Messier Galaxies in Leo

[Gordon73]

Hi All, bit of advice. After recently buying a Skywatcher 130, i decided to have a crack at the Messier Galaxies in Leo. Armed with detailed star charts, i think i managed to observe them all. (including an additional NGC) But i can only manage to see them as "foggy stars" is this normal or is my eyesight going? Any insight would be appreciated.

[ngwillym]

Foggy stars sounds as pretty good description.

[Gordon73]

4 minutes ago, ngwillym said:

Foggy stars sounds as pretty good description.

Thats what the M105 group looked like. M65 and 66 showed tiny swirls around them. 

[kev100]

Hi Gordon73, You could try inputting your scope's details (and eyepiece specs) into Stellarium. That'll give you a reasonable suggestion as to what you can expect to see.

[alacant]

Hi.

I don't think it's your eyesight. I was really disappointed when I saw my first galaxies. To see any detail beyond the foggy stars you describe so aptly, you need to view using a big telescope, or to photograph them. Unless you're gonna throw loadsa money at either of those methods you're not gonna seem much more.  There is still a lot of pleasure to be had by ticking them off. Especially if you star-hop. 

Cheers

[Gordon73]

Thanks all. I wasnt particularly disappointed. Was nice just to see them. I guess im just seeing the bright core? Just checking that im seeing them as i should. I have no complaints about the scope. Wish i coukd get bigger one but with 2 little ones, that wont happen! Thanks again for your replies. Although i have to say M105's companion, NGC 3384, was a lot brighter than expected.

[andrew63]

That's pretty much par for the course, smudges - and these are some of the brightest !  This sketch from a dark sky with a 8" gives some idea of what you saw.   Still amazing when you consider what you're looking at.

http://www.deepskywatch.com/Astrosketches/m65-m66-sketch.html

 

 

andrew

[Gordon73]

Thats a good sketch. So i know im seeing things properly. I was pleasantly surprised with the M65 group, although i couldnt pick out the NGC member. 

[Gordon73]

And i do always have in mind what it is im looking at. Light from stars over 30 million light years distant. Incredible.

[LukeSkywatcher]

Galaxies will almost always just appear as faint bright patches of grey/white light against the darker background sky. The view improves if you observe from a truly dark location that has zero light pollution.  For me, the joy of observing galaxies isnt the actual view but how big they are and how far away they are (no Fr. Ted vid clips please). The one galaxy i have seen with a 130mm scope which impressed me was the "Black Eye Galaxy". Even with a 130mm scope and viewing it from outside of my old house where there were 2 street lights to contend with,it looked amazing. I dont know how much of what i saw was actual viewing or how much was imagination. What i know i did see, was the dark area at the bottom of the galaxy (its a very thick dust lane)......which gives it its appearance and name. It was quite clear.

I also do like observing the Leo trio.

 

[ngwillym]

This

http://www.pbase.com/mike73/messier_sketches

might also give you an idea of what to expect to see

[Gordon73]

4 hours ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

Thanks for that,yes Galaxies will almost always just appear as faint bright patches of grey/white light against the darker background sky. The view improves if you observe from a truly dark location that has zero light pollution.  For me, the joy of observing galaxies isnt the actual view but how big they are and how far away they are (no Fr. Ted vid clips please). The one galaxy i have seen with a 130mm scope which impressed me was the "Black Eye Galaxy". Even with a 130mm scope and viewing it from outside of my old house where there were 2 street lights to contend with,it looked amazing. I dont know how much of what i saw was actual viewing or how much was imagination. What i know i did see, was the dark area at the bottom of the galaxy (its a very thick dust lane)......which gives it its appearance and name. It was quite clear.

I also do like observing the Leo trio.

 

 

4 hours ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

Galaxies will almost always just appear as faint bright patches of grey/white light against the darker background sky. The view improves if you observe from a truly dark location that has zero light pollution.  For me, the joy of observing galaxies isnt the actual view but how big they are and how far away they are (no Fr. Ted vid clips please). The one galaxy i have seen with a 130mm scope which impressed me was the "Black Eye Galaxy". Even with a 130mm scope and viewing it from outside of my old house where there were 2 street lights to contend with,it looked amazing. I dont know how much of what i saw was actual viewing or how much was imagination. What i know i did see, was the dark area at the bottom of the galaxy (its a very thick dust lane)......which gives it its appearance and name. It was quite clear.

I also do like observing the Leo trio.

 

Thanks for that, yes M64 is on my "to see" list. I particularly liked M66 as you could tell it was galactic in nature.

[Gordon73]

1 hour ago, ngwillym said:

This

http://www.pbase.com/mike73/messier_sketches

might also give you an idea of what to expect to see

Thank you, anything else other than a "foggy star" from here on will be a bonus.

[Size9Hex]

On 08/03/2016 at 13:09, Gordon73 said:

Thats what the M105 group looked like. M65 and 66 showed tiny swirls around them. 

Hi Gordon, that sounds like a good effort in my limited experience, and I think to detect any detail at all is commendable! I've read a few times that DSOs are just fuzzy blobs, which I find is pessimistic, but equally the detail that you can see is often only barely in reach. A few things can help: Dark skies boost the contrast. Patience at the eyepiece brings out detail that only appears fleetingly. Gaining practice with faint targets trains your brain to spot subtleties. Experimenting with any different eyepieces you have can bring out more detail as you juggle making the details big enough to see but not so faint that they disappear. The main thing is to just enjoy it though!

[Dave In Vermont]

As Stellarium has been suggested to help you find and understand how things will be out there, I'll second the suggestion. Stellarium is a wonderful software-program that can be set to show you what you'll see with your scope and eyepieces. It will show you many things that you can set it to show you. Galaxies, nebulae, stars, quasars, clusters - even artificial satellites. Similar software can easily cost £200. Stellarium is completely free. And it's updated frequently with new abilities and types of objects.

So here's my Cut & Paste:

On this link is the main page for downloading Stellarium. Choose which version is correct for your computer. Here you go:

http://www.stellarium.org/
 
As for instructions, the most current one's are posted in Wiki due to there being new features & functions being created almost daily. There is also a Pdf. that's almost up-to-date, absolutely enough 'up-to-date' in all needed ways. Here's the Wiki-Link:
 
http://www.stellarium.org/wiki/index.php/Stellarium_User_Guide
 
And the Pdf. is here:
 
http://barry.sarcasmogerdes.com/stellarium/stellarium_user_guide-new.pdf

I'll leave you with a screenshot of mine - be aware my copy is set-up to advanced levels. Yours will be very simple - until you tell it what to give you.

Click on image for full-size.

Enjoy!

Dave

[swamp thing]

12 hours ago, Size9Hex said:

Hi Gordon, that sounds like a good effort in my limited experience, and I think to detect any detail at all is commendable! I've read a few times that DSOs are just fuzzy blobs, which I find is pessimistic,

I guess it depends what you mean by fuzzy blobs. Not sure how I'd describe even an astro image of a galaxy or a nebula either except as a kinda fuzzy blob  
 

[Size9Hex]

4 hours ago, swamp thing said:

I guess it depends what you mean by fuzzy blobs. Not sure how I'd describe even an astro image of a galaxy or a nebula either except as a kinda fuzzy blob  
 

That's a fair question :-)

Two examples come to mind. When I saw M81 (with binos), and a faint comet PANSTARRS (X1?) (10 inch) the only thing I could I detect at all was the location of the object. This was very early in the hobby and I guess they set a low benchmark! With my level of experience, and my kit, on the night in question, that's was absolutely no improvement to be had beyond that. My earliest notes are full of grey blobs though :-)

If I manage to get something of the shape, orientation, distribution of brightness, texture, or really anything beyond just confirming the location, then to me the target takes on some personality/identity, and isn't just a fuzzy blob anymore. I appreciate on the spectrum of grey blob to complete sensory overload, they're still near the low end though! :-)

[pipnina]

Some galaxies display mottling(m82), others will show spiral structure (M33 under pristine skies) and some will show dust lanes (M31 under dark skies).

As far as detail goes, I find the bigger nebulae like M42, NGC 2024, Veil et al are the best objects. Although detail in galaxies like M51, M82 or M104 would be stunning!

[Gordon73]

On 09/03/2016 at 19:35, Size9Hex said:

Hi Gordon, that sounds like a good effort in my limited experience, and I think to detect any detail at all is commendable! I've read a few times that DSOs are just fuzzy blobs, which I find is pessimistic, but equally the detail that you can see is often only barely in reach. A few things can help: Dark skies boost the contrast. Patience at the eyepiece brings out detail that only appears fleetingly. Gaining practice with faint targets trains your brain to spot subtleties. Experimenting with any different eyepieces you have can bring out more detail as you juggle making the details big enough to see but not so faint that they disappear. The main thing is to just enjoy it though!

Yes i must admit, i was stunned by the view. It was a very transparent night. The faintest star i picked up was 13.06. Only a quarter of a mag off its absolute limit! There were definitely wisps that curled around the generally fuzzy star. I use an eyepatch about 30-40 mins beforehand and yes, the longer you watch, the more you see. I came a dab hand at averted vision while observing in a heavily light polluted city with a 70mm refractor, when i first got into it. Thanks for your advice and yes i really do just enjoy it

[Gordon73]

On 09/03/2016 at 23:52, Dave In Vermont said:

As Stellarium has been suggested to help you find and understand how things will be out there, I'll second the suggestion. Stellarium is a wonderful software-program that can be set to show you what you'll see with your scope and eyepieces. It will show you many things that you can set it to show you. Galaxies, nebulae, stars, quasars, clusters - even artificial satellites. Similar software can easily cost £200. Stellarium is completely free. And it's updated frequently with new abilities and types of objects.

So here's my Cut & Paste:

On this link is the main page for downloading Stellarium. Choose which version is correct for your computer. Here you go:

http://www.stellarium.org/
 
As for instructions, the most current one's are posted in Wiki due to there being new features & functions being created almost daily. There is also a Pdf. that's almost up-to-date, absolutely enough 'up-to-date' in all needed ways. Here's the Wiki-Link:
 
http://www.stellarium.org/wiki/index.php/Stellarium_User_Guide
 
And the Pdf. is here:
 
http://barry.sarcasmogerdes.com/stellarium/stellarium_user_guide-new.pdf

I'll leave you with a screenshot of mine - be aware my copy is set-up to advanced levels. Yours will be very simple - until you tell it what to give you.

Click on image for full-size.

Enjoy!

Dave

Thanks for the heads up Dave but a few years ago, i got a copy of starrynight which has never let me down

[Gordon73]

On 10/03/2016 at 08:39, swamp thing said:

I guess it depends what you mean by fuzzy blobs. Not sure how I'd describe even an astro image of a galaxy or a nebula either except as a kinda fuzzy blob  
 

i guess it is a bit pessimistic, but with the nature of galaxies and the limits of a 5" scope i guess that what they are.