The Universe as a Supersaturated Solution

[steadyonabix]

Hello

I am a new member here and this is my first posting, so apologies in advance if I inadvertently break any conventions.

Like many laymen – I am a software engineer – I greatly enjoy the few quality programs I see on TV about the nature of the universe and astrophysics in general. As a consequence I have given a lot of thought to the current 'problems' with the existing models of the universe. In particular of late, The Galaxy Rotation Problem as described here on Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_rotation_curve

For the past few years I have felt more strongly than ever that the universe is actually a supersaturated solution. With us, the observable part, afloat within it. To my layman's eye, I think such a model can explain the following problems:

• The Expansion of the Universe is accelerating
• The Big Bang Theory relies on a mystery
• The Rotational Curve of Galaxies relies on the addition of Dark Matter to be explained

So for the first time I have set out my thoughts on the subject here on my Wordpress site:

https://bradleyatkins.wordpress.com/2016/04/07/a-new-model-of-the-universe

I would love to get feedback from the enthusiasts and experts here.

In addition, should any of you see any merit in my model, then perhaps you could help me tighten up the language and add a little more authentic terminology?

Kind Regards

Bradley

 

[michaelmorris]

It's an interesting way of looking at the universe, but taking your 'supersaturated solution' analogy to its logical conclusion there would need to be a 'solvent'.  To my mind this starts straying into the idea of an 'ether' which permates the universe, an idea that has been widely discredited.

I'm afraid that without any mathematics to describe how your proposal would work, it remains just conjecture, rather than a theory.

[Joe12345]

I agree with the above post. We have already done experiments which agree with models without an ether, so to reintroduced one again would require lots of difficult explanations, and would involve giving up Maxwell's equations, Einstein's equations, and the current, pretty perfect, model of the universe. I would recommend this book if you're going to try to make a different model of the universe, as it should give you a better understanding of what is and isn't possible.

Nice idea though, I'm sure Einstein's very first hypothesis was far from correct!

[steadyonabix]

Hmm. I thought I had explained that the solvent was supposed to be "Dark Matter" but it seems I wasn't as clear on that as I thought. 

Hadn't thought I was introducing an ether into the model....

Thanks for the feed back. 

Much appreciated

[mpc755]

Black holes banish matter into cosmic voids

Quote

But Haider's team also found that a surprising fraction of normal matter - 20% - is likely to be have been transported into the voids. The culprit appears to be the supermassive black holes found in the centres of galaxies. Some of the matter falling towards the holes is converted into energy. This energy is delivered to the surrounding gas, and leads to large outflows of matter, which stretch for hundreds of thousands of light years from the black holes, reaching far beyond the extent of their host galaxies.

At the scale of our Universe the energy described above is dark energy.  A Universal black hole is powering the Universal lobe we exist in.

[ollypenrice]

In some ways a sound wave resembles a light wave. But sound is not light. Beware anaolgies.

Olly

[Macavity]

6 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

In some ways a sound wave resembles a light wave. But sound is not light. Beware anaolgies.

Ah, now that is so true. The Classical Time "Four Elements" theory works pretty well by analogy.

People often turn up on science-related forums with interesting ideas - Usually based on analogy.
Mostly their hopes are dashed and/or ridiculed. The internet can be a HARSH critic! I know a bit -
Ex-Physicist / phenomenologist? But if I were serious about such an idea, I would ask a "friendly"
Theoretician whether it was really viable. Many "Alternative" ideas have already been explored...  

[Ravenous]

On ‎09‎/‎04‎/‎2016 at 16:11, steadyonabix said:

In addition, should any of you see any merit in my model, then perhaps you could help me tighten up the language and add a little more authentic terminology?

Not worth me saying anything about the terminology - with science the only thing that matters is the content. Creative writing is fine but science has to be right. Wilfully incorrect arguments dressed up in authentic terminology is for flat-earthers.

For example: a solution in a liquid is a completely different thing, there are various forces which cause some things to be soluble and some not, and the solution itself carries a lot of the soluble material in a thinly spread form (diffusion) and there are all sorts of other things like the mechanical and thermal behaviour of the bulk. This argument by analogy would just be shot to pieces in any sort of scientific company I'm afraid.

[michaelmorris]

On 09/04/2016 at 00:49, mpc755 said:

Black holes banish matter into cosmic voids

At the scale of our Universe the energy described above is dark energy.  A Universal black hole is powering the Universal lobe we exist in.

I admire your certainty!  Professional scientist talk in terms of theories, probabilities and best evidence.  They do not state that they are certain of the mechanism that causes an effect.  When it comes to Dark Energy the level of uncertainty is extremely high.  As far as I am aware, NO ONE knows what it is, how it acts or even whether it is a form of energy - we simply know that something seems to causing space to (on a large scale) expand at an ever increasing rate.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

On 4/9/2016 at 01:49, mpc755 said:

Black holes banish matter into cosmic voids

At the scale of our Universe the energy described above is dark energy.  A Universal black hole is powering the Universal lobe we exist in.

Not really. Whilst it is not clear what dark energy is, the jets emanating from active galactic nuclei can be understood without resorting to dark energy as an explanation, strongly suggesting it is not involved.

[mpc755]

4 hours ago, michaelmorris said:

I admire your certainty!  Professional scientist talk in terms of theories, probabilities and best evidence.  They do not state that they are certain of the mechanism that causes an effect.  When it comes to Dark Energy the level of uncertainty is extremely high.  As far as I am aware, NO ONE knows what it is, how it acts or even whether it is a form of energy - we simply know that something seems to causing space to (on a large scale) expand at an ever increasing rate.

That something is the Universal black hole powering the Universal lobe we exist in.

[mpc755]

3 hours ago, michael.h.f.wilkinson said:

Not really. Whilst it is not clear what dark energy is, the jets emanating from active galactic nuclei can be understood without resorting to dark energy as an explanation, strongly suggesting it is not involved.

The article is not referring to the jets. The article is referring to the energy the supermassive black hole is emitting which pushes the particles of matter, the gas, far beyond the extent of the host galaxy.

At the scale of our Universe this energy is referred to as dark energy.

[andrew s]

As I said in a previous thread on this the article (I have read it) is referring to totally normal forms of energy i.e. the kinetic energy of normal matter and electromagnetic radiation (EM). It is the radiation pressure from the EM that pushes the normal matter particles into the voids.

I know mpc755 will  not accept this but read the paper for yourselves it is not that difficult.

Regards Andrew

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Exactly. The dark energy acting at cosmic scales is not capable to stop contraction at the scales of these black holes, or indeed the galaxies themselves, hence their very existence. Kinetic energy and radiation pressure are amongst the mechanisms that propels the gas away.

[mpc755]

Which at the scale of the Universal black hole is propelling the galaxy clusters away from each other. For the analogy, the supermassive black hole causes the particles of matter, the gas, to be pushed far beyond the extent of the galaxy itself. The Universal black hole pushes the galaxy clusters. At the scale of the Universal black hole the galaxy clusters are the particles of matter, the gas.

[Alien 13]

After reading this I have had a thought now that's very rare for me but does empty space have any mass? because if it did and some space in the universe is moving/expanding at more than the speed of light that would be a whole lot of energy.

Alan

[andrew s]

21 minutes ago, Alien 13 said:

After reading this I have had a thought now that's very rare for me but does empty space have any mass? because if it did and some space in the universe is moving/expanding at more than the speed of light that would be a whole lot of energy.

Alan

It depends what you mean by empty. If space has mass/energy then it is not empty. Under the standard cosmological LCDM model in general it has both. Also energy is not invariant under a change of reference frame e.g. wrt to my chair I am at rest and have no kinetic energy but compared to a meson at near the speed of light heading towards me I have a very high kinetic energy. Conservation of energy is a difficult subject in general relativity as it results from time reversal symmetry which is not always respected the case in GR. 

 

Regards Andrew

[mpc755]

47 minutes ago, Alien 13 said:

does empty space have any mass?

Yes! You have just figured out one of the biggest misconceptions in physics today!

Dark matter is not a weakly interacting clump of stuff that travels with the matter. Dark matter fills 'empty' space and is displaced by matter. The "missing mass" is the mass of the dark matter connected to and neighboring the matter which is displaced by the matter.

In terms of the article I linked to earlier the energy associated with a supermassive black hole is actually matter evaporating into dark matter as it falls toward the black hole. It is the dark matter which is emitted by the black hole which pushes the particles of matter, the gas, far beyond the extent of the host galaxy. This is also occurring at the scale of the Universal black hole. It is emitting dark matter into our Universal lobe which pushes the galaxy clusters away from us. This process is dark energy.

The dark matter does not have to be moving through the Universe faster than the speed of light. The analogy is throwing a stick into a river. As long as the water is flowing faster than the stick the stick will continue to accelerate as the water pushes it as it flows past the stick. This is analogous to what the dark matter is doing to the galaxy clusters.

[andrew s]

11 minutes ago, mpc755 said:

In terms of the article I linked to earlier and the energy associated with a supermassive black hole is actually matter evaporating into dark matter as it falls toward the black hole. It is the dark matter which is emitted by the black hole which pushes the particles of matter, the gas, far beyond the extent of the host galaxy.

The article does not state or imply this in any shape or form. mpc755 has his own cosmological theory which is not supported by any of the references he quotes. He takes phrases and conclusion and reinterprets them into his cosmology. As an example he states " the energy associated with a supermassive black hole is actually matter evaporating into dark matter" this has no theoretical or experimental support in conventional physics.

 mpc755 may be right and all conventional theories wrong but I would not bet on it. 

Regards Andrew

[mpc755]

1 minute ago, andrew s said:

 mpc755 may be right and all conventional theories wrong but I would not bet on it. 

The post I was responding to asked, "does empty space have any mass?". The answer is, yes it does. If you don't want to understand this then that is fine. However, 'empty' space does have mass which is displaced by matter whether you choose to understand it, or not. This is getting off topic but I think it is worth this single response.

[0903.3802] The Milky Way's dark matter halo appears to be lopsided

Quote

"the emerging picture of the dark matter halo of the Milky Way is dominantly lopsided in nature."

The Milky Way's halo is not a clump of dark matter traveling along with the Milky Way. The Milky Way's halo is lopsided due to the matter in the Milky Way moving through and displacing the dark matter, analogous to a submarine moving through and displacing the water.

What physicists mistake for the density of the dark matter is actually the state of displacement of the dark matter. Physicists think they are determining the density of the dark matter by how much it and the matter curve spacetime. What they fail to realize is the state of displacement of the dark matter is curved spacetime.

No one can make you correctly understand what occurs physically in nature. You have to want to correctly understand what occurs physically in nature in order to do so. You have to be willing and able to.

[Macavity]

For some reason, I don't seem to be able to quote NEW posts!

Quote

After reading this I have had a thought now that's very rare for me but does empty space have any mass? because if it did and some space in the universe is moving/expanding at more than the speed of light that would be a whole lot of energy.

Alan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_energy (And embedded links)

In the sense that "empty space" (the vacuum) is not actually empty and mass & energy are
usually seen as interchangeable... Probably. But it "depends on assumptions and reasoning".
But you get all this from conventional, established Physics. No "new" theories are needed.

Food for thought:

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/vacuum.html 

 

[andrew s]

To quote The Who "Messiahs pointed to the door / And no one had the guts to leave the temple" well I am not going in.

Regards Andrew

 

[Stu]

1 hour ago, mpc755 said:

The post I was responding to asked, "does empty space have any mass?". The answer is, yes it does. If you don't want to understand this then that is fine. However, 'empty' space does have mass which is displaced by matter whether you choose to understand it, or not. This is getting off topic but I think it is worth this single response.

[0903.3802] The Milky Way's dark matter halo appears to be lopsided

The Milky Way's halo is not a clump of dark matter traveling along with the Milky Way. The Milky Way's halo is lopsided due to the matter in the Milky Way moving through and displacing the dark matter, analogous to a submarine moving through and displacing the water.

What physicists mistake for the density of the dark matter is actually the state of displacement of the dark matter. Physicists think they are determining the density of the dark matter by how much it and the matter curve spacetime. What they fail to realize is the state of displacement of the dark matter is curved spacetime.

No one can make you correctly understand what occurs physically in nature. You have to want to correctly understand what occurs physically in nature in order to do so. You have to be willing and able to.

Are you basically saying that you alone have come up with a new theory which is correct, and that the combined intellectual capacity of the world's physicists have got it all wrong?

This is a concept which I am struggling with....

[mpc755]

1 hour ago, Alien 13 said:

does empty space have any mass?

Dark matter is now understood to fill what would otherwise be considered to be empty space.

Cosmologists at Penn Weigh Cosmic Filaments and Voids

Quote

Dark matter ... permeates all the way to the center of the voids.

"No Empty Space in the Universe" --Dark Matter Discovered to Fill Intergalactic Space

Quote

A long standing mystery on where the missing dark matter is has been solved by the research. There is no empty space in the universe. The intergalactic space is filled with dark matter."Dark matter is not a weakly interacting clump of stuff that travels with the matter. Dark matter fills the space unoccupied by particles of matter and is displaced by the particles of matter which exist in it and move through it.

Dark matter which fills the space unoccupied by particles of matter is displaced by the particles of matter which exist in it and move through it. Dark matter strongly interacts with matter. Dark matter is displaced by matter.

The state of displacement of the dark matter is curved spacetime.

The state of displacement of the dark matter is gravity.

[andrew s]

We have been here before:

Round like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning on an ever-spinning reel
Like a snowball down a mountain, or a carnival balloon
Like a carousel that's turning running rings around the moon
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping past the minutes on its face
And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind
 

Time to close?

Regards Andrew