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FRAC upgrade?


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Hi all, :hello:

i currently have a Evostar 90mm blue tube refractor, this is the 1st frac i have owned,(bought from SGL member :happy3:)  in the relatively short time i have owned and used it i have been rather pleased with the results i have had, nice bright and crisp views on both stars and planets, the stars, especially to me just seem to pop out at you on a black velvety background, :icon_biggrin:
now these views and looking through the "Show us your frac thread" have left me wanting more so to speak, so now i have this URGE to upgrade to something better (maybe even bigger ) :eek:
The question is - should i supress this urge or run with it :icon_eek:
do i go something for visual or something to compliment my 130P-DS (can stick my camera on?) :dontknow:

Thoughts anyone :happy11:

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Hi, that show us your frac thread has no doubt caused a few to hunger after an upgrade.. I mean who wouldn't want a tak 100dl, I know I do...

the evo90 is a great starter frac, and great for grab n go too, had some great nights with on..

i think, with your budget you've got a few options, larger aperture frac or better optics.. Or a mix of the two second hand..

id id think about the tal100rs on the sale section for a nice achromatic upgrade to the evo90.. Saving a lot of pennies too!

theres the Altair starwave that's £370 new and is a nice scope but long so needs a good mount or you could look out for a second hand 100ed should be mid £325-£375 and will be very good..

 

any ideas what what picks your fancy?

 

ta

fozzie

 

 

 

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In one sense you have a problem with your Skymax 127 - what I mean is any refractor you get for £300-£400 is unlikely to out perform it.

If I'd not seen the mak in your signature (shall I pretend I haven't ?) I'd have recommended the ED100 as well.

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I can't see his signature on my mobile for some reason. ..

If you have a Mak 127 point taken, you could consider a used Bresser AR152 F8, but its heavy to mount. Another option to go deeper would be an 8" Dob, but I was thinking from your first post you wanted to stay with Fracs?

Dave

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15 minutes ago, John said:

In one sense you have a problem with your Skymax 127 - what I mean is any refractor you get for £300-£400 is unlikely to out perform it.

So the Mak 127 is that good :happy11: see i have only had that out once since i got it, not really looked through it :eek: yet, i was messing around with ASI120mm trying to get it focused on Jupiter, So maybe not a problem in one sense :happy3: as that can be used for the visual and maybe look at something for imaging :happy11:.

 

6 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

If you have a Mak 127 point taken, you could consider a used Bresser AR152 F8, but its heavy to mount. Another option to go deeper would be an 8" Dob, but I was thinking from your first post you wanted to stay with Fracs?

I did look at Bresser AR152 very nice to look at, i have HEQ5 pier mounted would that be ok? Dob route, not sure really?

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1 hour ago, JemC said:


do i go something for visual or something to compliment my 130P-DS (can stick my camera on?) :dontknow:

Thoughts anyone :happy11:

If you were leaning towards imaging I'd suggest something like the Altair Lightwave ED72 f/6. This would compliment your 130pds for imaging by giving a wider field of view @ 432mm focal length, but would still be fast for imaging at F/6.

http://www.altairastro.com/lightwave-72mm-f6-ed-refractor-with-dual-speed-r-p-focuser-alu-case.html

It would also compliment your Mak by giving a much wider FOV for visual in a very potable travel friendly package.

If looking at the visual side of things, which objects do you most enjoy observing before I make any suggestion there?

Having said this, the thing that the Mak most noticeably doesn't do is DSO's, in which case as Dave said, a 6" refractor or 8" Dob.  

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9 minutes ago, Chris Lock said:

If looking at the visual side of things, which objects do you most enjoy observing before I make any suggestion there?

Fair point Chris

as it currently stands, i have only ever seen moon/planets through any scope? which i have enjoyed, am i safe in saying that the Mak will cover that side of things :happy11:

 never found any DSO stuff other than Orion so can't really say i enjoy that side of it visually just yet, but i would imagine a pretty big aperture would be required for the deep stuff?

i suppose really i want my cake and to eat it :happy3:

130P-DS for the imaging side,

something for while the camera is doing it's stuff

 

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6 minutes ago, John said:

I guess a naughty suggestion would be to let the 127mm mak-cassegrain go, add the proceeds to your budget and then try and find a nice used ED120 Pro refractor :evil4:

that thought had crossed my mind :icon_biggrin:

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2 minutes ago, JemC said:

Fair point Chris

as it currently stands, i have only ever seen moon/planets through any scope? which i have enjoyed, am i safe in saying that the Mak will cover that side of things :happy11:

 never found any DSO stuff other than Orion so can't really say i enjoy that side of it visually just yet, but i would imagine a pretty big aperture would be required for the deep stuff?

i suppose really i want my cake and to eat it :happy3:

130P-DS for the imaging side,

something for while the camera is doing it's stuff

 

I guessing you have the 130pds on the HEQ5 pro for imaging which will leave you the EQ3 for visual whilst the camera is clicking away. In which case I think your 127mm Mak is a good match for the EQ3, and having played with a 127Mak I can say it wowed me on the Moon and the planets for it's size. It gave really crisp and contrasty views, just needed a good hour to cool down before it really kicked bottom.

An 8" dob for 280 odd quid new would open up the door to DSO's, and no worries about the mount. This would be a very sensible choice, albeit you did mention that you liked the stars and velvety black background shown by refractors, and I can really relate to this. Your Mak won't be bad on stars but you do tend to get a bit of flarring I find, and they arn't quite as tight, and the FOV is narrow. 

Maybe a good old ED80 would be in order? a bit more aperture than the ED72 but still really portable with razor sharp contrasty wide views to complement the Mak. You could also sometimes use it to image with whilst you use 130pds or Mak for visual.

How do YOU find the Evo 90mm compared to the 127 Mak? 

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2 minutes ago, Chris Lock said:

How do YOU find the Evo 90mm compared to the 127 Mak? 

from an aesthetics point of view, the Mak is a winner to me as i like the compact design of it, i like how it feels and looks so solid and it's prettier to look at :icon_biggrin: BUT from an observing point :icon_sad: sadly i have yet to try this side of it so can't really make a judgement on that just yet, 

 

11 minutes ago, Chris Lock said:

Maybe a good old ED80 would be in order

So this would give me similar views as the 90 and is suitable for imaging :happy7:happy days,

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You already have a very good imaging scope 130p ds the 127 mak is a very good planet and lunar scope, the natural path would be a dob for dso viewing depending on your light pollution, your evo can do a bit of white light solar, i would say if you want a frac then best go with 100ed and sell the 90 evo

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9 hours ago, nightfisher said:

You already have a very good imaging scope 130p ds the 127 mak is a very good planet and lunar scope, the natural path would be a dob for dso viewing depending on your light pollution, your evo can do a bit of white light solar, i would say if you want a frac then best go with 100ed and sell the 90 evo

Hi Jules

yeah the 130P-DS will not be going anywhere, that i am keeping,:icon_biggrin:

the Evo 90 will eventually go, i know that there is better out there, as for the Mak I'm just going to have to wait until i have actually tried it before i can pass judgment on it :icon_biggrin:

DOB, i am tempted but there is just an air of doubt there concerning them...and i don't know why :dontknow:

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20 hours ago, Chris Lock said:

How do YOU find the Evo 90mm compared to the 127 Mak? 

Hi Chris

Right, i have had 10 minute window on the moon earlier, and i have just spent the last half hour on Jupiter using the Seben i got from yourself :icon_biggrin: 

Please bear in mind this is the first real look i have had through the Mak, so compared to the Evo i think the Mak wins outright on Lunar/Planetary the views are stunning :happy7: 
but when it comes to looking at some of the other things up there to me the Evo outshines the Mak :icon_sad: but like i said this is just my initial impression after 40 mins

so as it stands,
i have the 130P-DS for the imaging
i have the Mak for moon/planets

i just now need to do some more thinking as to do i go bigger frac or do i go Dob

He! He!  isn't Astronomy fun :happy7:

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On 3/13/2016 at 20:40, JemC said:

 

i just now need to do some more thinking as to do i go bigger frac or do i go Dob

 

Trouble with achromat refractors is that the chromatic aberration goes up rapidly with aperture and the only fix is to make them longer which means bigger, heavier, more difficult to mount and of course expensive. Apochromats don't have most of those problems but they take expensive to a whole new level! A big apo can definitely be a do-anything telescope but it doesn't make economic sense to the vast majority of people. A common low cost but high performance solution is to have a Mak for the moon and planets and something like an 8" Dob for wider deeper stuff. If space is an issue, perhaps one of those collapsable Dobs that store down to about the size of a pedal bin?

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It is a dilemma. And rather disappointing how the prices compound as you look at bigger and bigger telescopes in the ED classes.

I decided to stay right where I am, and to focus on better cameras. When I decided on my current (and only) telescope, I knew I wanted to go after Nebulae. So I focused (no pun intended) on the best I could do for my (limited) investment toward the photographic end of Astronomy. So I chose to get an ED Triple apochromatic, and because I was going that far anyway, a Carbon Fiber tube for focusing stability.

But regardless of brands, the prices climb very steeply as the aperture increases with apochromatic's. I jumped in at $1000 USD, but the next step up at the time leaped almost 1.5 times that figure. Or around $2,700 USD. Quite shocking the increase. Quite disappointing the aperture size increase. IIRC, it was a 102mm or maybe bigger, but not much.

I'm not disappointed in my choice of my telescope, it does deliver to me Nebula I never imagined existed, and clearly. And I've gone deeper and deeper into the electronically assisted astronomy (EAA), as I knew I would. What can I say, I love equipment and making things work. Maybe I'm a Borg.

Why a Refractor telescope? In a nutshell, simplicity. Less to go wrong, less 'tweaking', less bulk (arguably) are some of my reasoning's to steer my choice. Call me Galilean.

So if you are liking your refractor, and want to take a trip down that path, try out a triple sometime. The light focuses right into your eyepiece and eye without anything bobbing it around like a reflector type does. I would caution you that a triple APO might lead you down the garden path into Astrophotography... it's a slippery slope. :happy8:

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One reason that ED doublet and apochromatic refractors get expensive quickly as the aperture increases is that the ED glass that is used for one or sometimes more of the lens elements is much more expensive than the glass used in a conventional achromat. In 2014 the Ohara FPL-53 glass that is used for one of the elements of many ED doublet refractors was nearly 20x as expensive as the less exotic crown or flint glass types used in an achromat.

 

 

 

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On 3/13/2016 at 20:40, JemC said:

Hi Chris

Right, i have had 10 minute window on the moon earlier, and i have just spent the last half hour on Jupiter using the Seben i got from yourself :icon_biggrin: 

Please bear in mind this is the first real look i have had through the Mak, so compared to the Evo i think the Mak wins outright on Lunar/Planetary the views are stunning :happy7: 
but when it comes to looking at some of the other things up there to me the Evo outshines the Mak :icon_sad: but like i said this is just my initial impression after 40 mins

so as it stands,
i have the 130P-DS for the imaging
i have the Mak for moon/planets

i just now need to do some more thinking as to do i go bigger frac or do i go Dob

He! He!  isn't Astronomy fun :happy7:

I think a Dob would make sense here so you could image and do visual at the same time. To do this with a big frac you would need to upgrade your second mount, no need with a Dob. 

If you're still not keen on the Dob idea, maybe get a smaller quality wide field ED refractor. It won't go as deep as a Dob pound for pound but the quality of the view would be very nice, plus wide views to compliment the Mak's narrow planet killer views.

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