wide field refractor Tele Vue-60 Review

[Piero]

Here is a review about the Tele Vue 60mm F6 which has been my main telescope since December 2014.

It is the smallest telescope sold by Tele Vue and one of the smallest in the market. The family tree for the Tele Vue 60mm (TV60) includes the Tele Vue Pronto and Tele Vue Ranger, which were designed from the Tele Vue Genesis. In my opinion the TV60 design moved towards compactness and well corrected optics. At 60mm I think I am right to say that the best telescopes one can get are the Takahashi 60mm F5.9 and the TV60. A comparison between these two telescope can be found at http://www.cloudynights.com/documents/tv60vstak60.pdf . Apart from the focuser, reviews on these two telescopes are quite similar. 

Tele Vue: Pronto 

Tele Vue Ranger

():

My Tele Vue-60:

 

The TV60 is not cheap, although almost none of the products by Tele Vue are cheap, and it is rare to find in the second hand market. It is often considered as a bird scope and limited for astronomy due to its small aperture. All in all, this is true. However, the TV60 should not being compared with the other telescopes because its features are quite peculiar. Briefly, the TV60 is a wide field refractor with a doublet objective. This means that it has the full capabilities of a well corrected binocular 15x70 (~4.3 degrees fov), but allows the user to push the magnification far behond the limits of many telescopes of similar size. The only thing that really affects high magnification in the TV60 is resolution, not image quality. 

The TV60 is not sold with a finder. Tele Vue made two holes on the extensible shield to install a Tele Vue Qwik point finder (http://www.televue.com/engine/TV3b_page.asp?id=65 , possibly the only weak product sold by Tele Vue). Personally, I do not really think one needs a finder as this is a wide field telescope. Said this some people have difficulties at finding targets directly using a refractor diagonal. This is not straightforward, particularly since the view at the diagonal is horizontally reversed. Said this I think it is all down to a bit of practice and within some time one can get used to it.

The focuser is inherited from the Tele Vue Ranger. It is a helical focuser which only accepts 1.25" diagonals. This means that for achieving the largest field of view, one needs a 24mm 68 afov (e.g. Panoptic 24mm) or a Plossl 32mm 50 afov. As the TV60 is not sold with a diagonal, one should also add this to the purchase list. As note the TV60 requires a diagonal or a tube extension for reaching focus with eyepieces.
At 15x (e.g. using a Panoptic 24mm) one gets 4.0mm exit pupil and 4.3 deg fov. That is something only a wide field telescope or 15x70 binoculars can do, at a weight less than 2kg. 
For DSO (excluding double stars) to me the best magnification range is from 15x to 70x. For planets from 70x to 120x. I have not spot aberrations at higher magnification up to 206x. However, as the resolution depends on aperture, the image will gradually lose crispiness. I only use those higher magnifications for splitting colours in some doubles, whereas the airy discs remain overlapped.

The TV60 works very well for solar observation in white light (e.g. using a Lunt Hershel Wedge solar filter). I am not an experienced solar observer, but I think the TV60 can show several details at different magnifications from 30x to 120x. 

Here are some pictures of the Sun (my only images as I am not an imager) taken with my phone: 

 

Some details on planets are observable but these are not straightforward to pick up. One needs patience, and multiple observations to learn this. I picked up a hint of the cassini division at 72x and one Saturn band. Titan is obvious but I also managed to spot Rhea with averted vision at 28x once. When observing at twilight, I could see some colour on Jupiter's belts. I can see the two main equatorial belts and when the seeing is good the two polar ones too. I have not had a chance to spot the GRS or moon transits so far.

Regarding DSO, it really shines on wide-medium DSO, e.g. Pleiades, Haydes, Double Cluster, Alpha-Persei Moving Cluster, North America, Veil, Andromeda galaxy, Rosette nebula, etc. A remark though! You need dark skies for viewing many nebulae and a OIII filter can be the trick. On a summer holiday I visited the house of my relatives on the Dolomites, a fairly dark place and I could see M51, M101, M33, NGC281 and many others (see report https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/250093-report-from-lorenzago-di-cadore-italy/). Bright planetary nebulae (e.g. M27, M57, M76, M97, NGC40, NGC2392, etc) can be spot at 50x-70x, often with a OIII filter. None of these targets looked like pictures on astronomy books or on the Internet, but they are visible with some patience with a telescope which can be carried by hand, taken with you in a plane cabin, does not require more than 10 minutes to cool down from a warm room to outside in the winter. 

 

For a comprehensive list of annotated targets mostly observed using my TV60, see the following document : tv60_comprehensive_target_list.pdf . 

In conclusion, I would not advise the TV60 as first telescope and, unless one often travels by flight, not even as second telescope. Basically if one owns a car to reach a dark location or observes from a garden, I believe a SW 80 Ed or a 100mm refractor is a far better choice as second telescope for visual astronomy. Said this, I am very happy with it but I do not own a car (I cycle to dark locations) and do not have a garden. Plus changing houses has been frequent in the last 6 years of my life. Therefore being light is a requirement.

 

If interested, another review for the TV60 can be found here: http://scopeviews.co.uk/TV60.htm .

[scarp15]

Excellent review Piero and a good account for what the scope is both capable of and in what circumstances. I really Like the pictures and idea for cycling with the scope to a suitable location.

[Drop Of Sun]

Great review, Piero. I love my Tele Vue 60, I use it for solar mostly but also deep sky / planets / moon on holiday. I love the compact size and it's fun trying to spot some tricky targets. It has some character!

I had a lovely full view of the Veil in Summer.

[Stu]

Lovely review Piero, and a lovely little scope. As you well know, I share your passion for small refractors and my (now sold) Tak FS-60C I'm sure performs to a similar level to the TV60.

GRS is certainly possible, as are shadow transits, and possibly Callisto. Not trivial and they need patience, but it's great to challenge yourself to see these things in a small scope, something which you do amazingly well ??

[John]

Very nicely written and illustrated review Piero - thanks for compiling and posting it

I've owned quite a few smaller refractors including quite nice 70mm, 80mm and 90mm ED doublets. Eventually I decided that 100mm was the minimum aperture that gave me satisfying views of a range of object types so thats the smallest aperture that I've owned for sometime now, excluding binoculars.

I'm sometimes tempted by TV Pronto's, 76's etc when they come up but I don't think I'd hang onto them for long.

 

[Piero]

12 minutes ago, Stu said:

GRS is certainly possible, as are shadow transits, and possibly Callisto. Not trivial and they need patience, but it's great to challenge yourself to see these things in a small scope, something which you do amazingly well ??

Thanks Stu. Yes, I forgot to mention. All 4 Jupiter's moons are visible with the TV60. I have not tried hard on the other features as I generally prefer deep sky than planets, but I will give go for them this Spring. Said this, the GRS is quite small recently so this could add an extra challenge for a 60! Still worth trying though!

 

6 minutes ago, John said:

Very nicely written and illustrated review Piero - thanks for compiling and posting it

I've owned quite a few smaller refractors including quite nice 70mm, 80mm and 90mm ED doublets. Eventually I decided that 100mm was the minimum aperture that gave me satisfying views of a range of object types so thats the smallest aperture that I've owned for sometime now, excluding binoculars.

I'm sometimes tempted by TV Pronto's, 76's etc when they come up but I don't think I'd hang onto them for long.

 

Thanks John. If I am allowed to say this, considering your experience, I think you have already deeply explored the range 60-100mm telescopes. I think your 100mm makes an ideal powerful grab and go, but as you say, I would doubt you would keep something smaller unless you start travelling by plane a lot. Possibly a 16in-20in would be more suitable for you, but that would also be a dream for many other members, me included!

[John]

17 minutes ago, Piero said:

Thanks John. If I am allowed to say this, considering your experience, I think you have already deeply explored the range 60-100mm telescopes. I think your 100mm makes an ideal powerful grab and go, but as you say, I would doubt you would keep something smaller unless you start travelling by plane a lot. Possibly a 16in-20in would be more suitable for you, but that would also be a dream for many other members, me included!

I fear that anything much larger than my current 12" will remain a dream for me as well - it's just not practical.

I really admire the way that you have thoroughly explored what your 60mm Tele Vue can deliver. I got rather impatient with the smaller scopes that I owned and quite a few went through my hands rather too quickly

 

[Stu]

28 minutes ago, Piero said:

Thanks Stu. Yes, I forgot to mention. All 4 Jupiter's moons are visible with the TV60. I have not tried hard on the other features as I generally prefer deep sky than planets, but I will give go for them this Spring. Said this, the GRS is quite small recently so this could add an extra challenge for a 60! Still worth trying though!

 

Thanks John. If I am allowed to say this, considering your experience, I think you have already deeply explored the range 60-100mm telescopes. I think your 100mm makes an ideal powerful grab and go, but as you say, I would doubt you would keep something smaller unless you start travelling by plane a lot. Possibly a 16in-20in would be more suitable for you, but that would also be a dream for many other members, me included!

For clarity Piero, I meant that Callisto may be visible when it transits as it is much darker and almost appears like a shadow transit. Of course all four are quite easy when not it transit or occultation.

[Piero]

About the 16-20in telescope I was thinking about the light these telescopes can collect and therefore the wider range of possible targets. You are definitely right about the practicality and that is really a major point to be considered in this hobby. Somehow, this is a bit sad, but on the other hand it is sensible. It is the reason why I don't have a dobson here in the UK. I have being dreaming about it for years, but under my circumstances it is just not practical. Having a telescope abandoned in a room is like having a book containing a wonderful story that nobody is reading. Said this, there are plenty of things to see and to discover with what we have, and this is still a good healthy way to enjoy our hobby. 

I think that a combination of a good telescope, decent sky and careful / patient / trained eyes is all what one need. Then, if the telescope is excellent that's better, but careful eyes can make the difference. Some of us might be born with a good eye-mind setup, but generally, everyone can train himself / herself if desired. One of the advantages of a place like SGL is to share experiences like this in order to improve our observation and catch things beyond what most people consider a limit. Reading observation reports and advices like yours, Stu, Nick (cotterless45), moonshane, Rob (Qualia), Alan, Jerry (jetstream), Yong (YKSE), acey, and many many others, are a very rich source to train our eyes, learn the sky, and to get the most out of them with any instrument. 

[Ruud]

Thank you Piero, for a wonderful review. The TV60 is probably unbeaten when it comes to performance and  value for size! 

[RT65CB-SWL]

Great review Piero.

A member of my local club/society has a TV60 and uses it with a Naglar 2-4mm zoom. I would have thought this combo was OTT/overkill!

[Stu]

1 hour ago, Philip R said:

Great review Piero.

A member of my local club/society has a TV60 and uses it with a Naglar 2-4mm zoom. I would have thought this combo was OTT/overkill!

I agree, I would say around 3.5mm was max in this scope so a 3 to 6 Nag works well

[Piero]

I agree, I would say around 3.5mm was max in this scope so a 3 to 6 Nag works well

In my opinion, the TV60 can be pushed beyond 103x (3.5mm focal length ep, 0.6mm exit pupil). I tried:

- 129x (Nagler 7 + PM2.5)

- 144x (Vixen 5 + Bresser SA 2x)

- 180 (Vixen 5 + PM2.5)

- 206 (Nagler 3.5 + Bresser SA 2x)

I don't have many floaters. I was not able to see aberrations at any of the above magnifications. Instead I was surprised that the image although dimmer, was not that dimmer as I would have thought considering the smaller exit pupil. Apart from doubles, I saw the Sun at 129x and in a day with stable seeing I actually had one of the best view of this target. I saw the Moon and planets multiple times at all the magnifications above. Resolution is gradually affected, but not image quality in terms of aberration. Said this, telescope resolution and eye resolution are not the same thing. There is a gain in colour resolution even at 180x or 206x. Jupiter at twilight (or dawn although I am not a person waking up to observe earlier in the morning) when the seeing is steady, and with the help of a single polarising filter, showed me very faint oblique line features on the equatorial belts and these were detectable because of a tiny difference in colour. I haven't ever managed to see these at lower magnifications or after twilight. In the latter cases belts were generally homogeneous. It requires a lot of patience, long observation at the eyepieces (often 1h at least) and steady seeing. Also Venus was quite good at higher magnification and to me the reason was that the exit pupil was sufficiently short to reduce the glare. Again the view with a single polarising filter was very good at my eye at 206x. The planet border did show limited glare and a few times I had the impression to see a very faint large V shape near the equator. Again this at twilight. This was not visible at lower magnification because the planet was just too bright. Another interesting target is the Moon. The feature borders are of course less crisps, and in this case, there was nothing at 180x or 206x that I could not see at lower magnification. However, at high magnifications things were noticeable whereas they could just pass unobserved at lower magnification. Therefore, to me 180x (2mm exit pupil) can be usable on certain targets with the TV60 and is actually part of my "ultra light combo" - the trio: Pan24, Vixen5, PM2.5x (15x, 37.5x 72x, 180x).

If one wants to buy a Nagler zoom, I would also suggest a 3-6 rather than a 2-4, but for other reasons than its lack of practicability on the TV60. These reasons are that a 3-6 can find more use on other telescopes, it sells better in the second hand market, I find 5mm (72x, 0.8mm e.p.) a great focal length for certain DSO (e.g. bright planetary nebulae) and an initial magnification for planetary observation, and finally 3-6 offers a very nice range for solar observation with the TV60. 

Although powerful, I personally don't want a zoom because of the short eye relief. I owned short focal length plossls and they are just not for me. To me a Vixen SLV is a very comfortable eyepieces offering delightful views. I always found it superior to my Naglers. The only problem of the Vixen SLV is that it makes you wish to have a larger field of view, but then one enters in the field of Deloi / Pentax's and if still not sufficient, even Ethoi, paying much more.

[Stu]

I guess my issue is that I do have floaters, particularly in the centre of my observing eye, so that limits the practical magnification (exit pupil) I can use on small scopes, regardless of their capability. I totally agree that these high quality apos can be pushed very hard and perform amazingly for their size.

[DRT]

I managed to hold out for almost a year since this little gem first caught my eye but last night I cracked and bought one.

I am hoping it will arrive in time for my forthcoming trip to Skye as I am sure it will provide some stunning wide field views and will be an excellent spotting scope nearby for wildlife.

[Piero]

20 hours ago, DRT said:

I managed to hold out for almost a year since this little gem first caught my eye but last night I cracked and bought one.

I am hoping it will arrive in time for my forthcoming trip to Skye as I am sure it will provide some stunning wide field views and will be an excellent spotting scope nearby for wildlife.

Hiya Derek!

Did you get a TV60??!   

It's a nice little scope! The wide field views it delivers with my 24 Pan are lovely. As a mere 60mm, it gave me some cracking views of Saturn too recently with some new equipment I got!

Wish you a lot of fun with it! That little thing can always come with you! 

Piero

[BGazing]

interesting read in light of my desire to get a ts 70mm ed. thank you for the list of observations, piero.

[iPeace]

RANT ALERT - you have been warned.

"Not recommended as your first telescope. Or your second telescope. Or your only telescope."

How often I have read words to that effect regarding the TV-60. And the advice is certainly sound. And hard to ignore, if you take your preliminary research into this pastime seriously. Even those who own one and absolutely love it say so: it shouldn't be your first or only scope.

And so it goes. Even if you scrupulously figure out that you don't want to have to cool or collimate, that you are drawn to wide-field, lunar and planetary views, that your average viewing conditions won't justify huge magnifications and that you don't want a large, heavy scope or mount - because it's the scope you actually use that will show you the most - you're convinced on the available evidence, every bit of it provided in good faith, that a TV-60 can't possibly suffice. So maybe someday you'll own one, and love it, but not quite yet. First you must embark on your self-imposed rite of passage, involving figuring out the minimum aperture, size and weight you can thrive on. Heigh-ho.

That's a version of part of my own story, anyway. There is a point to this. Having finally (and not without the intervention of providence) acquired my own TV-60, having enjoyed it to the fullest possible extent over that period (there will always be clouds) and having inevitably confirmed that which I suspected all along, my point is this:

It ain't necessarily so.

It shouldn't be your first or only scope, unless… you are like me.

Hardly a desirable condition in certain respects, but with regard to astronomy, it means that your profile might be summarized as follows.

You really enjoy using binoculars. The freedom to sweep across the sky, adopting the most comfortable position to take in the magic of the wide-field views, is most compelling. Image-stabilized binoculars are ideal, but a monopod or lightweight tripod also happily provides for viewing stability without undue constraint. After all, such a mount can be easily and instantly adjusted to the most comfortable height, which is as it should be. Now, if only the magnification could be raised a bit when gazing at the Moon, or to get a nice crisp view of Saturn or Jupiter - nothing extravagant, just nice rings and bands. Faint fuzzies? They have their place, and are fun to find, but one is very much like another and not worth lingering on, not with so many stars out there. And whatever you use for observing should be able to travel with you everywhere and otherwise keep quiet and out of sight. And not require any significant time to take out or put away.

I could go on, but those so inclined should be getting the basic picture.

To be clear: taking the long way round has been fun and enlightening, no loss at all. And I love my TV-85 and intend to keep it. And those who insist that 60mm is just not enough aperture for one's main scope are justifiably correct.

Once again: those who advise against the TV-60 as a first or only scope are not wrong.

But if you're out there thinking that a small, lightweight scope with excellent optics - notwithstanding all its "aperturial" limitations - seems like so much more fun than, well, any other option, then you are not alone.

And - if you're like me - you may well be right.

[Piero]

Nice post Mike!  

I share your feelings about a short 60mm refractor like the TV60 and for me this was my first serious telescope that was used to learn and how to find about 250 DSOs.

It is often said that beginners need as much "wow" as possible in the beginning for getting fond of this hobby. Therefore, dark skies and aperture kick in. A short widec field refractor takes a different direction though: it makes star hopping easy. Although something is inevitably lost in view quality, one can learn many important concepts (e.g. star hopping, image scale, surface brightness, resolution, etc) directly and with fun. 

For me the TV60 has been a great companion. Although it hasn't been used since I got the Tak-100 (of course!), there are aspects of this 60mm that are unique, like extreme portability and usability. 

A pair of good binoculars can be better at low power, no doubt, but leaves one with the desire of magnifying a bit more to me. A 60mm refractor allows that. 

 

The only thing of the TV60 I am not a great fan is the focuser. It works fine, but I'd have preferred a more standard focuser like the one fitting the Tak-60. 

[scarp15]

In-between you two guys with a TV-76, I agree with all the comments. A short wide field refractor has a very prominent place, though not necessarily as an only or even first scope. Visual astronomy may be more fully regarded when combined along with a 8-10" dobsonian and pair of binoculars. My TV-76 along with my other scopes and for the usual reasons, hasn't been outside for a good while, though for its portability and ease of use I have in mind a few planned outings that may transpire.  

[DRT]

I love my TV-60   ?

• Ultra portable ✓
• Brilliant wide-field views ✓
• Spotting scope ✓
• White light solar ✓
• Full disk Ha with Quark ✓
• Bling Finder scope ✓

[Chris]

I must have missed this thread first time around but I'm glad I've read it now. A very well written and illustrated report Piero

I also enjoyed Mike's post. Busy family life plus not knowing how long the clear gap will last means my 10x50 bins are my most used optic. Having said this a small apo does solve many down sides of a binos, i.e.  I'll always get neck strain from straight through viewing, and It's limiting and less fun to be stuck at 10x for example. 

I've been eyeing up the new WO61 for some time now but managed to resist so far, and it has crossed my mind if I have sufficient IPD to stick two WO61's together to form a small apo bino with comfy 90 degree viewing....I'm thinking that would be quite a thing!    

[Piero]

The WO61 seems a nice little telescope. I'd be curious to look through one!  

[Chris]

6 minutes ago, Piero said:

The WO61 seems a nice little telescope. I'd be curious to look through one!  

Ditto, me too  

[Stu]

My small frac journeys have taken me through:

William Optics ZS SD66mm

TV76

TV85

Tak FS-60C

Tak FC-76DC

Stellarvue ED80

Tak Sky 90

Vixen 80M x 2

Carton 60mm...

 

but never a TV60! I imagine they are very similar to the FS-60C, although probably a little bit more portable. I did like the FeatherTouch I had on the Tak, probably one reason why I would have another.

The key point though is that a high quality 60mm scope is capable of showing a remarkable amount under a dark sky, and is so much easier to get under one!!