Is this really what a 10inch dobs can do?

[Adamchiv]

 

Hi guys, was wondering if this sort of detail is really possible through a 10inch dobsonion? Surely this would be smaller in the eyepiece than it appears on the video... I ask because I might upgrade from my explorer 130 (5.1inch) to a 10" in the future, but only based on how much improvement the planetary views would be. Thanks

[Peter Drew]

A 10" Dobsonian should be able to do better than that. I've had better results with camcorders and basic security cameras. If using mono a red filter really enhances Jupiter detail. Rather than trying to follow Jupiter manually as appears in the video clip, it is better to just let the planet drift across the field, good single frames can be retieved and stacked with a suitable programme.

[John]

Jupiter would be much, much smaller than that but would show quite a bit of fine detail if the seeing is decent and the observer takes time to observe it.

Here is a rough sketch I did of the detail I could see with my ED120mm refractor a few years back. The disk has been considerably scaled up to show the details, the actual size of Jupiter in the eyepiece would have been more like the much smaller version of the sketch I've also posted just below the enlarged one:

 

[pipnina]

This seems to closely resemble what I saw tonight through my SW 130. Also considering a 10" (Heavilly!) but mainly for DSOs and not so much planets... Although I usually stand a better chance at seeing planets than DSOs.

[brantuk]

It might help to mention the scope just gives you focus. Aperture gives you light gathering power and depth into space. But it's the eyepiece that gives you magnification and the visual size of the object perceived by your eye. The longer the focal length of the scope the sharper the focus will generally be - you can often scrutinise more detail than a shorter scope at the same magnification. Remember all the usual variables (transparency, height of object, darkness of observing site, etc) still apply.

 

[Stu]

I'm seeing significantly nicer detail in my 4" refractor tonight. The size is much smaller than that video, but focus and contrast is much better. A 10" should have excellent resolution for planets and give you lovely views of Jupiter when conditions are good.

[Adamchiv]

6 hours ago, pipnina said:

This seems to closely resemble what I saw tonight through my SW 130. Also considering a 10" (Heavilly!) but mainly for DSOs and not so much planets... Although I usually stand a better chance at seeing planets than DSOs.

I had trouble seeing the bands at all through the 10mm ep, and with the barlow it was very blurry. I wasnt in a dark area though there was a lot of light around me, hopefully thats why. Im wondering if my sw 130 is out of collimation, the white disc through the 25mm wasnt sharp and had little blobs of white light coming off it making it not always round. When I looked at the moon though the image was lovely and sharp even with the barlow plus 10mm.

[billyharris72]

That sounds more like the seeing conditions than collimation. It would have to be well out of whack to stop you getting at least a reasonable image at x65 or so. Was Jupiter blurring in and out, and changing shape? If so it is almost certainly seeing.

That said, at 25mm you should have been able to get it sharp, so there could be something else going on. Did you check the collimation? Internal reflections can be distracting and appear like the object is distorted. What eyepieces were you using? The Skywatcher MAs don't have very good blacking, so wondering if this could be an issue also.

[laudropb]

I get better views with my 200p Dob than that. Much smaller disk but much more contrast and definition. Of course seeing conditions are all important and you have to take a bit of time when observing to let your eyes adapt to the view.

[Stub Mandrel]

I can see at least that much detail through my 150PL as that, although not as 'big'.

 

[todd8137]

Hi there. What a great video I see detail in the video I can not see with the Mk1 eye ball   So what do you not like  about this  video knowing how far away she is ,and the detail that is shown  in the vid I think it's mind blowing we get to view her at all 

Pat

[Stu]

3 minutes ago, todd8137 said:

Hi there. What a great video I see detail in your video I can not see with the Mk1 eye ball   So what do you not like  about this  video what camera did you use use  ?  Am not sure why you not impressed  with it  even with a ep it should be pretty cool .what time did you take this video ?it was around 22:30/23:00 but she was high enough and out the glare of are atmosphere  ,stand tall and be proud of this video there's detail there. 

Pat

Pat, do you mean this video is better than you see in your 16"? If that's the case I'm very surprised. I see significantly more detail even in a four inch, and with good seeing a 16" will give much better resolution.

I think it is one that Adam found on YouTube, he did not take it himself.

[todd8137]

12 minutes ago, Stu said:

Pat, do you mean this video is better than you see in your 16"? If that's the case I'm very surprised. I see significantly more detail even in a four inch, and with good seeing a 16" will give much better resolution.

I think it is one that Adam found on YouTube, he did not take it himself.

I ment with out a scope  ,and yes I miss read the post and thought  the Op had taken this  himself  am not sure why people feel under whelmed by any view with or with out a scope  .

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

My 8" can do a lot better than that. Even a very old single photograph taken with my C8 on Fujichrome 1600 grabs a bit more detail

A more recent image shows what detail is hiding in the data

This is not my best from the 8", but (bar the colour, which appears paler, shows what you can spot on the fleeting moments of good seeing

[ngwillym]

I think the most important phrase is "fleeting moments of good seeing".

The more you observe Jupiter and any other planet, the more your eye will be come trained to spotting these fleeting moments and registering the detail

Neil

[DevonSkies]

That video looks pretty close to what I see visually in my 10" Dob under average conditions, to be honest. Except of course the view in the eyepiece is a lot smaller than it looks in the video.

[Cornelius Varley]

It is probably too difficult to judge if the video is what you would expect to see through an eyepiece. Other than it is a 10" reflecting telescope and the video was taken afocally we have no other info. What eye focal length was used ? How much zoom was used in the camera ? There is evidence that some zooming in was used during the video but we have nothing else to go on.

[Astro Imp]

You say the moon was giving a good sharp image but Jupiter wasn't. That strongly suggests that the problem is with the seeing not the scope. Was Jupiter low in the sky/being viewed over neighbours' houses? Either of these conditions will severely affect what you see at the eyepiece.

Keep looking and you will be rewarded with a great view eventually.

Good luck.

[Paul73]

As other have already said. You should be getting a lot better than the photo.

On the best nights I get glimpses of the sort of detail shown on Michael's good shot. On poor nights I see something like his Bad shot.

paul

[Adamchiv]

Thanks for your responses everyone. Im a bit concerned now, with the 10mm I could every now and then make out some faint brown bands. Thats about it. Im using the skywatcher EPs that came with the scope by the way if that makes a lot of difference. With the barlow plus the 10mm its very blurry and bright. In fact its been very bright during all my observations of it. As its so small in the eyepiece I really didnt think I was meant to see the sort of detail you guys have talked about. Id say at very best its a white sphere with the occational hint of cloud bands. Id better mention that it isnt dark at all where im viewing from, street lights and a couple of lamps are quite near, also ive only been able to cope with about 10 seconds at a time through the eyepiece due to my back but mainly due to eye relief. Hope this might get to the route of the problem. Thanks

[Adamchiv]

This isnt my photo, but id say this one best represents the best and most detailed view ive had. Thats with all eyepieces 

[todd8137]

4 minutes ago, Adamchiv said:

This isnt my photo, but id say this one best represents the best and most detailed view ive had. Thats with all eyepieces 

But with what scope ? and what  ep's because my 20 mm give s me one view and a 12mm gives another ,ref the pic what  ep would this represent a 40 mm ep in a 90mm scope  .i say this,because I'm not sure what scope or ep s you have ?

pat

Pat

[Adamchiv]

27 minutes ago, todd8137 said:

But with what scope ? and what  ep's because my 20 mm give s me one view and a 12mm gives another ,ref the pic what  ep would this represent a 40 mm ep in a 90mm scope  .i say this,because I'm not sure what scope or ep s you have ?

pat

Pat

Yeah sorry thats a fair point. I have a skywatcher explorer 130, the eyepieces ive been using are 25mm 10mm and barlow + either of these. What I was poorly trying to explain is the detail on that picture of jupiter itself is as good as I can get using any combination. The 10mm produces the best image, but the detail is only the same as jupiter in the picture at best. Thanks, Adam

[Paul73]

A couple of thoughts.

- Barlowing the standard 10mm SW offering will be pushing the magnification too high for the vast majority of nights. The quality of the eyepiece will not help either. 

- Getting the detail needs time at the eyepiece for your eye to become accustomed to the image and the brain to sort out whit it is seeing. I always sit down when viewing. It keeps your head still and saves the back!

- Eye relief can be a killer. You may need to invest in a new eyepiece. Assuming a telescope with a focal length of 1200mm, a 8mm BST Staguider or a avixen SLV would be good places to start. You may want to add 6mm in the future.

- Light polution shouldn't make much difference on something as bright as Jupiter.

- The image will always be a bit small. UK sky isn't stable enough to view Jupiter the size of a tennis ball!

Hope that this helps.

Paul

[todd8137]

17 minutes ago, Adamchiv said:

Yeah sorry thats a fair point. I have a skywatcher explorer 130, the eyepieces ive been using are 25mm 10mm and barlow + either of these. What I was poorly trying to explain is the detail on that picture of jupiter itself is as good as I can get using any combination. The 10mm produces the best image, but the detail is only the same as jupiter in the picture at best. Thanks, Adam

All good, sounds about right  then but am sure the bands would be there 

pat