Best binoviewer eyepieces?

[Highburymark]

I bought a pair of WO binoviewers yesterday - mainly for lunar and planetary with Nexstar 6 evo. Came with two WO EPs - not Swans or Uwans but still look nice - 66 degree 20mm eyepieces. My question is this: in an eyepiece-forgiving F10 SCT, is there any point in me thinking about buying a second Panoptic 24mm for binoviewing, or will the supplied WO eyepieces be just as good? I'll probably use a Baader VIP Barlow for higher mag views, so not planning any other EP purchases (unless SGL can persuade me otherwise, and admittedly, you are very good at doing that). 

[Fozzie]

Evening, I've the same set and have impressed with the supplied WO eyepieces in my f11 so hopefully you'll be pleased when these clouds finally do one..

I've been looking at others also, but ive found a slight issue in the ep width, I could just about manage with a pair of slv ep's but my 24mm es68 is significantly more rotund than the slv so I doubt it would work... 

Ive ruled out a pair of 25mm plossls as I think it would show the same fov but a bit less mag..

 

will defo be interested in others responses also..

thanks

Fozzie

[Mak the Night]

I have a WO bino. I believe the 20mm EP's with it are 72° SWAN’s but as you can only see a 66° maximum with the WO bino’s the EP’s have 66° written on them. I also believe any eyepiece with a field stop of over 20mm won’t be able to use any more than that either as the bino isn't big enough. 

I have a pair of 9mm 72° SWAN’s as well, a pair of TeleVue 15mm Plossls, 12.5mm & 25mm Hutech ortho’s and I plan on getting a pair of 18mm BCO’s. 

I also have a pair of 19mm TV Panoptics, but they are a bit heavy for me and besides they are 68°. I may try them one day though.

The SWAN's have been rehoused recently lol.

The TV Plossls are very good in the bino.

[GavStar]

I've got both the WO 66 and the pan 24s. I use them in a f7.4 refractor and pans are clearly better at the edge. On axis though the WO are very close imo and with your f10 I imagine the difference will be less. Given the ££££ difference I would stick with the wo and see how you get on with them. I find the WO very comfortable to view through - maybe a bit better than the pans in this respect.

Gavin

[Highburymark]

Thanks for all your replies. Look forward to seeing if binoviewers really add another dimension to moon and planets. Hoping that the WO eyepieces will be all I need.

[Mak the Night]

There is a WO 2x Barlow nosepiece available from FLO. It would give the 20mm SWAN'S 150x on your C6. 

[Highburymark]

Hopefully the VIP Barlow will do that satisfactorily Mac. But I look forward to trying it out.

[Mak the Night]

Yeah, it could work. I don't know much about using anything other than the nosepiece Barlows with the WO bino. I think it can get complicated lol. The 20mm SWAN's are pretty good in the bino. Wait until you see the Moon with the bino, you'll be so astounded you'll fall off your chair!

[F15Rules]

Hi Mark

I have a Maxbright binoviewer (sadly for sale at the moment) and also the WO 66 eyepiece pair you mention.

The WO pair are very good all rounders and Barlow well in my Baaders. I also have pairs of CJZ 10mm orthos which with my Baader 1.25x glasspath corrector give about 8mm performance and they are breathtaking on objects like moon, Jupiter and M42, even though only a 40 or so deg FOV.

I also have a pair of Vixen 30mm NPL plossls which vignette very slightly but are razor sharp and a pair of Astro Tech 12.5mm 55 deg which are also excellent but hard to find in the UK.

I did have a pair of ES24 68s but they were a tad wide for my IPD. A shame, as they were excellent (I kept one for Cyclops viewing, it's that good).

Enjoy your new toy Mark- BVs are not for everything but for Moon, planets etc they are stunning:)

 

Dave

[Highburymark]

Thanks Dave - orthos are another option (have been reading your thread on the subject with interest Mak). Just when I thought I had all the eyepieces I need - nevertheless, it's always a pleasure to research and discover new eps.

[niallk]

I use a pair of TV 15mm plossls too in my BV'er - works great, light EPs, and while I like the Nagler fov for cyclops viewing of DSOs, the fov is quite fine for planets & moon at 240x.  I find binoviewing just great for Teasing out finer detail on these targets (and sunspots) - I hope you find it adds a whole new dimension too!

Best of luck

-Niall

[Mak the Night]

8 hours ago, Highburymark said:

Thanks Dave - orthos are another option (have been reading your thread on the subject with interest Mak). Just when I thought I had all the eyepieces I need - nevertheless, it's always a pleasure to research and discover new eps.

Ortho's are a bit new for me as well but they seem ideal for high power bino viewing. I really only use my bino for lunar/planetary. The limited FOV of ortho's isn't a real problem at relatively high magnifications.

[Astral Enigma]

On 2/7/2016 at 09:34, F15Rules said:

I have a Maxbright binoviewer (sadly for sale at the moment) and also the WO 66 eyepiece pair you mention.

The WO pair are very good all rounders and Barlow well in my Baaders. I also have pairs of CJZ 10mm orthos which with my Baader 1.25x glasspath corrector give about 8mm performance and they are breathtaking on objects like moon, Jupiter and M42, even though only a 40 or so deg FOV.

 

Hi - just wondered how you feel the Baader Maxbright binoviewer compares with the Williams Optics, in their original state (before changing any default eyepieces) and with different ones. Is the fact you are/were selling the Maxbrights an indication you feel the WO is better? Thanks!

[Dude_with_the_tube]

WO binoviewers have only 20mm prisms and you will not be able to use 24mm Pans as they will vignette quite heavy.Supplied 20mm EPS are perfectly fine and will show and give you a lot of WOW moments.

As i have said many times over,a cheap plossl or erfle or ortho are the PERFECT cheap combo for all binoviewers.Also these are small and compact and you will not have any problems getting your eyes positioned.I would say for time being dont buy anything.Test the unit see how you feel and do you like it or not.Then only you can think of the next step of either upgrading binoviewer to unit with larger prisms,or getting some extra pairs of EP`s in different magnifictaions.

Clear skies

[Highburymark]

Useful advice - thanks

[F15Rules]

On ‎06‎/‎03‎/‎2016 at 13:27, Astral Enigma said:

Hi - just wondered how you feel the Baader Maxbright binoviewer compares with the Williams Optics, in their original state (before changing any default eyepieces) and with different ones. Is the fact you are/were selling the Maxbrights an indication you feel the WO is better? Thanks!

Hi Astral Enigma (interesting name :-))

I don't think there is much, if any difference between the William Optics and Maxbright binoviewers in terms of optics. I have owned both, and at the moment own neither!

For me the pros of each are as follows:

Baader Maxbrights:

- I think Baader generally have better quality control than WO. I've had several WO products (not binoviewers) that I wasn't happy with in the past, I've never had a Baader product that was in any way below par. QC is vital when buying Chinese made products, (and I know this from past non-astro experience): put bluntly, you can't trust them without being on-site, regularly, to do quality inspections and checks. I don't think the big volume players like Celestron do these checks, which is why I wouldn't buy one of their binoviewers. That's just my own opinion, others may differ.

-I really like the Baader T2 module system whereby they do a huge range of T2 compatible adapters and accessories. I like to use binoviewers at native magnification, (ie no barlow lens), or as near as I can to that. That means using components that consume the least in-focus on your scope, and one of the best ways to do that is to connect your Maxbrights with a T2 adapter to a T2 baader prism diagonal (superb quality) and a T2 connection to your scope back end. My Vixen apo accommodates that. You can't do that with a WO binoviewer, it's got a 1.25" nosepiece and that's your lot!

Also with the Maxbrights you can use a 2" nosepiece instead of a 1.25" one. Not much if any benefit optically, but if you're using a bv with eyepieces on a smaller scope, the weight can put a lot of strain on your focuser, and the 2" nosepiece will feel much more secure in the same way a 2" diagonal does compared to a 1.25"..

- Going back to the above, Baader offers a 1.25x glasspath corrector (barlow), as well as 1.7x and higher, whereas the lowest you can get with WO is a 1.6x. With the Maxbrights you can get the lowest magnification if you do have to use a barlow. (It's possible the Baader 1.25x GP corrector would work with the WO binoviewers, I don't know)...I think it uses a standard 1.25" filter thread?

William Optics

-They are "pretty", with attractive packaging and good looks (but of course its optics and practicality that really count).

-They are about 30-50% cheaper than the Baaders' bearing in mind they come with eyepieces and the x1.6 barlow.

-They have larger eyepiece retaining screws than the Maxbrights, which have 3 ridiculously small and fiddly screws, almost impossible to use easily in the cold and dark.

Note: if I were buying another pair anytime soon (which sadly I'm not), I'd be tempted by the TS optics set, just because of their lack of eyepiece retaining screws, using instead the nifty rotating eyepiece securing collars, which seem much more sensible to me. I should say that I have become very intolerant of silly small screws of late (probably my age), and have moved to using Baader Click Locks wherever I can for securing large and often pricey eyepieces. Then again, I don't think I could use my beloved T2 system with the TS optics..

I too have heard that the Maxbrights are being redesigned. But this is long overdue as I don't think they have changed much, if at all, in 8 years or so. For me, the best two upgrades they could offer would be a) to increase the clear aperture slightly, to 23-25mm, to allow lower magnification eyepieces without vignetting, and b), introduce eyepiece retaining collars as mentioned above.

Regarding eyepiece performance, I think that pairs that work in the Maxbrights will probably work just as well in the WO's . For what it's worth, pairs that I used until recently were:

-Carl Zeiss Jena 10mm orthos - fabulous high power planetary eyepieces (with 1.25" sleeves as they are older 0.965" design)

-Astro-Tech 12.5mm Long Eye relief 55 degree field. Wide field compared to the Zeiss, but very nice in performance

-WO 20mm 66 degrees - actually nice eyepieces in binoviewers. I wouldn't use these in Cyclops viewing, but somehow quite modest eyepieces work very well when paired up in a binoviewer.

-ES 24mm 68 degrees - lovely views, but slightly too bulky and wide for some peoples IPD distance - I was on the limit myself.

-Vixen NPL 30mm - another modestly priced pair. Now, I WOULD (and do) use these in Cyclops mode: I think these are as good to my eyes, in my scopes, as LV/NLV Vixens at much lower cost. The 30mms did vignette a little, but it was very little and the views were very sharp across the visible field.

Hope that's of some help to you :-)

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

[Astral Enigma]

Thanks Dave - that's really helpful... indeed probably too much so as it's now thrown the field wide open again!! I was slowly coming down to the Williams option - partly because they include the two 20mm eyepieces (Plossl I believe?) and no-one seems to say anything bad about those, at least in this context. As far as I can tell, they're not available separately though? I agree with your thoughts about tiny screws - in fact I bought some big ones with long threads to use in place of some of my smaller ones - so the compression rings on the TS offering is now back in the frame, especially if I can find some decent eyepieces. As I have two Celestron SCT's, and each came with a default 25mm Plossl, I could try those to start with, and Televue 15mm Plossls might get added later. My usual problem is getting eyepieces I then find I can't get on with - I've hardly used my Baader Hyperion 10mm for example.

[F15Rules]

If I were you I'd stick with the WO for now and see what new things might come out this year?

By the way, there's a new pair of WO 20mm 66deg on UKAstro buy sell right now for £65 the pair..

I now the seller and he's a straight honest guy..

Good luck

 

Dave

[Astral Enigma]

Thanks again Dave. At the moment I don't have any at all, so planning to buy something soonish... I know someone in Stoke-On_Trent too, so he may well know him. Those plus a TS BV is one option, or the WO BV set is the other. Decisions! I'll think overnight - for now, there is a dark area above my head outside with twinkly things in it. Think I remember seeing that last year.... ;-) better make the most of it!! 

By the way, I see you have the Pentax XL zoom - what do you think of it? I have an Opticstar zoom, but have always been a Pentax camera user....

 

 

[F15Rules]

The Pentax zoom is great. I've had an XF zoom and hated it, literally, it had so much chromatic aberration and that was in a very slow, long refractor.

The SMC or XL Zoom is different class. I've had 3 Baader MKIII's which are great value but this one is significantly superior in my opinion, better contrast and sharper. Build is superb. 

The zoom is a little stiff (due to the O Ring waterproof seal), but its freeing up with use and also the clicklock adapter system grips really tightly so turning the zoom becomes much easier.

Its early days but so far I love it:-)

 

Dave

[Mak the Night]

The 20mm WO SWAN's are not Plossls but 72° wide angle (most probably a modified Erfle design) although they have 66° written on them as that is the bino FOV limit.

20mm Swan, 1.25" barrel
5/4 lenses/groups
72 degree FOV
17mm eye relief
Weight - 100g

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/clearance/william-optics-swan-eyepiece.html

[Astral Enigma]

End of procrastination.... decided on the TS Optics BVs - there seems to be a number of people that have had the Williams that now say they'd go for the TVs instead, though more people have WOs.

However as everyone seems to agree the WO 20mm EPs are actually rather good (at least for their pricepoint and/or for being included with the WO BVs), I've acquired an unused pair of them too from UKAstro. I suspect I'll add some 15mm TV Plossls later. It will be interesting to see what works with the 2.5x Powermate I have, on a 9.25" SCT.....

Still pondering the Pentax zoom too! Then that'll be this year's budget gone (well, actually gone twice but nevermind. Whoops!)

[Highburymark]

Sounds good Astral Enigma. I'd be particularly interested how your powermate works with the binos. I haven't had a chance to use my WO binoviewers yet, so am waiting to see if the included WO Barlow or my Baader VIP is more effective.

BTW the Pentax XL zoom is terrific value at the moment from FLO - £299. In the past it's been over £400. 

[Highburymark]

On 7 March 2016 at 16:01, F15Rules said:

Hi Astral Enigma (interesting name :-))

I don't think there is much, if any difference between the William Optics and Maxbright binoviewers in terms of optics. I have owned both, and at the moment own neither!

For me the pros of each are as follows:

Baader Maxbrights:

- I think Baader generally have better quality control than WO. I've had several WO products (not binoviewers) that I wasn't happy with in the past, I've never had a Baader product that was in any way below par. QC is vital when buying Chinese made products, (and I know this from past non-astro experience): put bluntly, you can't trust them without being on-site, regularly, to do quality inspections and checks. I don't think the big volume players like Celestron do these checks, which is why I wouldn't buy one of their binoviewers. That's just my own opinion, others may differ.

-I really like the Baader T2 module system whereby they do a huge range of T2 compatible adapters and accessories. I like to use binoviewers at native magnification, (ie no barlow lens), or as near as I can to that. That means using components that consume the least in-focus on your scope, and one of the best ways to do that is to connect your Maxbrights with a T2 adapter to a T2 baader prism diagonal (superb quality) and a T2 connection to your scope back end. My Vixen apo accommodates that. You can't do that with a WO binoviewer, it's got a 1.25" nosepiece and that's your lot!

Also with the Maxbrights you can use a 2" nosepiece instead of a 1.25" one. Not much if any benefit optically, but if you're using a bv with eyepieces on a smaller scope, the weight can put a lot of strain on your focuser, and the 2" nosepiece will feel much more secure in the same way a 2" diagonal does compared to a 1.25"..

- Going back to the above, Baader offers a 1.25x glasspath corrector (barlow), as well as 1.7x and higher, whereas the lowest you can get with WO is a 1.6x. With the Maxbrights you can get the lowest magnification if you do have to use a barlow. (It's possible the Baader 1.25x GP corrector would work with the WO binoviewers, I don't know)...I think it uses a standard 1.25" filter thread?

William Optics

-They are "pretty", with attractive packaging and good looks (but of course its optics and practicality that really count).

-They are about 30-50% cheaper than the Baaders' bearing in mind they come with eyepieces and the x1.6 barlow.

-They have larger eyepiece retaining screws than the Maxbrights, which have 3 ridiculously small and fiddly screws, almost impossible to use easily in the cold and dark.

Note: if I were buying another pair anytime soon (which sadly I'm not), I'd be tempted by the TS optics set, just because of their lack of eyepiece retaining screws, using instead the nifty rotating eyepiece securing collars, which seem much more sensible to me. I should say that I have become very intolerant of silly small screws of late (probably my age), and have moved to using Baader Click Locks wherever I can for securing large and often pricey eyepieces. Then again, I don't think I could use my beloved T2 system with the TS optics..

I too have heard that the Maxbrights are being redesigned. But this is long overdue as I don't think they have changed much, if at all, in 8 years or so. For me, the best two upgrades they could offer would be a) to increase the clear aperture slightly, to 23-25mm, to allow lower magnification eyepieces without vignetting, and b), introduce eyepiece retaining collars as mentioned above.

Regarding eyepiece performance, I think that pairs that work in the Maxbrights will probably work just as well in the WO's . For what it's worth, pairs that I used until recently were:

-Carl Zeiss Jena 10mm orthos - fabulous high power planetary eyepieces (with 1.25" sleeves as they are older 0.965" design)

-Astro-Tech 12.5mm Long Eye relief 55 degree field. Wide field compared to the Zeiss, but very nice in performance

-WO 20mm 66 degrees - actually nice eyepieces in binoviewers. I wouldn't use these in Cyclops viewing, but somehow quite modest eyepieces work very well when paired up in a binoviewer.

-ES 24mm 68 degrees - lovely views, but slightly too bulky and wide for some peoples IPD distance - I was on the limit myself.

-Vixen NPL 30mm - another modestly priced pair. Now, I WOULD (and do) use these in Cyclops mode: I think these are as good to my eyes, in my scopes, as LV/NLV Vixens at much lower cost. The 30mms did vignette a little, but it was very little and the views were very sharp across the visible field.

Hope that's of some help to you :-)

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dave - thanks for this excellent post. 

[F15Rules]

36 minutes ago, Highburymark said:

Sounds good Astral Enigma. I'd be particularly interested how your powermate works with the binos. I haven't had a chance to use my WO binoviewers yet, so am waiting to see if the included WO Barlow or my Baader VIP is more effective.

BTW the Pentax XL zoom is terrific value at the moment from FLO - £299. In the past it's been over £400. 

Hi Mark, 

Totally agree ref the Pentax Zoom and I took advantage of FLO's sale to buy mine recently:-).

I plan to do an review of the Pentax and my new APM Barlow quite soon..

Dave