New to forum and to astrophotography

[Yooster]

Hi All

I've been interested in getting into astrophotography for a couple of years now, and have spent that time reading up as much as I can before taking the plunge and getting my first equipment. None of my friends or anyone I know is into it so was looking around for a good online community and stumbled across this place which seems a good community to join!

I think I understand the basic principles of imaging and the processes involved and have an initial good idea of what equipment I want to start with, but just looking for some advice really as to whether I'm on the right track and any further suggestions before I go out and spend my hard earned money! So far the only experience I have had is some basic wide field/nightscape and star trail shots with (in astronomical terms) a pretty simple camera, but now looking to progress with some better equipment to take the next step. I'm very interested in eventually progressing towards photographing DSO's, nebulas, messiers etc - not so interested in lunar or planetary imaging. I know I need to be starting with the basics and would enjoy some wide field shots to start with, and have done quite a lot of research on the processing side of it and can't wait to get started.

I would appreciate some advise/opinions on the following, I have a pretty modest budget of around £2000 to start out with, and would like initially to use a DSLR & lens, some form of tracking mount and a decent tripod. I don't have a garden and live in a city in Essex, so would need to be travelling out a bit so I don't want a setup that is too weighty or involves taking a PC out too (at least, not to start with!). 

DSLR Camera - this I just can't decide on. I contemplated getting a used one to save money but then I'm too concerned about getting a camera thats been hammered or has dead pixels, so I want to spend around £1000-£1200 ish on a new DSLR. I've always had a preference for Canon but there are a few options around my budget and have read tonnes of reviews for AP use but still can't decide. I've been looking at the slightly older 6d which seems to get very good AP reviews, does having a full frame sensor really make the difference for AP, when I could get a 7D Mark II for a similar price? Or should I get something slightly cheaper like a 70d and use the difference towards a better lens? I'm not against getting it modified for ha sensitivity but would be nice to have a camera to use for non AP purposes, can I still get pleasing results without it being modified?

Camera Lens - The bottom line here, is that I don't really have the money for a good, fast lens just now. I still want to be able to try some nebula/messier imaging if possible. I gather a fixed lense would be better but would something like a 70-300mm F/4.0-5.6 lens (even if I pick one up used) be good enough to get started?

Tracking - to start with, I quite like the look of an Astrotrac, for its mobility and less cost than something like an HEQ5 with GoTo, and seems to get good reviews amongst the cheaper trackers. Will this give me good enough results on its own, without any autoguider, assuming when its aligned correctly and using stacking?

Anyways I'm sure this type of thread comes up all the time, but would appreciate any advice and opinions out there and how best to spend my budget at this stage. 

 

 

 

[Dr_Ju_ju]

Hi welcome to the Lounge,

before spending any big money, buy a copy of Making Every Photon Count http://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html, read it a few times...

[JemC]

Hi Yooster and welcome to SGL.

I can't really give you much as I don't feel I am experienced enough in AP yet, however I will say +1 for making every photon count it's pretty much considered the AP bible

Be aware that AP can strip you of your money quicker than a shoal of piranha can strip flesh from it's prey  but it's a nicer experience!

you could also check out http://cheapastrophotography.vpweb.co.uk/default.html  for DSLR's, he is quite good and reasonable price wise,

As far as the AstroTrac is concerned it does what it says on the tin and is capable of producing some excellent images, have a quick search on the forum,

I'm sure other members with more experience will be along to help you spend your money soon

Regards
James

[swag72]

Definitely get hold of the book ..... read it once, twice and thrice and then decide what you need and why ..... if you don't understand what you need then read it again!!

My first question with the DSLR is whether you are planning on using it exclusively for astro? The smaller Canon's do very well and if you get it modded (the UV filter is removed) then that really helps in astro work. If you take a look at the work of StuartJPP as he uses an Astrotrac and camera lens and gets some fantastic results. I would think that something like the Astrotrac will give you the most portable setup if you don't have a garden. 

[Waldemar]

A modified DSLR can very well be used for daylight photography, when using an UV/IR clip-in filter.
If you are going for a full frame sensor, like you said, realize that you will need a telescope that can produce a huge flat field so... very expensive! and a lot trickier then a smaller sensor.
Maybe an APS-c size camera would give you more satisfying results to start with and at least less headaches and certainly a lot cheaper to start with.

just my 2c.
Waldemar

[laudropb]

Hello and a warm welcome to the SGL. I will let our AP experts deal with your question.

[PeterCPC]

Hello and welcome. APS-C size sensor Canon with live view, modded if you can.

Peter

[happy-kat]

There are members using the skywatcher star adventurer to image using a dslr and lens. 

[Yooster]

Thanks all for the replies so far. I will definitely get the book and have a read before plunging in. 

Waldemar thanks for the comments re: full frame sensor DSLR and the associated costs of the requited lenses or telescopes to get decent results (I want to start with lenses first), so in this respect I can probably rule out the 6D as I really don't have the money for expensive lenses just yet.

Looking at what cameras people use and the results you can get maybe I'm better off spending a little less on the DSLR and a little more on a lens (or other things). Still can't make my mind up between DSLR models available in my price range, I think I've narrowed it down on a cost scale to 1200d, 750d, or a 70d. I've read so many reviews on these cameras for AP but still undecided!

The more I think about it, the more it would play on my mind as to how much better the images could be if I had it astro modified, so I think this is a must, but don't want to end up with a camera that's bricked for anything else other than AP. I can live with needing to use filters or adjusting white balance settings for normal use, I have been reading about Baader mods that I understand would mean I could still use the camera for normal day work?

Looking forward to yet another expensive hobby...why can't I just take up crochet or something?

[brantuk]

I wouldn't worry about going for a cheaper s/h camera fully mod'ed for astro. A 1200D will cost around £150-£200 quid and you can always sell it on and get most of your money back. And it will give you great results and get you going on astro photography straight away. Keep daytime photography separate and use a different camera - it'll make the astro side much more manageable than a dual purpose camera.

The astrotac is great - does what it says on the tin - but it is limiting if you eventually want to go for detailed dso's. The problem is gonna be upgradability and expense. Imho it would be best to go for an HEQ5 now (and skip the astrotrac) for future proofing. It's highly portable and provides the accuracy you'll need later to add a small scope and guiding, whilst giving camera/lens only possibilities immediately.

If you eventually get into AP big time, then you can usually get around 2/3rds of your money back selling on current gear, and put the proceeds towards a larger mount/scope/guiding combo. Hth

(you can always crochet whilst waiting for the subs to roll in lol)

 

 

 

 

[Yooster]

Point taken regarding the mount, brantuk.

I appreciate I will be limited in some respects by using an Astrotrac if/when I really get into AP, but it appealed to me for its size and weight, since I live in a light polluted city with no garden imaging to me will mean either driving out of the city or (what I am thinking) is combine with my other hobby of Carp fishing - which generally consists of three or four nights out in the wilderness (often with dark star filled skies), generally not catching any fish and with nothing else to do at night apart from sleep. In this scenario I already take a ridiculous amount of fishing gear and adding another 20-25kg and size of mount will be a problem for me. I also like the idea of taking an Astrotrac away on holiday with me. I'd love something like an HEQ5 with GoTo if I had a garden, but it just feels a bit impracticle for me starting out just now. 

That said, if I was going to spend, say £500 on an Astrotrac with polarscope (assuming I will at first use my existing tripod, ball head and geared head), would my money be better spent on something else that will give me a chance of getting better images whilst starting out, until I upgrade to something else?  What about an EQ3 Pro with Goto, which I could get for less than the Astrotrac. Still larger and heavier, but i could live with that? I did read a review that says its good for wide field AP, does that mean its no good for DSOs?  Or what about the star adventurer as happy-kat mentions?

Stupid newbie question here, but if I got an EQ3 Pro (or an HEQ5 Pro come to think of it), (a) can it be used with a DSLR and (b) can it be used to track the stars but not necessarily be auto-guided with a PC? (accepting that auto-guiding would be better)

[JemC]

23 minutes ago, Yooster said:

Stupid newbie question here, but if I got an EQ3 Pro (or an HEQ5 Pro come to think of it), (a) can it be used with a DSLR and (b) can it be used to track the stars but not necessarily be auto-guided with a PC? (accepting that auto-guiding would be better)

As is quite often stated on here, There are no stupid questions,

with regards your question the answer is Yes and yes. the pro versions have tracking motors which enable you to track the movement of the stars without guiding/pc hook up
 

Regards
James

[Yooster]

Have since read through a lot of other posts on this forum and there seems to be a consensus that the EQ3 is not a very good mount for AP!

[brantuk]

Ahhh yes I see - with all the fishing gear you'll be looking for something very light and an Astrotrac fits the bill nicely. Yes it will be good for wide field exposures using a camera and lens. Maybe that's the better way to start and a great alternative to any of the lesser alluminium eq mounts. So long as you set your expectations accordingly and don't expect anything like the detail and variety of dso images seen on the forum.

You'll need a scope on a good solid accurate mount with guiding to get the same as those - check the gear specs that accompany photos in the imaging section. You can use any EQ mount to take dso images with a scope - but the quality of your images will always be consistent with the quality of the mount. For serious imaging the very minimum is generally recognised as HEQ5 Pro because it can track with the required level of accuracy using a relatively light scope and a guiding solution. But I understand your criteria a bit better now.

Have a good look at the images attainable with camera and lens in the imaging section - there's plenty using Astrotracs - if that's the kind of imaging you aspire to then you'll be fine. And weight/size wise it will compliment the fishing gear very nicely. Hth

 

[Yooster]

Thanks brantuk

I'm quite interested at the start in getting some wide field exposures and playing around with the exposure variables, stacking, processing etc, but I can see myself quickly wanting to get into galaxy and nebular imaging. I'd love to be able to produce some images of M31, Orion Nebula etc and have seen some great examples of what is possible using just a DSLR and lens and mount. I'm amazed by some of the images that can be achieved using just an Astrotrac, whilst I appreciate that a lot of these rely on very accurate polar alignment, some very expensive lenses, and quite a lot of experience in AP. StuartJPP's images using an astrotac are truly inspiring but I guess for the cost of a 500mm F4/L lens I may as well look at getting a scope and decent guided mount. 

I guess I'm trying to figure out what the range (or limit) of objects that I could image just with a DSLR, a 300mm lense (for example) and an astrotrac (or similar tracking mount). If I knew I'd be limited to only wide field/milky way type shots I probably would skip that initial setup in favour of something better, and just accept AP will involve a more bulkier setup to shift around.

I'll wait for the recommended book to arrive and have a good read through before making my decision.

I can very much see this hobby being like fishing, in that there's always something else or something better that you want to buy! (and endless frustrating nights out in the cold!)

Thanks for your help. Hopefully in the near future I can be posting my first efforts!

[Scott]

Bit late to the party here . I own an astrotrac and also an neq6. I think the AT is a great bit of kit but after one attempt at imaging with a scope, I decided that (and I stress this next bit) FOR ME it will only ever get used with a camera/lens combo. even then it's usually short fl lens for widefield milkyway or constellation imaging. There are far more experienced owners than me getting great results with longer focal length lenses so I'm not saying it can't be done. Just not by me.

 Be very aware when making a decision that the AT is only ever going to be as good as the tripod/wedge/etc that you mount it on. Don't get me wrong, I like it a lot but if I had to choose between my two mounts,the neq6 would win every time (I don't ever image too far from my car so weight isn't an issue  ).

Many times I've read on this (and other) forums that when choosing a set-up, the most important aspects are Mount,Camera and scope....in that order. I realise that weight/bulk is an issue, But for me, with a £2000 budget and dso imaging in mind, I'd find it hard to look past http://www.firstlightoptics.com/pro-series/skywatcher-evostar-80ed-pro-heq5-pro.html and a canon 1100d. You'll have plenty left over for a http://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-star-adventurer/skywatcher-star-adventurer-astronomy-bundle.html when you just can't hump that HEQ5 with you.

I just love spending other peoples money