Can't see a thing!

[alnab01]

Hi all

 

I had the perfect opportunity to get the scope out tonight for the first time and i have to admit, it didn't go well at all. I took the scope out and left it for a bit before i the stars were out in force, it was crisp cold and there wasn't a cloud in the sky (well not many). Clearly visible from my garden was the Orion Cluster - i wanted to try and see M42 and M43 - disaster!

 

Through the scope - even in the 20mm eyepiece - i could see a multitude of stars - even ones that i could not see with the naked eye - problem was, I didnt know which ones I was looking at! I tried to direct the scope to the brighter stars on the constellation and work my way to the positions of M42/43 but this was a complete failure. At one point I thought I had got there when i saw what i can only describe as 2 stars close together with a haze around them but this was probably clouds!

 

What can I do to make finding targets like this easier. Is it even possible to see this on my scope (beginners Celestron 130EQ with 20,10,15,6mm EP and 2x barlow).

 

I feel like a bit of an idiot positing this but know that there are so many here who are willing to help.

 

thanks

 

Alan

 

PS im taking it as a positive that I even got the scope out and seen lots of stars lol

[Daniel-K]

Hi Alan 

download this http://www.stellarium.org/en_GB/   it will help you navigate the sky.

 

first thing you need to do is make sure your finder scope is aligned with your main scope. easy way is do it in the daytime or use the moon or a very easy bright star. once your finder is aligned its really easy to find stuff

[happy-kat]

no question is too small

I think from reading posts the celestron red dot finder is not great to use. In theory use the red dot to point at what you want to look at, the red dot needs to be aligned to the telescope, easier done during the day on a very distant chimney or something (not the Sun).

Where you using your red dot finder to point at what you wanted to look at?

[Nigel G]

Hi Alan.

The Orion nebula should with a 20mm ep be quite visible as a faint white cloud around 2 or 3 stars, with 10mm the nebula should fill about one 3rd field of view.

Google sky app is a good guide to finding objects. 

Lining up finder will help  no end.

Also the book turn left at Orion is a very handy book to have around.

Stick at it.

Nigel.

[Nigel G]

Orion nebula with 15mm ep, you will not see the colours , only white cloud. 

 

[Dave In Vermont]

I just went and 'scoped' out the Celestron site on the web. That finder (loser, more like) looks like a true piece of swill. Celestron boasts that it is "permenantly mounted." Uh huh - hand me my hammer.....

I would be looking for a better finder and a way to attach a 'shoe' to it - such as drilling a few small holes for bolting the mounting-shoe through. Being partial to optical-finders, I'd then attach an RACI 8 X 50mm (or similar) to the scope and do a daytime alignment, as was suggested.

My 2¢,

Dave

[Alan64]

When the batteries died awhile back on my red-dot finder, I couldn't use the telescope...

I finally found replacements a few days later, and within a medical kit.

I'm lost without at least a decent finder...

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/baader-30mm-sky-surfer-iii.html

Or, return that kit, if possible, and get this kit instead... http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-130p.html

[laudropb]

Hi. I live in Lenzie, so not far from you. The sky was relatively clear this evening,but the seeing was not great. I did manage to view M42, so it was definitely viewable. You have not mentioned using your finder. Did you try to align it and use it? You will find it very difficult to locate anything, even the Moon without it. The Celestron Finder supplied with your scope has a pretty bad reputation on here. You may well have to replace it. The local club, the Glasgow Astronoical Society, has open viewing sessions most months in the Botanical Gardens on Great Western Road. It also has monthly meetings and other members viewing evenings every month from September through to May. It would b a great help to you if you could get along to some of these. Google their website and you will find more information.

[Tinker1947]

I would buy a Telrad, once aligned with Stellaruim you will wonder what all the fuse was about, i worked my way through 70+ Messier objects just with  the Telrad and Stellarium..

[Tim]

Hi Alan,

Don't worry, we've all been there  

As mentioned above, there isn't much you can't find with a Telrad and a guide, M42 will become a doddle for you, and so will much fainter objects.

Don't worry about posting whatever questions you need to, it's what we are here for!

Tim

[Dave In Vermont]

As Stellarium comes up a few times in this, and even a link, allow me and my 'cut & paste' to clarify:

Stellarium is a very large planetarium-program that provides a quite realistic view of your sky - as seen from your own location which you enter - and you can have it provide most anything you want - galaxies, nebulae, Messier objects, Caldwell catalog, man-made satellites - name it. Similar programs will cost you up to about £200. Stellarium is totally free. I am also linking two sets of instructions, one is in Wiki, the other a Pdf. to download and keep on hand. And I'll finish with a screen-shot of mine - please do know that my settings are quite advanced. Your copy will start out quite simple, until you add objects to your settings. Here you are:

http://www.stellarium.org/
 
As for instructions, the most current one's are posted in Wiki due to there being new features & functions being created almost daily. There is also a Pdf. that's almost up-to-date, absolutely enough 'up-to-date' in all needed ways. Here's the Wiki-Link:
 
http://www.stellarium.org/wiki/index.php/Stellarium_User_Guide
 
And the Pdf. is here:
 
http://barry.sarcasmogerdes.com/stellarium/stellarium_user_guide-new.pdf

 

Have fun,

Dave

 

Click image for full size.

[Riemann]

Hi.   Your experience sounds like my first couple of sessions when I started.   Keep going, it will suddenly all fall into place

If you want an easy win to start off, Jupiter is pretty good.  It rises in the east from about 9:00pm, reaching SE by midnight and south and its maximum height in the sky by 2.30am.    The higher in the sky the better but even fairly low it will give you worthwhile views.    Timings will get earlier as the weeks pass.  Jupiter kept me going when I was struggling to begin with!

I will give another vote to the Telrad finder.   I put one on my second scope and immediately wished I had put one on my first scope which was the Skywatcher equivalent of yours; I would have got far more out of it if I had.

 

[Ant]

Personally I like my red dot finder. But it does need to be aligned first.

Generally once aligned you need to smack it into something to make the alignment so bad as to not be useable. Drag the scope out in daylight, point the scope at something far away like a lamp post or tv aerial. Then align the finder to that.

It doesn't have to be exact - so roughly in the middle of the circle or dot. (remember to turn it off)

When you next go out under the stars, pop in the lowest power eyepiece (highest number) and move the scope around so that a brightish star is in the middle of the finder circle / dot - look through the scope, see the star, fine tune the finder and your good to go.

It really isn't hard - but getting it roughly aligned during daylight (the first time) is really key.

Cheers

Ant

[alnab01]

thanks guys

I have had real difficulty using the finder on the scope and i know from reading various posts that it is next to useless anyway. Was planning on buying a telrad - is it worth it do you think? Also, someone mentioned aligning it with stellarium. How do you do this?

 

Alan

[Putaendo Patrick]

8 minutes ago, alnab01 said:

Was planning on buying a telrad - is it worth it do you think?

Yes, it is!

But if you're on a very tight budget, there are cheaper alternatives which will be better than what you have at the moment. For example, a simple finderscope:

http://www.opticalvision.co.uk/astronomical_accessories-finderscopes/5x24_finderscope_and_bracket.html

Provided, of course, that you can fit it on your tube.

Many go-to telescopes can be operated through Stellarium - but yours is manual. I use Stellarium as a map, either switching it to the red night-vision mode if I take my laptop outside, or printing off screen-shots from Stellarium of areas I'm interested in observing.

 

[MARS1960]

Something else you may find very useful when starting out is a smart phone, i used my 8" tablet.

You can see the cardinal points on stellarium and the altitude in degrees if you click on one of the globes.

Download a compass and a clinometer, check on stellarium where you want to look, make a note, take your phone and away you go.

[Astro Imp]

The Telrad is an excellent piece of kit but is rather large. An alternative that comes highly recommended but with a smaller foot print is the Rigel Quickfinder:- http://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/rigel-quikfinder-compact-reflex-sight.html

[jrastro]

This is slightly irrelevant but my telrad broke the other night and I was still able to find (with perseverance) 3 targets. A working finder will obviously make things much easier but make sure it is properly aligned

[Ant]

I've owned a Telrad, many many years ago. They are very good.

But the technique is the same, it still needs to be aligned. There seems to be a trend of not succeeding with the kit you have and that spending more money on better kit will be the answer.

Sorry but that isn't correct, if you cannot get a red dot finder to work, then a Telrad probably won't be any easier. I have used the cheapest red dot finder I could find - the only thing wrong with it was that it went though batteries really quick! It worked pretty good once aligned.

Don't spend more money yet, you need to get what you've got working. So what I've suggested and toy will get it working.

You cannot align a finder to stellrium (or however it's spelt), that's a piece of software on your tablet that will show you where things are. Remember that using a tablet or phone will ruin your night vision, maybe invest in a pirate patch (I am serious), you can at least protect one eye  but you do look stupid!

 

Cheers

Ant

[Joe12345]

7 minutes ago, ant said:

I've owned a Telrad, many many years ago. They are very good.

But the technique is the same, it still needs to be aligned. There seems to be a trend of not succeeding with the kit you have and that spending more money on better kit will be the answer.

Sorry but that isn't correct, if you cannot get a red dot finder to work, then a Telrad probably won't be any easier.

 

 

I'm pretty sure a telrad is 100000* better than the red dot finder that came with your scope. I've used both and found that the red dot finder you have is hopeless compared to the telrad. Some other red dot finders might be fine, although I find that with the one you have it's impossible to get the 2 dots aligned while looking at the background.

In other words, yes yes yes, by a telrad/rigel, you definitely won't regret it.

I feel like I must be wrong, disagreeing with an admin!

[Flyingfuzz]

Red dot finders are not that bad. Make sure it is aligned, this is essential, then make sure you look through the finder correctly. I find looking along the OTA from the back of the scope works, once you have the red dot in your view finder visable if you move the red dot appears to stay in the same place, if the red dot moves around you are not looking from the sweet spot. Keep trying you will soon get the hange of it.

[BritAngler]

If you want a finder that works as well as the Telrad but doesn't look like a house brick stuck to your 'scope, try the Celestron Starpointer Pro. I have one of these and find it easy to use (despite some reports on this forum).

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/celestron-starpointer-pro-finderscope.html