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Andyb90

ASI1600mm cool

850 posts in this topic

On 20/04/2017 at 06:45, brrttpaul said:

I have been looking at the bundles, idealy I want the bigger filter wheel and LRGB plus HA but they only do that with the mini wheel, also I have been thinking of the miniwheel with LRGB plus the HA (think its £1795 but not sure now) then theres the miniwheel with just the LRGB at £1660 (again I think) but I can buy a HA filter for £67 I assume this is a diferent filter as it works out cheaper to buy the LRGB bundle and a single filter seperate rather tha the LRGB plus HA together? its hard work lol

The thing with the bundles is that the ZWO filters are said to be 'optimised' for use with the 1600MM-C

Not been able to find out exactly what the means in relation to other filters - or who makes these for ZWO.

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I have been told that binning does not work with CMOS sensor cameras, such as the ZWO1600MM-Cool.  

Is this true + why + is there any way round it? 

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Why bin?

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Hi, I have just found this thread and it sounds like this camera is a good step up from my DLSR. My question is has anybody used the colour rather than the mono and got good results? I know that mono and filters give brilliant results but Im not sure I would have the  patience to process all that data.

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On 4/23/2017 at 13:57, groberts said:

I have been told that binning does not work with CMOS sensor cameras, such as the ZWO1600MM-Cool.  

Is this true + why + is there any way round it? 

I have tried binning and it seems to work fine. I tend to bin RGB and leave Lum at 1x1 though, where the quality of the binned data is not so crucial. To be honest though, oversampling is not a big deal with a sensitive camera like this one at high frequency (short exposure times). If you want to use this camera on a longer focal length system, then the small pixels are going to pose an oversampling issue for you anyway and it would not necessarily be the first choice of camera anyway. For example, my main use for mine is for an imaging system at 260mm focal length...

On 4/25/2017 at 19:19, simmo39 said:

 but Im not sure I would have the  patience to process all that data.

Make no mistake, the images from this camera involve a significant number of pixels because of the sensor size and small pixel size (bigger files than an Atik 11000 as an example), so processing is a big task anyway. Mono or OSC involves big files, so the extra 'hassle' of mono data doesn't really come across as a big issue for me in processing terms. Gathering the data in the first place is a different argument, but in pure processing terms, I think there is nothing to worry about. Also, processing is where all the fun lies ;)

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OK thanks but I remain confused.  Here's the response on the APT forum I got on binning which I do not fully understand:

Quote

I'm not sure why you'd bin your colour images but presumably you do this because you've read about this technique somewhere. If that is the case please remember that this only works for CCD cameras that do analogue binning where the charge from multiple pixels is measured in one shot by the ADC. With CMOS this isn't possible. Binning is done after ADC. It is still useful to reduce image size but that's about it. You might as well shoot 1:1 and then resize during post.

The camera “can” be used for binning but that doesn't mean you should. Binning with this camera simply adds already digitized values together. There is no SNR benefit to doing this but the resolution you is lost forever. This is different for CCD cameras where you can trade resolution for increased SNR. Be careful when applying recipes for CCD cameras to CMOS ones.

Looking at my images in Fits Liberator it looks like binning has been applied but in view of the above, does it really work + is it a good idea or not with this camera.  
 

 

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Having only done DLSR deep sky stuff, I usually use 6 min exposures, with the 1600MM or 1600 MC what kind of exposure times would I be looking at to get the same sort of data?  I assume it will be far shorter?

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Hi simmo. It depends what scope you use, the target, lrgb or narrowband and the gain settings you choose. I find i'm using about 60 second subs for narrowband and rgb and i adjust the gain to suit. 

These are 60 second subs at f4.9. 

rosette6hrMadCurve.thumb.jpg.610d133ec36084732937b81427892322.jpg

590216c60420a_leotripcrop4.thumb.jpg.919bc0691a72eed1889fce41bb4c8971.jpg

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I forgot to add that the mono version is the one to go for pure versatility. All the best images i've seen taken with these cameras are with the mono, and if you get auto focusing working then it's a no brainer. That's not to say you won't get good results with the osc. But you have to weigh up the pros and cons of each and apply them to your particular situation.

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1 hour ago, Allinthehead said:

I forgot to add that the mono version is the one to go for pure versatility. All the best images i've seen taken with these cameras are with the mono, and if you get auto focusing working then it's a no brainer. That's not to say you won't get good results with the osc. But you have to weigh up the pros and cons of each and apply them to your particular situation.

V nice. The more i see the more i want. I would be using it with my SW 130 PDS . The other thing is going to cause a big sharp intake of breath. I'm really drawn to the osc version, just because of ease of use. As much as I'm wowed by the mono images i don't think i could put up with all the extra processing.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, simmo39 said:

As much as I'm wowed by the mono images i don't think i could put up with all the extra processing.

I hear ya. I had the same thoughts you have when deciding and as i said only you can decide what is the right gear for you.

Here's a thread that might be of interest to you. 

Richard.

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Hi guys I was wondering as im progressing with the obsy so shouldnt be long untill everything is set up, I used to guide with the mini cam connected to my usb on the laptop do I still guide like that or do I use the usb on the back of the 1600? Im using eqmod and sgpro, I used to use astrotortilla fo centering but been reading up on sgpro so aim to use that. cheers

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use the usb hub on the 1600

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Thx Julian, I thought as much but wernt sure

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Binning is not the same in the ASI1600mmc as it is in a CCD as you are still reading each individual pixel as opposed to summing the pixels prior to readout so the raw signal to noise ratio is not effected...its more akin to a simple average of four pixels of a given signal to noise, not nearly as effective.

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FYI, One thing I found on the ASI forum, is that the hub is only powered when the camera is supplied with 12v for the cooling... 

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Yes, that's right.

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23 hours ago, Dr_Ju_ju said:

FYI, One thing I found on the ASI forum, is that the hub is only powered when the camera is supplied with 12v for the cooling... 

Although I must bow to Gina's and your own wide experience I remain puzzled by this statement. When I first tried the camera I did not have enough leads to power up the cooler. However, with the filter wheel and the Lynx EQ USB adapter both plugged in to the hub on the camera, the mount could be controlled and the filter wheel worked. I have the kit indoors at the moment and have just tried again and sure enough filter wheel and mount control operate without the hub being powered by simply running a USB3 cable to the cameras' USB port from the laptop.

I may well be misreading something. :hmh:  - John  

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If the built-in hub is the same as any other external hub, the low-power stuff like the filter wheel and the USB-to-Serial will work without the external power.

Plug in a guide camera too and it may then fall over.

Michael

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Posted (edited)

Bear in mind that a powered hub will still work when not powered.  It's just that it can't supply more power to USB devices than available from the USB source whereas powering it will give the full 500mA standard USB power on all outputs at the same time.

Edited by Gina
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At the point of sounding stupid why would you take the risk? I mean why set up and not want to switch on your cooling after paying for it? am i missing something here?

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11 hours ago, Dr_Ju_ju said:

Hi John,

This is the thread where I found the info http://zwoug.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=7008  

Many thanks Julian for the link, a whole new website to read!

Like many other imagers I have to set up my kit on each occasion with data management through an 'Amazon Basics' powered USB3 Hub velcroed to the battery box. It works very well surprisingly! One port feeds the USB3 port on the camera and from there USB2 feeds to the filter wheel and the EQ adapter. Having connected the setup together when I first got the camera I could not power the cooler. However, as everything functioned at that time, I was surprised by the suggestion that the camera hub would only work if powered by the cooler 12v supply as that was not my experience.

At no time was I suggesting that you should pay lots of money for a camera and not use it to its' full potential. :happy11:  

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