Bresser Scopes (152mm Mak)?

[parallaxerr]

Hi all,

Having felt the need for a planetary scope of late and something that will get me in closer to some smaller DSO's, I've been looking at 150mm Maks. I came across the Bresser MC152 (http://www.bresser.de/en/Astronomy/Messier-MC-152-Hexafoc-Optical-Tube-Assembly.html) which looks interesting due to its focuser setup. It has the Hexafoc R&P fitted as standard, negating the requirement to upgrade to a Crayford, as so often is the case with the SW Skymax 150. There is also a dual speed conversion available for all Hexafoc focusers (https://www.astromarket.org/telescopen/newton-reflector/bresser/gear-set-110-for-messier-hex-focuser?language=en).

I really like the idea of this scope on an AZ-EQ6 along side a short tube 6" frac .....In the mean time it should be usable with my Nexstar 8SE mount.

There seems to be very little information available regarding this scope other than the usual specs. I almost get the feeling it's new to the market, certainly a few distributors list it as "coming soon". Does anyone have any hands on experience with it? I assume the mirror is fixed due to the focuser arrangement (other than collimation adjustment) which appeals to me as I'm a frac fan that enjoys a robust scope...

Further, does anyone have anything to say about Bresser scopes in general. I have read some favourable reviews of their 127mm achromat frac and that they are linked to Meade in some way?

 

 

[baggywrinkle]

I had their 15smm refractor with the same helical gear focuser. It was pretty good and optics were excellent for an APO. I sold it on becuase I aquired an Altair Astro 152 mm frac which has a shorter tube and faster optics.

The Bresser was certainly solid and well built.

If I have a criticsim it is the fitting for the finder scope. It is a Bresser only fitting so you cannot use other 3rd party finders.

[Ricochet]

I've not seen the Mak but I've got the 8" Dob and it's a great piece of kit. The Hexafoc is absolutely solid with no sort of play or slop and the difference in quality between it and the focuser on the SW Dobs was probably what swayed my decision. There is no compression ring in the 2" to 1.25" adaptor though which does let it down a bit and so I did replace that.

I believe the finder shoe on the Mak is actually a Bresser/Explore Scientific/Meade shoe as they're part of the same group of companies.

[parallaxerr]

Good to know the focuser is up to scratch, sounds like it could be quite nice with the dual speed mod. I'm also eyeing up the AR152S to sit along side for widefield and dso.

I had noticed the finder shoe, I'll have to do some research in to what's available to fit. I currently use a green laser for goto alignment then I don't need a finder for the rest of the session so it's not a major issue.

I'm finding the Mak harder to resist now there's stock available!

[John]

I've not used that particular mak-cassegrain but the finder looks very similar to the design that Meade used on their AR5 and AR6 refractors. When I had a Bresser refractor with that finder shoe, I removed it and replaced it with one that is compatible with Skwatcher / Vixen type finders which gives you more options.

Don't forget to get a dew shield if you go for the mak-cassegrain - you will need one !

 

 

[Mark at Beaufort]

This certainly looks an interesting Mak/Cass and has some improvements over the Skywatcher. I certainly like the tube rings which the Skywatcher does not have. I had the Skywatcher 180mm Mak/Cass and I did not like the fact that the dovetail was attached to the main body with two bolts. The focuser also appears to be an improvement although it would be good to see it in action.

Its advertised on the Telescope House website showing 20 available although it shows the cost in Euros. Perhaps Telescope House will have it available on show at Astrofest in early February - nice if they did.

http://www.telescope.house/en/Brand/Bresser/Messier-MC-152-Hexafoc-Optical-Tube-Assembly.html?listtype=search&searchparam=4852190#

 

[ollypenrice]

Until now the only Bresser scopes I've seen, and the one I still own, were simply Skywatcher re-brands. (I have the 6 inch F8 Achromat on which the only 'Bresser' feature is the paint.)

In this case there seems to have been a deliberate intention to vary the specification. It certaily looks like an attractive package.

Won't Synta be the manufacturing common denominator here?

Olly

[John]

I've seen the same optical tube under a number of brandings over the years. I don't think it's a new design. Here is what I think is the same optical tube under Opticstar branding:

http://www.opticstar.com/Run/Astronomy/Astro-Telescopes-Opticstar.asp?p=0_10_1_1_210

Notice here that they have used the more familliar focus knob / moving primary approach with a dovetail bar bolted to the tube whereas Bresser have gone for an add on crayford focuser, presumably with the primary locked in place, and tube rings / dovetail for mounting.

The things that Bresser have added are the sort of upgrades that owners often make to these scopes to overcome focuser and mounting limitations in the base design.

 

[nightfisher]

This Maksutov looks to be a superb instrument, i would be interested to see what you think if you commit to getting ne

[parallaxerr]

On ‎29‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 22:38, John said:

 I removed it and replaced it with one that is compatible with Skwatcher / Vixen type finders which gives you more options.

 

 

That's sorted then, I see plenty of Skywatcher style shoes available with varying hole configurations. Did you have to do any drilling?

On ‎30‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 09:44, Mark at Beaufort said:

This certainly looks an interesting Mak/Cass and has some improvements over the Skywatcher. I certainly like the tube rings which the Skywatcher does not have. I had the Skywatcher 180mm Mak/Cass and I did not like the fact that the dovetail was attached to the main body with two bolts. The focuser also appears to be an improvement although it would be good to see it in action.

Its advertised on the Telescope House website showing 20 available although it shows the cost in Euros. Perhaps Telescope House will have it available on show at Astrofest in early February - nice if they did.

http://www.telescope.house/en/Brand/Bresser/Messier-MC-152-Hexafoc-Optical-Tube-Assembly.html?listtype=search&searchparam=4852190#

 

All the same reasons it caught my eye, especially as the dovetail shoe on the 8SE mount is at 90 degrees to the norm. It's a shame I can't make astrofest, I may have to commission someone who's attending to track this scope down!

On ‎30‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 10:12, ollypenrice said:

Until now the only Bresser scopes I've seen, and the one I still own, were simply Skywatcher re-brands. (I have the 6 inch F8 Achromat on which the only 'Bresser' feature is the paint.)

In this case there seems to have been a deliberate intention to vary the specification. It certaily looks like an attractive package.

Won't Synta be the manufacturing common denominator here?

Olly

I think you're right Olly, having compared the specs of this scope and other Bresssers with the equivalent Syntas, the numbers stack up.

On ‎30‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 10:53, John said:

 

The things that Bresser have added are the sort of upgrades that owners often make to these scopes to overcome focuser and mounting limitations in the base design.

 

Exactly, cheaper than modding a Skymax to the same spec too!

On ‎30‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 16:26, nightfisher said:

This Maksutov looks to be a superb instrument, i would be interested to see what you think if you commit to getting ne

Well it's top of the spend list now and the budget is nearly there. I just have a house move to work around then I think it'll be on order asap

[Dave In Vermont]

My new 150mm Skywatcher F12 has the two-bolts on the mounting-rail. These are held in place by nuts inside the tube. I'm not concerned they would give way - even with many added pounds of gear in the side-saddle configuration I have it mounted.  As for the shoe for the finder, I swapped out the striaght-through for a GSO RACI. The shoe is the same. As for the focuser.....

I have installed a dual 1:10 GSO Crayford. No added adapter-ring was needed. It's a standard SCT 2" thread now.

I'm a happy-camper!

Dave

[John]

1 hour ago, parallaxerr said:

.....That's sorted then, I see plenty of Skywatcher style shoes available with varying hole configurations. Did you have to do any drilling?

 

No, I used a finder foot that was intended for SCT's. One of these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Orion-Schmidt-Cassegrain-Finder-Scope-Base/dp/B0000XMY4C

The slots where the fastening screws go allowed the finder shoe to bolt straight on using the screw holes that the previous finder base had used.

[parallaxerr]

Oops...

[nightfisher]

please post some pics and a first light report when you get it

[parallaxerr]

8 hours ago, nightfisher said:

please post some pics and a first light report when you get it

I certainly will. Just received shipping confirmation & tracking number so will be glued to DHL's website for the next two days!

[John]

I wonder if the Bresser design works at full aperture ?. The Synta / Skywatcher mak-cassegrains effective aperture is a bit less than stated due to their primary mirror being a little smaller than it really needs to be.

 

[parallaxerr]

8 minutes ago, John said:

I wonder if the Bresser design works at full aperture ?. The Synta / Skywatcher mak-cassegrains effective aperture is a bit less than stated due to their primary mirror being a little smaller than it really needs to be.

 

Good question John, I see you discussed this issue in a thread many moons ago.

The following statement makes sense and it will be interesting to see how the Bresser measures up...

"The central obstruction on the "127mm" Mak is about 40mm (the mirrored spot is 38mm but the baffle behind is slightly larger). The clear aperture of the 'scope is 120mm (and this size is what Synta and co would describe this 'scope as being if they weren't indulging in naughty marketing). A Maksutov corrector (front glass) diverges the incoming light rays, so the primary mirror needs to be bigger than the corrector in order to receive all the light. On the Synta "127mm" Mak the mirror is the same size as the corrector (127mm), so it is only receiving light from the central 120mm of the corrector."

 

Looking at pictures alone, it would appear that the OTA diameter of the Bresser could house a primary larger than the corrector, unlike the Skywatchers whose correctors appear to populate the majority of the OTA's inner diameter.

[Wilhelmus]

Nice scope! Just wondering about the focuser, is it all in metal or do they use  plastik?

[Ricochet]

There is a very small plastic ring at the end of the fixed tube for purely cosmetic reasons but everything structural is metal. 

[parallaxerr]

Well I just got off the phone to ParcelForce as my scope appears to have been sat at their "national hub" for two days. I was told it would be processed over the weekend and sent out for delivery next week...

2 minutes later, this arrives at work  Go figure.

Anyway, who cares now, got a new scope to play with!

[happy-kat]

that lovely unboxing moment, enjoy your new scope

[nightfisher]

Have you had a chance to set up and take a look with this new scope yet?

[parallaxerr]

On ‎15‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 05:51, nightfisher said:

Have you had a chance to set up and take a look with this new scope yet?

Yes! I'll keep it brief and bullet point for reasons that will become clear towards the end.

Initial impressions: Quality of finish

• OTA finish good. Deep gloss shine to white paint.
• Tube ring/s arrangement very rigid although not quite parallel and apparently not able to adjust. Nicely lined.
• Lens cap - aluminium with felt lining but loose enough that it will fall off under it's own weight if pointed down.
• Optics - VERY dusty and a dry rubber chalky effect around meniscus. Also the retaining ring has some bad English - "Fully Multi-Coatings".
• Diagonal - lightweight plastic and full of particulate.
• Finder scope - didn't even open the bag. Ultra light weight, flimsy plastic.

Observation:

• The inner tube leading to the focuser is tapered. I have read about the vignetting issues with some SW Maks due to the edge light cut-off of this tube, perhaps this is Bressers solution allowing the light from the secondary to diverge to the full diameter of the focuser.

First Light:

Now, I am nowhere near as experienced as a lot of members here, so I can't get too technical. This scope just had to perform well and the image "look" good to satisfy me. I bought a Mak as a planet killer and it HAD to perform to justify the cost. I mounted it up on my Nexstar SE mount and left to cool for about an hour and a half, just inside the garage with the door open.

Once dinner was out of the way I headed outside and set up. I used a 2" dielectric diagonal and my MKIII Hyperion EP. The small FOV became immediately obvious making alignment difficult and star identification was initially confusing due to the dim image. Some call it high contrast but to me it looked dim, I couldn't even make out the edge of the FOV the image was so dark.

Once aligned, with the moon not yet visible, I turned to a few DSO's in the hope that, despite the long FL, the extra aperture would offer good views. Immediately I was disappointed, double-cluster, Andromeda & Orion Nebula were all far dimmer than in my 80ED.

The Moon came into view later and this is where I thought the Mak would excel. Unfortunately not. The first and most noticeable issue was the field of view. I am not experienced enough to know if this was an exit-pupil or vignetting issue or whatever but unless my eye was bang on axis and very close to the EP, I could see nothing. Changing the EP FL helped a bit although interestingly, the supplied EP was the worst by far.

When I could see, the image was of course very large and the available "zoom" with my MKIII Hyperion was impressive but at no point was I satisfied with the focus. I didn't expect focus snap due to the long FL but it just never "came in", even working away at the additional 10:1 focus knob. The contrast was good though and there was obviously no false colour.

I later turned to Jupiter and was sorely disappointed. Despite being relatively low in the sky I knew I should be seeing better. A back to back test with my 80ED confirmed this with the Frac clearly out performing the Mak. Back and forth I went trying to improve the view in the Mak but it was nowhere near as sharp or detailed as in the Frac. Maybe on a night of good seeing it would have been better but given my observing habits and available time I doubt I would ever see it.

Finally, due to the weight of the OTA (despite being in the region of a C8), vibration through my mount was chronic. Combined with the need to really work the focuser, this meant I got frustrated with the image shifting all over and gave up.

So to sum up, the combination of a feeling of overall below par quality and performance along with my own mount issues made me think this scope wasn't for me. Above all I believe I was mostly put off by the inherent Mak-ness of the scope. It didn't offer enough of an improvement above and beyond my current scope to justify the cost so it has just landed back with the supplier for a refund and I've headed back to the drawing board..........

[parallaxerr]

A few pics

1. The dry/chalky rubber seal around the meniscus

2. Tapered focuser tube

3. Mounted

[Alkaid]

Very sorry to hear this, you must be pretty angry about the poor quality and bad image. At least you'll get your money back...good call there sending it back.