William Parsons (Lord Rosse) 1800-1867

[jambouk]

Another great name from the history of astronomy, though one I know relatively little about.

I'd seen a drawing of the Dumbbell Nebula by Lord Rosse is in a book recently, and I was impressed at the detail in the form he had been able to resolve (a similar drawing attached). I've only ever seen the Dumbbell through an 11" SCT, but then it was a very small blob, and there was no way I could determine any internal form. So his drawing really blew me away.

A book about the man and the family castle is due to be released in paperback it seems in May, bringing down the price compared to the current hardback edition, so I look forward to getting hold of a copy of that and learning more about him: http://www.amazon.co.uk/William-Parsons-Earl-Rosse-Nineteenth-Century/dp/1784993727/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453650342&sr=8-1&keywords=Earl+of+Rosse

Wikipedia has a very brief outline about him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Parsons,_3rd_Earl_of_Rosse

James

 

[laudropb]

Looks like a must read book. Thanks for the heads up.

[Putaendo Patrick]

Among other telescopes, Lord Rosse built a 72 inch reflector at his estate, Birr Castle, in Ireland. Nicknamed the Leviathan, at the time it was the largest in the world! It has recently been restored.

Above, Rosse supervising the construction. Photo in the collection of the Royal Society. Below, links to Birr Castle and a bit of history:

http://www.birrcastle.com/telescope-astronomy/

http://www.arm.ac.uk/history/birr6.html

http://www.arm.ac.uk/history/Birr/

 

[Putaendo Patrick]

And another rather attractive comtemporary view:

I guess the smaller scope between the house and Leviathan was his grab-and-go.

Link to image is:

[jambouk]

Is that the photo after the restoration? They do dress funny in Ireland

 

 

[Ruud]

Love Rosse, he drew my profile image. It is a sketch of the owl nebula, I think.

I think someone added the pupils later.

[Peter Drew]

Now there was a man with aperture fever! 

[goodricke1]

The issue of vastly wealthy landlords spending huge sums of money on projects like these, while their tenants subsisted on the most meagre of incomes, is a contoversial one in Ireland. But it was what it was I suppose, the clock can't be turned back... Here's another shot from 1885, with the fourth Earl -

 

Leviathan of Parsonstown... by National Library of Ireland on The Commons, on Flickr

 

[Putaendo Patrick]

In defence of Lord Rosse, he was first and foremost a serious scientist, albeit in the context of the 19th century. He was certainly rich, was involved in politics opposing moves towards Irish independence, but he did live in Ireland (as had most of his ancestors since the 16th century) and was acutely aware of Irish problems. By all accounts he gave considerable amounts of money to alleviate the Irish famine (which delayed the use of his great telescope) and provided land and funds to build both Protestant and Catholic churches. He studied mathematics at Oxford and got a First, not easy even then! He was later fellow and president of the Royal Society which included some of the most important scientists of his day, and his peers presented him with the Society's Gold Medal. He was by no means the typical English absentee landlord with vast estates in Ireland who unfortunately were so notorious in this period.

I may well change my opinion on Rosse, but thanks to James I shall be on the look out for this new study!

[Glasspusher]

William Parsons shared a passion for large telescopes with renowned Dublin based instrument maker Thomas Grubb, this was also the case with their sons. When the Grubb company got into trouble it was Charles Parsons, son of William, who came to the rescue of Howard Grubb, son of Thomas. Charles Parsons established the business of Sir Howard Grubb Parsons in Newcastle upon Tyne in 1927. The company went onto produce may major astronomical telescopes for observatories around the world before it's untimely closure in 1985.

You can find out more about Grubb Parsons by visiting my little webpage.   https://sites.google.com/site/grubbparsons/

John

[laudropb]

Thanks for the info John.

[Physopto]

3 hours ago, Glasspusher said:

William Parsons shared a passion for large telescopes with renowned Dublin based instrument maker Thomas Grubb, this was also the case with their sons. When the Grubb company got into trouble it was Charles Parsons, son of William, who came to the rescue of Howard Grubb, son of Thomas. Charles Parsons established the business of Sir Howard Grubb Parsons in Newcastle upon Tyne in 1927. The company went onto produce may major astronomical telescopes for observatories around the world before it's untimely closure in 1985.

You can find out more about Grubb Parsons by visiting my little webpage.   https://sites.google.com/site/grubbparsons/

John

You getting a bit practice in for Thursday then John?

 

[MAN or ASTROMAN]

Yesterdays 'Antiques Roadtrip' programme started off in The Rep. of Ireland,and included a visit to Birr castle and the 'Leviathan'.

The current Lord Rosse discussed the building of the Scope,and explained some of the Scientific work that was carried out there,such as the fourth Earl measuring the temperature of the Moon.

Worth watching on BBC catch up,if you missed it.

[ollypenrice]

I'm delighted to discover the book. Thanks for that.

There is a Lord Rosse Leviathan mirror in the Science Museum. Of course it's speculum metal - which is why having no secondary at 66% reflectivity was a perfectly sound idea. http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/objects/astronomy/1914-370.aspx It's an inspiring sitght.

Olly

Edit, I thought the Leviathan was Herschelian but, looking at the engraving above, it seems to be Newtonian. Anybody clued up on this?

 

[Stub Mandrel]

On 24/01/2016 at 19:31, Ruud said:

Love Rosse, he drew my profile image. It is a sketch of the owl nebula, I think.

I think someone added the pupils later.

I understand that he drew the pupils - but no-one has ever seen the second one, one source I found gently pointed out that the second star had not been seen since Rosse's day.

 

13 hours ago, Glasspusher said:

William Parsons shared a passion for large telescopes with renowned Dublin based instrument maker Thomas Grubb, this was also the case with their sons. When the Grubb company got into trouble it was Charles Parsons, son of William, who came to the rescue of Howard Grubb, son of Thomas. Charles Parsons established the business of Sir Howard Grubb Parsons in Newcastle upon Tyne in 1927. The company went onto produce may major astronomical telescopes for observatories around the world before it's untimely closure in 1985.

You can find out more about Grubb Parsons by visiting my little webpage.   https://sites.google.com/site/grubbparsons/

John

Thanks for an interesting link. there's also some info on Grace's Guide

[Peter Drew]

Olly. The book "The Leviathan of Parsonstown"(Springer) quotes that Lord Rosse abandoned the Herschellian secondary system in favour of that of Newton.

I have seen the 72" speculum metal mirror in the Science Museum. Very impressive! 

[Ruud]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I understand that he drew the pupils - but no-one has ever seen the second one, one source I found gently pointed out that the second star had not been seen since Rosse's day.

Thanks for that, Neil. I remember that when I downloaded the sketch is was called the Eskimo nebula, but it has to be the Owl. I inverted the blacks and whites of the image and left the pupils as they were.

[Putaendo Patrick]

There's a detailed contemporary book about Rosse's telescopes, The Monster Telescopes, Erected by the Earl of Rosse, Parsonstown: With an Account of the Manufacture of the Specula, and Full Description of All the Machinery Connected with These I,nstruments, first published anonymously in 1844 and later discovered to have been written by Thomas Woods.

It's been reprinted by Cambridge University, but long out of copyright, it's also available as a download-able scan from Google Books:

https://books.google.cl/books/about/The_Monster_Telescopes.html?id=Qh_wOTMr-tsC&redir_esc=y

Some of Lord Rosse's thoughts on Newtonian versus Herschelian telescope designs appeared in comment he made to the British Association in 1851 and published in The Scientific Papers of William Parsons, Third Earl of Rosse 1800-1867 compiled by his son Charles Parsons in 1926 and reprinted recently by Cambridge UP. Sections of this are available on Google Books, and the relevant page is 53.

https://books.google.cl/books?id=5NW704nkVy8C&pg

(Hope these links work as they are for Google Chile!)

The Leviathan did have the built-in option to be used as a Herschelian, Rosse never used it as such preferring the Newtonian option, but others including a certain Mr Hunter did in the 1860s. (page 194).

 

 

 

[ollypenrice]

Thanks PP. You are a mine of information. All this reading will have me wishing for cloudy nights...

I seem to have an engraving in my mind showing an observing platform at the rim of the telescope but I've probably just confused this with one of Hershel's monsters.

Olly

[Peter Drew]

Thanks from me also for the links PP, a most fascinating read.

[jambouk]

There are various videos related to Lord Rosse and the telescope on You Tube, including some animations of how the telescope worked and how the viewing platform moved the observer closer to the eye piece.

James

 

[Putaendo Patrick]

Perhaps the best thing about the Rosse telescopes is that they were financed by his wife, a wealthy heiress from Yorkshire (who incidentally was a very interesting pioneer photographer in her own right). Where did I go wrong?

On Rosse's drawings of Nebulae, there's an interesting paper by Omar W Nasim:

http://www.omarnasim.com/s/Nasim-Observations_Working_Images_and_Procedure-libre.pdf

which makes me want to get hold of Nasim's book Observing by Hand, Sketching the Nebulae in the Nineteenth Century University of Chicago 2013

http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/O/bo16956377.html

[laudropb]

This post has proved to be a mine of information. Thanks to all who have contributed.

[PhotoGav]

Imagine actually trying to use such a beast... You have control over declination, with some effort I guess, but right ascension control is by the Earth's rotation - wait until your target crosses the field of view! Not much GoTo in those days.

 

[Stub Mandrel]

On 24/01/2016 at 23:13, Putaendo Patrick said:

In defence of Lord Rosse, he was first and foremost a serious scientist, albeit in the context of the 19th century. He was certainly rich, was involved in politics opposing moves towards Irish independence, but he did live in Ireland (as had most of his ancestors since the 16th century) and was acutely aware of Irish problems. By all accounts he gave considerable amounts of money to alleviate the Irish famine (which delayed the use of his great telescope) and provided land and funds to build both Protestant and Catholic churches. He studied mathematics at Oxford and got a First, not easy even then! He was later fellow and president of the Royal Society which included some of the most important scientists of his day, and his peers presented him with the Society's Gold Medal. He was by no means the typical English absentee landlord with vast estates in Ireland who unfortunately were so notorious in this period.

I may well change my opinion on Rosse, but thanks to James I shall be on the look out for this new study!

I looked up the report of one of his speeches in Hansard... I wouldn't quite paint him as entirely 'Politically Correct':

"The consequence was that the tenants were long in the possession of the land on the terms of paying only one-third, or perhaps one-half of the value of the rental. The tenants so circumstanced might become rich, and in process of time they might become proprietors of small estates. Such, at least, would be the case in England, where the people directed their industry and guided their conduct with a view to increase their respectability, and to raise themselves and their families in the scale of society. But this excellent feature in the English character was not witnessed in Ireland. He could mention more than a hundred instances where tenants had been so circumstanced, and in not one of those instances had a single tenant raised or tried to raise himself in the scale of civilization. Their practice was, to keep for themselves only half the land, and that half they cultivated in the most imperfect and slovenly manner; and their delight was, to spend all their time in some alehouse, talking politics, and thus, when their leases expired, they were found to be no better off in circumstances. "

(1/4 of me is from Cork, but I'm not about to go around ripping down statues of Lord Rosse...)