Delos or Morpheus, a Question on Two?

[Fozzie]

It’s a simple question really, which two would best suit..?

 

Gone are the ExSci 82’s to loving new homes, whilst I really enjoyed these EP’s I found myself leaning towards the optical quality of the SLV’s and probably more importantly the ease of use in respects to the eye relief they offered over the ExSci 82’s. 

 

Hence the entrance of the Delos (and Morpheus) ***EDIT (Mmmmmmm What about the LVW's from Vixen?)*** in to the frame.. This is a 4 out and 2 in calculation (for now) as I have a very nice 2x ExSci focal extender which will double my EP’s more than adequately.

 

However, I feel the above puts me in a tricky situation, because I do not in any way want to defunct the SLV’s by doubling up, but I feel it’s necessary for me to have the option of a wider field of view, available, in the collection.

 

I should probably point out, I have/am seriously considering the Morpheus range however I’m struggling to get past, primarily their appearance (I just do not like it), and the apparent issues in relation to the interchangeable eye guards and loose fitting…   I am favouring the Delos as a buy and keep for a long time investment.

 

So in respect to the ExSci 82’s, out went the 4.7mm, 11mm 14mm and 18mm.  I have kept the 24mm ExSci 68 (which should give me a nice 12mm 68deg EP’s with focal extender)

 

And the scope specs are thus,

 

• 200mm F5 1000mm Newt
• 102mm F11 1125mm Frac
• 72mm F6 432mm ED Frac

 

So the question is, what should come in??? Im currently thinking 17.3mm and 10mm Delos

 

Your suggestions on this are very welcome, before I try wanted adds, or just buy out right!

 

Ta (as always)

 

Fozzie

 

*BTW I have the 5mm, 6mm, 9mm, 12mm, 15mm, 20mm, and 25mm SLV’s) hence the 10mm Delos over the 12 as I would have lots of duplication here..

 

**Oh and before anyone suggests selling the SLV’s to cover another Delos or the like (you know who you are, you fiendish lot) it’s not happening as they make a nice light weight set, give cracking WL and very pleasant to use?

[John]

My knee jerk reaction is to say Delos.

Tele Vue seem to have wrapped just about everything into the Delos eyepieces. The Morpheus is clearly very, very good and quite probably the best eyepiece to carry the Baader brand apart from the Genuine Orthos but if I went for the Morpheus I'd be pretty confident that I'd be thinking "what if....." quite a lot about the Delos.

If you are thinking Delos you ought to be thinking Pentax XW's as well, at least for focal lengths from 10mm and down

The SLV's are in the same optical league as the XW's and Delos BTW but if you want wide field they are not that.

 

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Why not go for the Pentax XW10 (and XW7) to sit nicely in between some SLVs, especially because they are almost perfectly parfocal? I have made my Delos 8 parfocal with a suitable ring. so that is certainly an option. I had a Morpheus 14mm for a while, but although the centre 85-90% of the field is as sharp as the Delos/XW camp, I did not like the field curvature in the outer  bits. I now have a 14mm Delos in its place.

[Fozzie]

Good point Gents on the XW's I'd not really considered them, subconsciously ruled them out in the higher focal lengths I think due to FC on the two shorter FL scopes.  However I know the short FL XW's are keeping company with the best.

3 hours ago, John said:

My knee jerk reaction is to say Delos.

Tele Vue seem to have wrapped just about everything into the Delos eyepieces. The Morpheus is clearly very, very good and quite probably the best eyepiece to carry the Baader brand apart from the Genuine Orthos but if I went for the Morpheus I'd be pretty confident that I'd be thinking "what if....." quite a lot about the Delos.

 

Im gathering this, they seem to be a real benchmark, and will be for sometime to come!

 

3 hours ago, John said:

The SLV's are in the same optical league as the XW's and Delos BTW but if you want wide field they are not that.

The SLV's completely changed my viewing enjoyment, more so than any other astro kit has since I started out a few years ago, I genuinely think they have had that much of an impact from comfort of use to teasing out detail and contrast.. I've no issue with the 50deg field of view, but then I could also go to the 82's if I felt the target warranted it.. I like circa 18mm as a Focal length so I was 99% sure on the 17.3mm but it was the 10mm or 12mm delos that was confusing me, more so when used with the 2x extender as I think I get more use out of 6mm than 5mm, but i'm overly covered with 12mm EP's, and haven't got a 10mm in the box with out the use of a telextender..

 

Guess that's why I'd like to replace the 82's

 

3 hours ago, michael.h.f.wilkinson said:

Why not go for the Pentax XW10 (and XW7) to sit nicely in between some SLVs, especially because they are almost perfectly parfocal?

 Parfocal, as in no need to alter focus point.. I've seen this mentioned.. daft question but should I be more concerned about this than I am? I'm still newb at this really?

Ta

Fozzie

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I like EPs to be parfocal at the short end in particular, because I can then switch magnification without the need for refocusing. This is handy in planetary viewing, because you can then quickly tune to changing seeing conditions. Not essential, but nice to have.

[Fozzie]

Thanks Michael, I can see the benefits of that, teasing out increased magnifications that the conditions allow..

[John]

I agree with Michael regarding parfocalility (is that a word ???) of eyepieces, especially at high powers.

[Mark at Beaufort]

Whilst I was in attendance at SGLX1 I really enjoyed looking at some of Shane's TeleVue DeLite range. I think the 18.2mm and 11mm look an excellent choice especially only reading positive reviews on these EPs. I am thinking of getting the 11mm myself not having a current EP in that particular range.

[jkwhinfrey]

I've found myself pondering very similar issues recently Fozzie... and I have a couple of F5 newtonians and the Starwave too. Could it be a case of separated at birth I wonder because I also have the same SLVs 5–12mm as you too, and the tele-extender!

I was comparing a 7mm Delite with my 7mm Nirvana and the SLVs last night, and it's better, though not by much over the SLVs I'm glad to say. I'm definitely keeping it and would add another if one turned up for the right price (11mm perhaps despite the competition Mark), but it's not really wide is it. 

I also like the comfort of the SLVs and the Delite, but that's not just about eye relief for me it seems. I have a 24mm Panoptic and a 16mm ES68 – with very tight ER– and consider them both fantastic (but no spacewalk of course).

You see the 82 degree EPs I have 7 and 16mm Nirvanas and an 11mm ES82 aren't quite ringing my bell either. The field is wide, and they're all lovely eyepieces, but I don't get the spacewalk thing that's supposed to start at this AFOV. I find that the narrower field (50–68 AFOV) helps define what I'm observing nicely, and is particularly helpful when sketching, even with a manual mount. And that's got me questioning how wide is wide enough for me: 82 currently feels too wide, so perhaps 72 AFOV, or do I need 100 AFOV to see if I can understand the spacewalk thing? Expensive questions...

I'm sure you've already been here, but I guess my rambling is to ask why you need wider field, and what that is?

It seems to me that wider fields are helpful if you're using a manual mount at high magnification (large Dob users particularly, but the Starwave too), so Michael's suggestion works well here. They might also be good for low power wide field in a short scope, like the 72mm refractor you've got, we're in your original territory here, but a cheaper ES68 might work just as well.

I've never used any of the eyepieces being discussed – Delos, XW and Morpheus – but I'd only consider the Delos used and the same might go for the XW due to cost. If I did then 12mm or shorter for these I think.

I'm considering giving the Morpheus a go mainly due to the lower price, good reviews, intermediate AFOV and maybe looking into the pool of an eye lens at IAS last year  The rubbish eye cup and 'interesting' marketing is a bit off-putting, but they're much cheaper new than the others. I think I'd start with the 9mm (avoids exit pupil/floater issues with the F11) or 12.5mm despite the duplication because these eyepieces would be for different purposes and nights than the other set. Besides, Michael's put me off the 14mm.

Sorry if that doesn't help, but thank you for letting me get that off my chest

James

 

[Mak the Night]

I have a 10mm Delos. It's probably the best EP I've ever used. I can't recommend it enough.

[John]

The best wide field eyepiece that I've used is quite probably the 10mm pentax XW. I've just ordered one and a 7mm to complete my short FL XW set.

I did have a 10mm Delos for a while and it was really nice as well.

 

[alan potts]

I have had all of the Delos range and still hang on to the two shortest. If you can be content with the smaller FOV at 72 degrees over the Baaders then I feel you are going to be hard pressed to better any of them with anything on the market. I will agree the shorter Pentax XW's are as good and I may even prefer them very slightly but the focal lengths are not matched below 10mm. apart from the shortest which I did review.

The other thing is no matter what scope you put them in they deliver and I found all have better CA control at the very outer edge, though most will never look that deep.

 

[Piero]

To me, the delos are great eyepieces. I am very happy with them and generally prefer them over my naglers T6. I think that nowadays the great feature of the Naglers T6 is their compactness which comes at the expenses of comfort, to me. 

If you haven't ever looked through a Delos (or a wide field / long eye relief eyepiece), I suggest you to spend a bit of time finding the best eye placement for you, without worrying too much. This might seem something trivial for expert users, but I have to say that with my little experience in eyepieces this took me a little bit of learning.

Personally, I don't think your Vixen SLV would be redundant when next to delos / pentax eyepieces because the latter are still quite long and heavy whereas the formers can make perfect light grab and go. On solar observation, I prefer the vixen slv because to me they are easier to use on this target. 

Eye relief / large lenses.. oh dear..! this is what made me fall in love with these eyepieces.  

[Fozzie]

I'll cover some quick answers here.. if I can..

@jkwhinfrey love that, brother from another mother.. I've not considered the delites because I felt that 62deg was not enough of a departure from the SLV's to really justify it, where as the delos/Morpheus/xw/lvw are nearer to the departed 82deg..  In that respect I started to not overly enjoy the ExSci 82 due simply to eye relief.. but the 11mm and 14mm have given me simply astonishing views of clusters , globs and of course orion, hence why I would like to have a wide field EP or two in the arsenal.. so to speak.  I also already have an Exsci 24mm 68deg and 32mm TV plossl for wider, low mag viewing (all my astronomik and baader filters are 1.25" which is why i'm not interested in 2" EP's)

@alan potts I will be content with circa 72deg if I can observe comfortably.. I started to get to the point I felt claustrophobic trying to get my eye in as close as possible to see the full 82deg (if that makes sense) I read your 10mm review, liked it very much.

@Piero Is eyeplacement that tricky, thought that was the lower FL delos only..? I had that issue with some Xcell-Lx EP's just couldn't get on with them.. the SLV's just work for me in all ways (if anything im looking for two wider fields to complement them, in intermediate Fl that the SLV's/I don't currently own/don't have, hence the circa 18mm and 10mm)

Thanks for the response so far..

Ta

Fozzie

[alan potts]

I personally found all of the them very easy to observe with Fozzie, the sliding eye-gaurd is by far the best system I have come across, easy to adjust so things are just right then lock in place. I have to say without doing this you tend to get blackouts when you first use them, but once they are set it is simple. I shouldn't think it is didfferent from person to person but then that's only guessing. You do of course have a similar sort of system on the Pentax but that is with a thread and you twist it to the required height.

The only downside of all TeleVue eyepieces is the cost of owning them, they are not free with Cornflakes sadly. I think though if you were able to pick up the F/L secondhand that you would like, it would not be long before you wanted another, Oh that's 2 downsides to TeleVue 

[Piero]

41 minutes ago, Fozzie said:

@Piero Is eyeplacement that tricky, thought that was the lower FL delos only..? I had that issue with some Xcell-Lx EP's just couldn't get on with them.. the SLV's just work for me in all ways (if anything im looking for two wider fields to complement them, in intermediate Fl that the SLV's/I don't currently own/don't have, hence the circa 18mm and 10mm)

I cannot compare it with the Xcell as I have never seen through one. First of all eye placement is not very tricky and to me it just needs some practice. I would not call it straightforward on the Sun, but also here it is something which can be learnt. What is required is that you adjust the exact distance between the scrolling eye-guard of the Delos and your eye. Then you fix it and forget about.

To me the SLV's are easier in terms of eye placement, but I believe this has more to do with the fact that the lens is smaller than that one in the Delos. Therefore, it is fairly obvious to figure out where to place the eye. Instead the large lense of the delos confused me in the beginning as I thought I could look through them from many angles. When I realised that it did not work like that (you have blackouts if you do so), but instead started to look at the centre and maintain my eye and head positions in place, the problem was solved. This is due to learning, not to the eyepiece though. 

Of course experienced people don't have this problem. This because, as experts, they know exactly where to put their eye and at what distance. On CN, I even read that some expert people just leave the scrolling eye-guard down even if they don't wear glasses. It's a bit like when you learn to drive a car: the first time you struggle balancing the right acceleration, while after a bit this becomes straightforward and you might even wonder one day what there is to learn about it!  

p.s. learning how to drive a car is far more difficult than learning how to use a Delos! 

 

hope this helps, 

Piero

[jkwhinfrey]

9 minutes ago, Piero said:

... First of all eye placement is not very tricky and to me it just needs some practice. I would not call it straightforward on the Sun...

Interesting point. I've noticed that when using my wide fields in bright conditions – in my case on the Moon at dusk – they can be infuriating with blackouts and kidney beaning. Once the skies are dark the problem disappears. I think it might have something to do with the dilation of your pupil: small in daylight and generally larger at night?

James

[John]

I've read a few reports some find that eye placement is a little more tricky with the Delos than it is with the Pentax XW. I've not compared the two myself but this seems to be the only area where they differ and even then I suspect the difference is small and goes away quite quickly with a little experience.

 

[YKSE]

24 minutes ago, jkwhinfrey said:

Interesting point. I've noticed that when using my wide fields in bright conditions – in my case on the Moon at dusk – they can be infuriating with blackouts and kidney beaning. Once the skies are dark the problem disappears. I think it might have something to do with the dilation of your pupil: small in daylight and generally larger at night?

James

If you read the Televue plossl patent carefully, you might have been better prepared.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

3 hours ago, John said:

I've read a few reports some find that eye placement is a little more tricky with the Delos than it is with the Pentax XW. I've not compared the two myself but this seems to be the only area where they differ and even then I suspect the difference is small and goes away quite quickly with a little experience.

 

I tend to agree with that, the XWs are a bit more comfortable than both my Delos EPs in terms of eye placement. The Delos are fine, but the XWs have an edge

[Fozzie]

So.. In light of the 4 EP’S  that have gone 4.7mm, 11mm, 14mm & 18mm what 2 Delos or XW would you replace with..? (Again to be used with a 2x FE)

[jkwhinfrey]

With absolutely no experience of those eyepieces, I think that 10mm and 14mm give a nice range of magnification in your large scopes - 5 and 7 with the telextender, 10 and 14 without. 

Better exit pupil in the 200P than the Starwave, but that's hard to avoid given the very different focal ratios. You'll know how you get on with the 5mm SLV in that scope I guess.

Would the Delos be better than the XW in the 14mm I wonder?

James

[Tim]

Well I know next to nothing about eyepieces, but I do have the 10mm Delos, and find it extremely comfortable to use with the adjustable and long eye relief.

[jetstream]

Delos. Excellent eyepieces, from planetary/lunar to deep sky. I love Televues latest eyepiece coatings... this is an Ethos, but the Delos look very similar...

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

10 hours ago, jkwhinfrey said:

With absolutely no experience of those eyepieces, I think that 10mm and 14mm give a nice range of magnification in your large scopes - 5 and 7 with the telextender, 10 and 14 without. 

Better exit pupil in the 200P than the Starwave, but that's hard to avoid given the very different focal ratios. You'll know how you get on with the 5mm SLV in that scope I guess.

Would the Delos be better than the XW in the 14mm I wonder?

James

The XW14 apparently has some (intentional) field curvature to match the spotting scopes they were designed for. The Delos 14mm hasn't. I have the Delos 14mm and it is very good indeed.