Jump to content

Narrowband

May i offer up a suggestion to SGL?


LukeSkywatcher

Recommended Posts

In the spirit of equality and all.

As a disabled person i have noticed over the time ive been here very many posts are by people with a physical disability (or they know someone with one). I think it would be a great idea to have a dedicated section here on SGL for people with any physical disability to be able to talk and exchange thoughts and ideas.

You could call it "Observing with a Disability ", or something similar which would be non-offensive to us physically challenged folk.

It really would not be more than a social group which already exists in the "community" part of the forum.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 37
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Oddly, I never think of myself as disabled. I'm a tad ambivalent about a dedicated disabled section. Since I became disabled I have discovered that a lot of hostility is directed at disabled people. I don't really know why either. I think a dedicated forum section is an interesting idea though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

.........talk and exchange thoughts and ideas........

Isn't that the reason for a forum like this in the first place?
Do you really need to be segregated or single yourself  as  being disabled, unless it affects your ability to use a piece of equipment?  I'm sure the right word in a post would still allow others to answer any questions accordingly,  if you mentioned any difficulties?
I know several folk ( outside this forum ) who just want to be treated like anyone else, despite their disability, and not grouped into any category or section. I'm not angry or offended by your idea, just my  point of view.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Mak the Night said:

Oddly, I never think of myself as disabled. I'm a tad ambivalent about a dedicated disabled section. Since I became disabled I have discovered that a lot of hostility is directed at disabled people. I don't really know why either. I think a dedicated forum section is an interesting idea though.

I used crutches for about 30 yrs of my life. Its only in the last 10 yrs or so that i use a wheelchair. I find that in a wheelchair that i get more "respect" or "acceptance" from society than i ever did when i used crutches. I dont know why you feel a lot of hostility towards disabled people where you live. Ive travelled around the world over the last 20 yrs or so and never once felt any hostility.......in fact i have found that in every country i have been to that people bend over backwards to help me.

I think a dedicated disabled thread would be a great idea.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally although able bodied, I'd think it a bit unnecessary to have a specific section for disabled observers. We are all equal on here and hopefully you agree and don't feel in any way 'second class'. That said, I think a thread with hints and tips relaying how people with disabilities get around their specific needs and yet still enjoy and are successful at astronomy would be a grand idea. Something akin to 'show us your adaptive modifications for easy of use' :icon_biggrin:

That said, it's my personal view so I'll pass the suggestion 'downstairs' and report what they think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

I used crutches for about 30 yrs of my life. Its only in the last 10 yrs or so that i use a wheelchair. I find that in a wheelchair that i get more "respect" or "acceptance" from society than i ever did when i used crutches. I dont know why you feel a lot of hostility towards disabled people where you live. Ive travelled around the world over the last 20 yrs or so and never once felt any hostility.......in fact i have found that in every country i have been to that people bend over backwards to help me.

I think a dedicated disabled thread would be a great idea.

 

 

Maybe I'm just noticing a hostility from some people as it's only comparatively recently that I became disabled. I was in a powered wheelchair in a hospital for about three months as I learned to talk and walk again. I need a stick to walk now mainly. As the right side of my body is partially paralysed I can't actually walk more than a few metres. However, I am making a lot of progress in physiotherapy and hope to make much more progress in time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Moonshane said:

Personally although able bodied, I'd think it a bit unnecessary to have a specific section for disabled observers. We are all equal on here and hopefully you agree and don't feel in any way 'second class'. That said, I think a thread with hints and tips relaying how people with disabilities get around their specific needs and yet still enjoy and are successful at astronomy would be a grand idea. Something akin to 'show us your adaptive modifications for easy of use' :icon_biggrin:

Whilste i agree.There are certain limitations 

 

36 minutes ago, Moonshane said:

Personally although able bodied, I'd think it a bit unnecessary to have a specific section for disabled observers. We are all equal on here and hopefully you agree and don't feel in any way 'second class'. That said, I think a thread with hints and tips relaying how people with disabilities get around their specific needs and yet still enjoy and are successful at astronomy would be a grand idea. Something akin to 'show us your adaptive modifications for easy of use' :icon_biggrin:

I agree to a degree. Thee is however a degree of separation on how disabled people observe compared to able bodied people. Yes we are all equal mentally........but we do have differences physically. I by no way feel like a 2nd citizen........

There are just aspects of observing that only a physically disabled person knows about and would perhaps like to discuss with like minded people. Its not a case of being different (or even 2nd class citizens, does anyone these days still think like that)...........Its just we tend to do things differently and any help for each other can only be a good thing.

If i start such a thread dedicated to disabled astronomers, where should i put it?. I'd like to do it instead of a dedicated section and see how it goes.

The Astro Lounge or getting started with observing or other?

I'd realy like for it to a "sticky" somewhere on SGL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes we are all equal mentally........but we do have differences physically.

Not necessarily as some disabilities are hidden :)

There's no reason not to have a thread to discuss helpful hints/tips etc for those who find observing challenging physically. I'm not sure there'd be enough to talk about for an entire section; though that would be up to admin to decide.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could be interesting to have a dedicated section somewhere on the forum, that would specifically provide members who wish to debate, advise on circumstances, issues, solutions and experiences. regarding disability and astronomy, in addition to becoming a social network. Anyone of us at any time could encounter such a life changing circumstance. Greater transparency concerning disability in all circumstances is positive, inclusive and accepting.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unless there was a popular demand with specific tangible benefits that can't otherwise be met, I see no reason for separating any particular group out of the general community. In this day and age of equality I think it would be a negative move.

I'm all for making provision where it's genuinely needed but, no offence, I just can't see what you're after here Paul, other than separation for  separation's sake. Maybe I'm missing something? :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, brantuk said:

Unless there was a popular demand with specific tangible benefits that can't otherwise be met, I see no reason for separating any particular group out of the general community. In this day and age of equality I think it would be a negative move.

I'm all for making provision where it's genuinely needed but, no offence, I just can't see what you're after here Paul, other than separation for  separation's sake. Maybe I'm missing something? :) 

I'm am by no meaning to  seek  differences between able -bodied people and disabled people. Just no one can deny that we both do astronomy differently

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

I'm am by no meaning to  seek  differences between able -bodied people and disabled people. Just no one can deny that we both do astronomy differently

You're right - I certainly can't deny that. But I see a big downside for you in that a lot of able bodied folks might avoid such a section thinking it's "not for them". Whereas disabled folks would gravitate towards it automatically separating themselves. I'd prefer to keep everyone together where we can all get varied opinions and advice from the whole community. We all have a lot to offer each other, and I wouldn't like to see that disappear.

I've seen this happen at Kelling where the deaf folks club always set up together in adjacent pitches forming their own enclave. I always make time to get a little involved with them each year, they do some very interesting astronomy, and it lets them know they're part of the wider community despite their disability - I even learned a little sign language. But I can count on one hand, the others who do the same. Worth thinking about....? :)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, brantuk said:

 

Honestly Brant (no disrespect....we agree on most things).......i dont care much for able-bodied peoples opinions on this matter. How us physically challenged do astronomy is very different to able-bodied folk. I really just want to get a thread going where people with a disability can feel comfortable to discuss such. There are areas of SGL that i dont visit because dont care for them. Likewise..........if anyone cares not to read a thread for disabled people........they dont have to.......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

Honestly Brant (no disrespect....we agree on most things).......i dont care much for able-bodied peoples opinions on this matter. How us physically challenged do astronomy is very different to able-bodied folk. I really just want to get a thread going where people with a disability can feel comfortable to discuss such. There are areas of SGL that i dont visit because dont care for them. Likewise..........if anyone cares not to read a thread for disabled people........they dont have to.......

Please consider what you are saying here... For example there are a lot of very capable engineers in SGL who could potentially offer some innovative solutions to people to make their astronomy experience easier saying you "don't care much for able-bodies people's opinions" on these matters is perhaps missing out on some valuable knowledge and expertise?

The flip side is also true - there may be ideas from physically challenged people that could benefit able-bodied astronomers as well that might get missed if posted in a separate section that people might feel excluded from or irrelevant to them because of its section title.

I think these types of discussions already fit within existing areas of SGL and I would sincerely hope people feel they can post such discussions within SGL already. For me that is the true way of showing equality - not creating a special area of SGL.

If any of these threads become definitive and useful enough as resources to make sticky then please let a moderator know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rather than segregate disabled people, why not openly discuss any difficulties a person might be having? That way those of us who are able bodied will gain a greater understanding of problems that may arise.

I would be concerned that only the disabled would go on a disabled forum, and thereby disabled individuals would miss out on the wealth of knowledge and advice that would come from a broader community. Disabled members should not shy away from discussing any problems they may be facing, after all, isn't that what forums are for, so that we can help each other along in our fantastic hobby?

Mike  :happy11:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not being disabled myself, I'm not sure I am able to judge the need/merits of a specialist 'disabled astronomy' section, although I can see that there must be a multitude of issues that would affect numerous practical observing and imaging activities.

Michael (Mr Spock)'s idea of someone starting a thread in the 'observing - discussion' section sounds like an excellent starting point.  If it proves popular then perhaps promoting it to a 'sticky' post sounds like a sensible logical next progression.  Any future discussion on promoting it to full forum section could then be informed by the popularity of that sticky post.  Does that sound like a logical way forward?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Paul's idea has merit.  A lot of comments against have, I believe, missed the point by raising false concerns over equality and that somehow a specialist thread, such as as Paul is suggesting, would somehow act to alienate either disabled or able bodied  members.  Firstly, and Paul please correct me if I am wrong here, the all to often raised claim of "we must have equality" is a false ambition.  There is no equality - equality of what in any respect, it is certainly not in the challenges experienced between able and disabled observers.  And that is what I believe Paul is raising.  All he has asked for is a dedicated thread in which members who may be sharing the same/similar physical challenges have a place for open and free exchange of ideas, thoughts, opinions and shared experiences.  He is not suggesting any form of exclusion or segregation - there are after all no such locked forums in SGL.  Anyone would be able to access and participate on such a thread, any exclusion or segregation would therefore be self imposed.  Secondly, the claim that such a thread would somehow deny contributors to the thread from experiencing the rich field of information, ideas and advice available across other SGL treads simply does not simply stack up.  I suspect most users of SGL have their favorite sections anyway and rarely visit others outside their field of interest.  So there is no compulsion on anyone to read or ignore any section of SGL - now on that issue  there is equality.  The acid test to Paul's idea would be in its use. Maybe as has been suggested Paul, you should start with a thread in the Observing section and see if it gains traction.  If there is enough interest and diversity of content then maybe Admin may consider something more prominent.

 

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would be a little concerned about having a separate section for members with disabilities as an important part of my life was spent running a PHAB club (Physically Handicapped Able Bodied), the whole premise of which was to ensure that as much as we could, physically/mentally handicapped people were not segregated from 'able bodied' people in society. I rather feel that a separate section would have negative vibes as SGL aims to be a very inclusive forum.

We all have much to learn from one another despite our 'differences'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quite agree with the above comments by Micheal and Jim. Equality is not a principle factor in determining this. Paul is simply asking for a dedicated thread that would provide specific support, advice and encouragement to current and new members, who may require information and accessibility to this hobby. It is just another strand or facet to the broad spectrum of forum provision. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I run a small "cultural centre" in Chile. Among our activities are a club for the disabled, health/lifestyle classes for senior citizens, and creative workshops for patients from the local psychiatric hospital. My observations are that some projects take off at once, others take months or even years to develop, and others quietly get forgotten! Many projects change significantly over time from the initial idea, responding to demand.

So my advice to Paul would be to go right ahead and start the thread he is imagining. Maybe if there is sufficient interest, it will become a "sticky", maybe it will even become a sub-forum based on real response. Or, maybe it will just fade away suggesting that this concern is better covered in existing areas of the forum.

You never know until you try!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.