Red light rules and motor home

[Moonshane]

= nightmare for observers

[faulksy]

at sgl10 a few people kept locking and unlocking there vehicles which was annoying a lot of people, obviously when you arm or dis arm this sets off the hazards and interior lights. ok its fine at the end of the session but no need when your 4 foot away from your vehicle. just thought i would mention that

[DRT]

Whilst we are having a moan I'd like to mention head torches. Wandering around in the dark with a bright red LED stuck to your forehead that is placed two feet directly in front of other people's eyes when you are talking to them will not win you many friends

Dim and dipped downwards is fine, but full beam is not.

[Psychobilly]

at sgl10 a few people kept locking and unlocking there vehicles which was annoying a lot of people, obviously when you arm or dis arm this sets off the hazards and interior lights. ok its fine at the end of the session but no need when your 4 foot away from your vehicle. just thought i would mention that

I agree...  a lot of modern cars will self lock after a period of time if the keys aren't in the vehicle or at least close to it... also some cars keep quite a few of the electrical subsystems powered up until the car is locked ...

My Disco ran an "admittedly" weak  battery flat  over four days of leaving it unlocked...

So interior light's,  under sill or door lights and Indicators or whatever flashes when it locks/unlocks or the doors are opened need disabling or covering...

Peter...

[cjdawson]

I'll be bringing some electrical tape with me as well as the red stuff.  My plan is a two fold approach.

1. make everything red that'll be used when redlight rules are running (i.e. pretty much all the time that it's not raining)

2. use the electrical tape to darken any red lights that are too bright.

I've got my eye on a couple of lights in my dew heater box before we even think about it.

[Moonshane]

Please bear in mind that any comments are aimed at helping people avoid the annoyance of observers and imagers for basically ruining their experience.

One thing you might be able to do internally is to use or buy a rear (red) bicycle led lamp. this diffuses the light and could be put near the door. then there's no need to turn on any lights as this would provide ample illumination inside the camper.

[Moonshane]

ps, you won't really get any complaints for using white light on nights when it is completely overcast and rainy as this is when the social side really kicks in anyway.

[cjdawson]

d'oh, will add that to my todo list.  Steal both of the back lights off my bike.  can place them inside the motor home and have reflected light to be able to see where the stairs are.

[gazaddy]

+1 for the bike lights , I put one on kitchen work top and one in our conservatory when outside at home. I can see in the house and if wife or kids come down they don't need to turn the house lights on...£1 each - pounds hop. Sorted

[ollypenrice]

I'm puzzled by the idea that you need light to go to bed. If, when I slid in beside Monique at five in the morning, I habitually put a light on, I can promise you that I wouldn't be posting this now! 

The less you use lights the less you need them and, once dark adapted on a properly clear night, you don't need them at all. Starlight is light and is remarkably plentiful.

As for cars, phones, washing machines, bread makers, tooth brushes and almost anything else electrical there seems to be an assumption amongst manufacturers that you want them to flash and squeak at every stage of their cycle. I don't know about you but I don't.

Olly

[DRT]

I'm puzzled by the idea that you need light to go to bed. If, when I slid in beside Monique at five in the morning, I habitually put a light on, I can promise you that I wouldn't be posting this now! 

I entirely agree - I get enough grumbles from Jo about going to bed late with cold feet that I wouldn't even think about putting a light on!

...and it's why I often wake up on the couch after a late night observation session

[Mr Spock]

I have a small red torch, and a faint one at that. It's all I need inside and, when properly dark adapted and outside, I don't really need that. It's more than enough to get ready for bed.

[RichM63]

Good grief, I've read every post so far, and previously did not realize how topical this could be.

My initial reaction to the first post in the thread was 'why do you need lights at all, thus turn them off'. I live in a very dark location and it is suprising how quickly star light will allow wandering around.

Where ever I plonk my mount on my land, I have during the day ensured that there are no evident pit falls twixt me and the telescope.

I suppose that with a Camper Van covering the windows and ensuring that the interior door light does not come on when entering would be good, plus parking such that the side door is facing away from the observing people.

Anyhow, I'll now go and do my Mr Bean and walk into a Cow (that despite my earlier plan 'moved'!).

Best to you all, and jealousy that you have the SGL event to attend.

Rich

[daz]

I suspect we are more jealous of you in dark Brittany skies Rich!!

Especially as it's persisting down again....

[astronymonkey]

I tend to set up with everything to hand ready for when I go to bed. If im in a tent then I just use my red head torch and never any white light unless its raining. I have a real gripe about people who use bright computer screens or white lights in tents.

If I take the caravan then I make sure all of the curtains are tightly closed, a sheet of foil is tucked in the fly screen benith the sky light and I have a lamp with a red bulb from an electric fire if I need a ljght on inside.

Cheers

[cjdawson]

I'm puzzled by the idea that you need light to go to bed. 

Firstly, I'm not sure if I will need night or not. At home, I know that I can walk around my house without needing to turn the lights on.  However, this will be the first time I've hired a motorhome.  The territory is unfamiliar hence the desire to want light.

I get that some people can get by quiet happily without having light as they are getting changed to sleep.  However, I'm not one of those people and whilst that is certainly something that I'd be willing to attempt as plan A, I'd need Plan B in order to make sure that I'm healthy enough to be able to get involved in the observing on the second night.   I'm sure that noone will appreciate the blue lights, or white lights from the ambulance that comes to pick up my broken body after I've fallen whilst trying to climb into the bed in the motorhome that I'm unfamilier with at 3 am and broken an arm/leg.

[DRT]

My experience of motor homes is that there is rarely enough room to swing a cat, never mind fall over and break an arm

If you have a small red torch/bike light to help you find stuff whilst observing that will double up as an adequate Plan B inside the motor home.

[Adrian Condon]

Hi,

I have just purchased one of those new "fandango" lights.

It's a Helix Backcountry Lantern from Tring Astro Centre.

http://www.tringastro.co.uk/princeton-tec-astro-friendly-helix-backcountry-lantern-9956-p.asp

It looks like a moonlander, you swipe it one way for white light and the other way for red light. Then you can press it to reduce/increase the brightness of either the red or white light.

It is meant to run for hours on a set of batteries, about 32 hours on 3 AAA batteries.

You can even find it in the dark, because it has a luminous surface that glows in the dark.

I hope to try it out at the Autumn Galloway Star Party.

Incidentally, I agree a head torch can be a nuisance, when walking around after dark, I take the torch off my head and carry it in my hand switched off until I need to use it.

I also have a spare whitelight  torch in my left hand coat pocket and a spare redlight torch in my right hand pocket.

Cheers

Adrian

[SteveWolves]

Aidrian be carefull of glow in the dark stuff it is usually greeny light.

I do find lots of people with very bright red lights are getting more common, the last thing you want is some fool shining one in your eyes when you have spent some time getting your eyes dark adapted, I should not encourage such beacons at a party.

Having spare lights can be usefull but I have one that starts up white and needs another button push to get to red, it can be a pain so I would reccomend all getting or making just a red torch and not walking arround with it on to the annoyance of all of us that manage to see in very low light levels, if you always use a torch then you never really get fully adapted.

[Skipper Billy]

I dont think I am ever going to be able to go to a star party since I changed my car !

My new Audi Q7 lights up like the Starship Enterprise when I walk up to it or walk away from it - the myriad of completely unnecessary LED lights both inside and outside stay on for 60 seconds !!

To the OP - red gaffer tape both dims and reddens light fittings and the cheap brands are usually not so sticky allowing easy removal before you hand it back.

[Physopto]

The problem of lights be they red or otherwise is not easy to settle.

I completely agree that we should only use red lights when the weather is good for imaging or viewing. At other times we often can use white lights. Problems arise as I see it as to when viewing stops. By this I mean at what point is the view poor enough to stop everyone from looking at the night sky. At the Star Camps I go to we all seem to agree and it goes well. Especially when it starts raining/snowing.

The abundance of different red lights now means that what is good for one person is not necessarily good for another. I tend to use a fairly dim single red led head lamp for just checking things out, or as Adrian has said, like him I also use a torch pointed at the ground for wandering around the camps, with a red film fitted over the end 

There has to be room for all abilities.

Some might say that they do not need a bright red light, but then not all of us have perfect eyesight or as we get older the eyes deteriorate and our ability to see in poorer light suffers.  I am at now at stage, when I need to check out wiring or some other bit on my scope and mount, I find I need more light. I have a brighter red led head torch specifically for that. I am sure that I am not alone in that requirement.

As has happened to nearly every one I am sure, at times we are caught out. Some one walks up and says "Hello" when you are busy and you look up forgetting the head lamp is on, or you just plain forget it is on as you walk some where.  I always apologise.

Where I get a bit cross to say the least is when people insist on accessing a car during a dark clear night and have not blanked out or switched off their lights.  I was once at Dewrent Reservoir when a chap pulled up next to me and proceeded to use his car front seat with internal lighting blazing away, as a bench to use an  unfiltered laptop.  No polite hints worked,  I gave up and went home, never to return.

At Kielder  we have a very strict RED LIGHT RULE and it is adhered to. This is seen to by the RED LIGHT POLICE (hi Richard   ). It works very well. On very few occasions we need to allow white lights, (emergencies), or when someone arrives late and we all agree it will not be a problem getting them to their spot. The site wardens always ask everyone if it is possible ! Mostly this is done with car or van lights off, following a couple of red light wardens. I see a lot of very enthusiastic astronomers driving all through the night to get to either Kielder or Galloway. Some coming up from London area.

 This is well understood and accommodated as we know they may only have a couple of nights at the camp before they are off back to work.

It comes down to being sensible and respecting the reason we are all there.

Derek

[Physopto]

I dont think I am ever going to be able to go to a star party since I changed my car !

My new Audi Q7 lights up like the Starship Enterprise when I walk up to it or walk away from it - the myriad of completely unnecessary LED lights both inside and outside stay on for 60 seconds !!

To the OP - red gaffer tape both dims and reddens light fittings and the cheap brands are usually not so sticky allowing easy removal before you hand it back.

Got the same car and it is one of those cars that is a nightmare to blank out. I just don't access it at all during the dark hours. I find it easier than getting pelted with big rocks.

Derek

[Adrian Condon]

Hi Derek,

It was Moon rock though!

Cheers

Adrian

[cjdawson]

I picked up a string of red xmas led lights over the festive season.  I think that'll do for the lighting inside the van.  Wouldn't use it outside as they're too bright to use used to mark a boundary or anything like that.

As for outside.  I'm intending to stick with my trusty old Mini Magnight AA and it's built in red filter.  And if that's not good enough, I do have some other lights that I've already added red gels to the inside.  (gives good light, but again may be too bright for normal use)

This just leaves the issue of my iPad and iPhone screens.  The iPhone won't be an issue, as it'll be used for music, and as a phone.  It'll spend most of it's time in my pocket.

As for the iPad, it'll be running SkySafari.  Whilst it has a red light mode, I'm wondering about whether this would be better to add a red filter, or just use the built in red mode.  I'm torn on that, but if I get the filter.  Job done.

I love the idea of the Red light police, and the whole escorting people onto the site with lights out, and yes.   Whilst, I'm thinking about the problem and trying to solve it as best I can.  I love the pragmatic approach that people take.  And if the worst comes to the worst, Can always shout out a white light warning so that you can get the vital piece of kit from a Lights alive Audi, or other car.

[michaelmorris]

With red lights, please remember what I call the three Ds

1. Deep red - any frequencies below around 600nm will start to cause the breakdown of Rhodopsin in the eye
2. Dim - the brighter the red light, the faster Rhodopsin is broken down in the eye
3. pointing Down - this reduces the amount of light reaching other peoples' eyes.

A bright pale red light pointing straight in someone's eye line will do little to protect other people's night vision. 

I must admit two things that get my goat at star parties are -

• people wandering around with bright red head torches shining straight in my eyes (I have occassionally been accidentally guilty of this)
• people using a laptop without a proper deep red filter covering the whole screen.  If you can't use a laptop with a red filter on it, either only use it inside a completely blacked out caravan/motorhome (not a tent) or don't use it at all.

Rant over