Point Grey Grasshopper USB3 IMX174 Advice please

[Ewan]

Hi guys / gals.

Really hoping for some productive advice on using the above but first I should explain on what system it's being used.

My laptop is not top of the range & only has a 5400 standard HD, the HD will be cloned out onto a new 1TB Samsung SSD very soon so this may help with frame rate capture, as to how much I don't know.

The cpu is only an  i3 5010U 2.1 Ghz Dual Core with 8Gb 1600Mhz DDR3, maybe this is way too slow as well ?

I previously used IC Capture with TIS DMK""618 & it was very straightforward & worked like a charm, with the PG camera I got the Genika Astro software & Flycapture from PG, both have a ton of settings I am not used to so could do with some pointers or a tutorial link if one exists.

At full res 1920 x 1200 it dawdled along at under 20Fps & at 2x2 Bining 960 x 600 res it did 50Fps, both a huge disappointment. I know my laptop isn't top of the range but even I expected faster than that.

So I am now wondering whether to get another new laptop as well as the SSD.

If anyone else can supply there laptop specs, ccd used & frame rate captures so I have some examples to go on that could help as well.

In IC Capture I can drop the Gamma right down, up the Exp until Sol just starts to show on the preview then up the Gain to make surface & spot detail inky black showing a lot of detail to focus on, works really well.

With Genika & FlyCapture I just could not get this to happen, the image was either over exposed or just too bright to be of any use.

Just hope the PG isn't going to end up in the bin at this rate.

Very frustrated at the moment that's for sure.

Thanks for reading, if you got this far you really have patience. 

[riklaunim]

Flycap is just Point Grey testing application. Genika as well as free FireCapture are the capture applications. The second is more common and should be easier to use. CPU isn't used nearly at all during capture. RAM by default also - unless the app will use if for data cache.

The current HDD may be to slow. You can check in FireCapture - set short enough exposure, so that it will predict max FPS - and then start recording. If the FPS drop to those 20 FPS then that's your limit. Note that for planetary imaging you use a ROI - small subframe of the sensor, that then can be recorded at much faster framerates. Binning should not be used for that. Full frame is used for Lunar/Solar.

[knobby]

Is your laptop usb3 ?

[Ewan]

2 minutes ago, knobby said:

Is your laptop usb3 ?

Sure is, all drivers are in as well, I just can't believe that an SSD drive, however fast it is, will go from doing 20Fps with a standard drive upto 162Fps, it just cant be that slow.

Rupert at Astrograph kind of explained a few things but almost like ive used a PG & that Software before so still very unclear, the figures he was giving me were also based on 4Gb of Ram & I have at least double that.

The Laptop is about 6 months old, next to nowt running on it as it's only for astro stuff.

[riklaunim]

5 minutes ago, knobby said:

Is your laptop usb3 ?

Broadwell without USB3? Would be very weird.

[Ewan]

I am wondering if a separate power supply for the PG might be best.

 

[riklaunim]

3 minutes ago, Ewan said:

I am wondering if a separate power supply for the PG might be best.

 

Underpowered USB3 is not something you should have on a modern laptop. Underpowered camera either doesn't work or constantly stops working, reset settings and so on. Just check FireCapture, as low price HDD may easily be slower than throughput of USB3 camera stream

[Ewan]

1 minute ago, riklaunim said:

Underpowered USB3 is not something you should have on a modern laptop. Underpowered camera either doesn't work or constantly stops working, reset settings and so on. Just check FireCapture, as low price HDD may easily be slower than throughput of USB3 camera stream

Rik, can I test Firecapture out in doors now or is it best while imaging the sun ?

[JamesF]

The rates you quote are far closer to what I'd expect with USB2 than USB3.  I hesitate to ask, but these things need to be checked   It's possible that the machine has both USB2 and USB3 ports.  Is the camera definitely plugged into a USB3 port?

Are those frame rates when you're saving data, or just streaming them to view on the screen without saving?  If the latter then I can't see that the hard disk can be much to do with it.

I definitely think it's worth trying another capture application too.  I've used flycapture for testing, but I've no idea what its performance is actually like.

James

[JamesF]

3 minutes ago, Ewan said:

Rik, can I test Firecapture out in doors now or is it best while imaging the sun ?

You can do it indoors whenever you like.  You won't necessarily get a meaningful image, but if all you want to check is how fast you can get frames from the camera that's really not an issue.

James

[riklaunim]

4 minutes ago, Ewan said:

Rik, can I test Firecapture out in doors now or is it best while imaging the sun ?

Test it now. You don't have to capture any meaningful image. Black frame will do too.

[Ewan]

2 minutes ago, JamesF said:

The rates you quote are far closer to what I'd expect with USB2 than USB3.  I hesitate to ask, but these things need to be checked   It's possible that the machine has both USB2 and USB3 ports.  Is the camera definitely plugged into a USB3 port?

Are those frame rates when you're saving data, or just streaming them to view on the screen without saving?  If the latter then I can't see that the hard disk can be much to do with it.

I definitely think it's worth trying another capture application too.  I've used flycapture for testing, but I've no idea what its performance is actually like.

James

Yep the laptop does have 1 USB2 But PG was plugged in one of the 2 USB3 ports.

[Davey-T]

Required laptop spec according to PG. also says seperate power supply recommended for laptop use.

Dave

 

[Ewan]

9 minutes ago, riklaunim said:

Test it now. You don't have to capture any meaningful image. Black frame will do too.

You mean leave the cap on the camera Rik ? :-), if so I did that yesterday when I got it, hit the record button & it did 87Fps, I was prepared for under 100 frames until I get the SSD, but today when actually imaging with it the rates dropped like a stone.

[Ewan]

2 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

Required laptop spec according to PG. also says seperate power supply recommended for laptop use.

Dave

 

Exactly Dave which is why I am a little miffed.

I have dabbled with Firecapture so I should be able to get on better with that than Genika & FlyCrapture

[riklaunim]

6 minutes ago, Ewan said:

You mean leave the cap on the camera Rik ? :-), if so I did that yesterday when I got it, hit the record button & it did 87Fps, I was prepared for under 100 frames until I get the SSD, but today when actually imaging with it the rates dropped like a stone.

Different USB port? (the one that is actually 2.0?), antivirus scanning, something else being made on the HDD  (like Windows downloading updates in background) ? You have to test, test, test Then you will have true answers.

[Ewan]

:-) no same port, I make sure.

I also shut stuff down & unscheduled what windows has scheduled as well, also anti virus off.

I will keep at it though. I am sure I will get there.

[Ewan]

Hmm well I double clicked Firecapture & it didn't even run.

 

EDIT.........might be because 64Bit might be better

[riklaunim]

32/64 bit must match the drivers 32/64 bit drivers installed. Also sometimes FC can't find those drivers and will write in a text log file which DLL it can't find - so if it won't see PGR camera check the log file.

[Ewan]

16 minutes ago, riklaunim said:

32/64 bit must match the drivers 32/64 bit drivers installed. Also sometimes FC can't find those drivers and will write in a text log file which DLL it can't find - so if it won't see PGR camera check the log file.

It's working ok Rik but just one thing, I can only select SER as there is no AVI option, any idea why ?

[Davey-T]

Firecapture should run with no camera attached, just goes to dummy camera mode.

Dave

[Ewan]

Heres a quick log file, anyone see anything blindingly obvious I messed up ?

 

FireCapture v2.5 beta Settings
------------------------------------
Observer=Ewan Hobbs
Scope=152mm TecnoSky
Camera=Grasshopper3 GS3-U3-23S6M
Filter=L
Profile=Mars
Diameter=14.61"
Magnitude=-1.15
CM=61.6°  (during mid of capture)
Filename=Mars_224607.ser
Date=200416
Start=224600.563
Mid=224607.201
End=224613.839
Start(UT)=214600.563
Mid(UT)=214607.201
End(UT)=214613.839
Duration=13.276s
Date_format=ddMMyy
Time_format=HHmmss
LT=UT
Frames captured=418
File type=SER
Binning=no
Bit depth=16bit
ROI=1920x1200
ROI(Offset)=0x0
FPS (avg.)=31
Shutter=0.009ms
Gain=0 (0%)
Gamma=1206
Sharpness=1024 (off)
AutoExposure=off
Mode7=off
AutoHisto=75 (off)
Exposure=1
FPS=163.31 (off)
Brightness=118
SoftwareGain=10 (off)
Histogramm(min)=112
Histogramm(max)=132
Histogramm=3%
Noise(avg.deviation)=n/a
Limit=20 Seconds
Sensor temperature=55.4 °C

[riklaunim]

2 minutes ago, Ewan said:

It's working ok Rik but just one thing, I can only select SER as there is no AVI option, any idea why ?

Maybe the "16 bit" checkbox is selected? Or it's in a mode that sends full 10 or 12 bit data stream (which it can do). On the FC mailing list https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/firecapture/info you could ask owners of similar PGR cameras why/how it should work.

[Ewan]

If I turn 16Bit mode off I got Avg Fps = 69,  cant find anything to counter the 163 Fps = Off though.

[Ewan]

Yep I guess a SSD might just get me there.

The Preview FPS is 160+ so it does wok as it should, shame I cant capture at that for now though.

 

Btw AVI option has just showed up but was not there before.