair, this petition is just one of a hundred  or a thousand things every day vying for their attention. Most people will be more familiar with Mohammed Ali and be feeling like posting their feelings than signing a petition they don't really understand.

For most people light pollution simply isn't an issue they have ever thought about, they are highly unlikely to react to a single exposure asking them to act. On a 1 to 1 basis you could probably persuade most people to sign, buy making a case that was directly relevant to their interests and level of understanding.

To (stealing from marketing, but it really is the same situation) convince people, from 'cold' of a case for action you need to make them aware of the issue (typically takes three exposures to the issue), then  develop interest - just because you know about something, you may not actually be interested, then you need to develop a desire for change - get people to actually think reducing LP is a good idea, the finally they will be open to the call for action.

We can't expect many people to be at the 'ready for action' stage where a single email is enough to make them sign.

 

I don't mean to sound negative; the efforts you and others are putting in to contacting groups that have some existing awareness/interest like bat groups, astronomy groups etc. is really the best strategy we have, unless we can get some form of national publicity happening. The message is keep pestering, and pester those already likely to sign. I will send out some reminders to people I have already nudged once next week, in the form of an 'update'; so it doesn't offend anyone who has signed and asking them to get other people to sign.

 

Final thought, the theory of reasoned action suggests people are more likely to sign if they think their peers are signing, because that shows it is 'socially acceptable behaviour', so if emailing bat groups again in a week or two, put in a quote from a bat group that has taken some action etc.

I hope that comes across as positive... or at least not too negative.

I was referring to one to one contacts with a number of colleagues I've worked with for several years and therefore know quite well. 

Simon

[Stub Mandrel]

That is disappointing then :-(

1 hour ago, caracol_uk said:

I was referring to one to one contacts with a number of colleagues I've worked with for several years and therefore know quite well. 

Simon

 

[psamathe]

15 hours ago, caracol_uk said:

Over the past few days the number of signatures has been steadily dropping, and at this rate we'll fall short of our 10k goal by some way. After contacting my local bat group I received a positive response. The person I contacted signed the petition and posted a link on their facebook page which resulted in further signatures. So, I have just sent emails to the vast majority of the other bat groups across the UK. I couldn't find email addresses for all of them, but the list of addresses totalled 78 so hopefully that should generate some interest, particularly if some of them pass on the information to their members as I suggested....

Simon

Bat Conservation Trust should have a complete list. http://www.bats.org.uk/pages/find_your_local_bat_group.html.  Reason being that many activities related to bats requires a license (or significant training).  Several years ago I started doing bat rescue and it required a fair amount of training quite a long way from home and is subject to quite a few rules, etc.  To visit bat roosts you need a license, etc.  Bat Conservation Trust are part of that regulatory structure (e.g. In England the SNCO roost visits are organised by the Bat Conservation Trust).  Whilst a bat group could operate independently I doubt many do (my own group considered "going it alone" but looking into it it would have been a daft decision) - too many benefits from being a member.  But that was several years ago (and I was only a member/rescue and not involved the the group committee/organisation).

Anyway, the Bat Conservation Trust list should be the majority of them.  Around my area each group actually covers a pretty big area.

Ian

[caracol_uk]

Thanks Ian, that was the web page I used to find the local bat group web pages. From there I visited each of the web sites for the bat groups and looked for relevant email addresses. A few of the links were invalid, particularly in the Scotland area, but otherwise they were all emailed.

Simon

 

[Physopto]

The petition voting has slowed down considerably over the last few days despite many efforts by the members here.

Todays count is 5,267 votes. Astro Buy and Sell visits now 834.

That's only 70 up in 24 hrs and 17 new views of AB&S.

I got automatic replies from all three Bat emails by last night, but they will not be seen until tomorrow.

Derek

[Skipper Billy]

Its too late now but I cant help but think that this petition would have been more timely if it was launched when there was some actual darkness. 

[Physopto]

You could be right there, but bear in mind it has been running for over 4 months now.

Derek

[SteveNickolls]

Sorry if this sentiment has been posted before. We missed an opportunity when MAP was on Springwatch in the week to have light pollution raised as a topic. Sure there was brief mention of the Moon. Where are those with some public profile in leading such a campaign for us in the UK? I added my name to the petition early doors. 

Regards,

Steve

[Stub Mandrel]

I've set up a google adwords campaign with a link to the petition PLEASE DON'T CLICK IT because this will rapidly use up the small daily budget I can afford and the ad won't appear again until the next day!

estimated traffic is 3-4 a day, which isn't much, hopefully the ad will help create awareness even if it isn't clicked.

I suggest NOT creating any more because we will just compete with each other for clicks making google richer but not getting any more click-throughs.

[Skipper Billy]

I have posted a link to it on the 'News' page of our website   http://www.alba-sailing.co.uk/news/

 

[Skipper Billy]

and on our Facebook page 

https://www.facebook.com/Alba-Sailing-176176282538307/

 

 

[Physopto]

I keep doing that on Facebook. But not really sure how many actually see it.

[caracol_uk]

Over the weekend I spent some time searching around on the web for websites run by UK based amateur astronomers. I made a note of those that listed contact information and will drop them an email over lunchtime today to make them aware of the petition. There are about 50 or so on the list, and many will probably already have signed, but hopefully it'll help boost the number of signatures a bit as we're running about a day behind where we need to be based on '100 signatures a day'.

Simon

[Physopto]

The petition voting has slowed down considerably over the last few days despite many efforts by the members here.

Todays count is 5,348 votes. Astro Buy and Sell visits now 843.

That's only 81 up in 24 hrs and 9 new views of AB&S.

No email replies so far from papers or Bat societies.

Sent an email to a cousin working for the local BBC news. So he has mentioned it, but if only national relevance thinks it will be regarded as un News worthy. He and spouse have  signed as well now so 2 more anyway.

Derek

[Physopto]

Still slow.

Todays count is 5,434 votes. Astro Buy and Sell visits now 860.

That's only 86 up in 24 hrs and 17 new views of AB&S.

 

 

Derek

[mapstar]

Slightly better than yesterday and a considerable improvement on sunday so its much better in my eyes.

I keep trying to post tweets but with so little followers I'm not sure how successful they are? I'm not an avid tweeter having not used the platform much?

Will keep up with promoting the awareness. Its out there and a steady submission of votes coming in. 

[Physopto]

I have just updated the AB&S advert with information about the London light on Bridges idea. I am keeping the daily votes corrected there as well.  I'm with you Damian on Twitter. Not my cuppa and not really sure what I'm doing there at all.

Derek

[caracol_uk]

I must admit that I was expecting the numbers to be a bit higher as I received quite a few responses from the amateur astronomers I contacted yesterday informing me that they had signed. I have also just received word from two of the bat groups confirming that they have just circulated an email to their respective members.

Now, moving forwards I think I might have an idea to reach some of the other amateur astronomers but I'm going to need some help on this one. I have an account on UKastroimaging and I noticed that on the member list page you can message others by clicking the "envelope" icon if when they registered they added their email address. I think there are something like 16,000 members, and a rough glance suggests about a third of them would be contactable in this manner. Some may not be based in the UK and others may already have signed, but it could really boost the numbers a bit as the member list also shows when the accounts were last active....some many years ago. I think I'll struggle to do this for 5,000 people on my own and I was wondering if we could perhaps share the load between us? Perhaps we could divide the list up alphabetically as that's how it's displayed on the member page. If you don't already have an account you'd need to create one first, and that process takes about a day if I remember correctly. The member list page is accessed at the following link;

http://ukastroimaging.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=mlist

I really think this could make a big difference, and right now I think that's what we need. So, if anyone would like to volunteer we can then work out how we're going to split the alphabet between us.

Simon

[Physopto]

I am also a member of UKastroimaging. I agree that there are a large number of members there, but I would not want my email used in a large spamming effort. Sorry on that idea but it would annoy me intensely.

If you look on their Facebook page there is a clear reference to the Petition on that main page already. I don't want to alienate any astronomer by spamming.

 

What I have done though is to post on the website under Announcements & Site Issues a note about the Petition and a short article.

Thanks for the reminder I had forgotten that I was a member.

Derek

[psamathe]

1 hour ago, Physopto said:

... Astro Buy and Sell visits now 860.

...

Derek

I know nothing about the Astro Buy and Sell site (and my comment is not particularly relevant to getting more to sign the petition), but are the view figures reliable ?  I mention only because on many forums you get a view count which actually includes "views" from trawlers/Bots.  You get a new member, posts their question and 2 hrs later they add an angry "27 views and nobody bothered to answer my question ..." (when those views were probably largely Google, Bing, etc.).  But I've no idea if Astro Buy and Sell has the same count methodology as some forums.

Ian

[mapstar]

53 minutes ago, Physopto said:

I am also a member of UKastroimaging. I agree that there are a large number of members there, but I would not want my email used in a large spamming effort. Sorry on that idea but it would annoy me intensely.

If you look on their Facebook page there is a clear reference to the Petition on that main page already. I don't want to alienate any astronomer by spamming.

 

What I have done though is to post on the website under Announcements & Site Issues a note about the Petition and a short article.

Thanks for the reminder I had forgotten that I was a member.

Derek

Good Ideas guys.

I'm not a member of UKAI (just to re-itterate I'm not an imager) but contacting the admin or mods on the site like SGL would be a good way to go.

Also having it on their facebook page they are already aware if it.

I should imagine a lot of their members are also members here? 

Good news had a few replies on that there twitter thing so it is baring fruits. One guy responded by saying he'd signed it but it is woefully worded but it will open up debate. 

[psamathe]

11 minutes ago, mapstar said:

...I'm not a member of UKAI (just to re-itterate I'm not an imager) but contacting the admin or mods on the site like SGL would be a good way to go.

... 

I started a thread over there some time ago http://ukastroimaging.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=64431.0.

Somebody has started another more recently http://ukastroimaging.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=64570.0

Maybe worth a "Bump" with e.g." Husbands, wives, parents, children, friends, foes, hamsters are all eligible to sign as well (though probably not your hamster)", maybe from somebody other than me (not as effective if it looks like I'm using their forum for my "campaigning").

Ian

Edit: Sorry, I quoted the wrong post and should have quoted the quote the quoted post has quoted, but it's hot, just back from my bike ride and editing quotes ... probably be a disaster so sorry

[Physopto]

34 minutes ago, psamathe said:

I started a thread over there some time ago http://ukastroimaging.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=64431.0.

Somebody has started another more recently http://ukastroimaging.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=64570.0

Maybe worth a "Bump" with e.g." Husbands, wives, parents, children, friends, foes, hamsters are all eligible to sign as well (though probably not your hamster)", maybe from somebody other than me (not as effective if it looks like I'm using their forum for my "campaigning").

Ian

Edit: Sorry, I quoted the wrong post and should have quoted the quote the quoted post has quoted, but it's hot, just back from my bike ride and editing quotes ... probably be a disaster so sorry

Hi Ian,

 That was me earlier on today. Simon's post reminded me about UKastroimaging. Like a plonker I forgot I was  a member, just been too busy of late.

So I posted the article to hopefully get some interest, it is also here on the FLO blog. Steve posted it on there for me. I am sure that Damian is correct in that we have members here who are also members there like you, me and Simon.

I think I have run out of new people to tell on my own friends and family list.

Derek

[Physopto]

54 minutes ago, psamathe said:

I know nothing about the Astro Buy and Sell site (and my comment is not particularly relevant to getting more to sign the petition), but are the view figures reliable ?  I mention only because on many forums you get a view count which actually includes "views" from trawlers/Bots.  You get a new member, posts their question and 2 hrs later they add an angry "27 views and nobody bothered to answer my question ..." (when those views were probably largely Google, Bing, etc.).  But I've no idea if Astro Buy and Sell has the same count methodology as some forums.

Ian

Hi Ian,

Some of those visits are me as I can only check the numbers by visiting the add. I cannot see them when I edit to update the numbers each day.

Derek