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Mak the Night

William Optics Bino Viewers?

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Yes, WO bino limit is 20mm Clear Aperture, and this means it will allow you using eyepeices with max 20mm field stop, and this is when WO bino is in original condition, but it can be Supercharged to allow 24.5mm clear aperture, and using eyepeices with field stop max 24.5mm, which is big improvement.

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Found them all!

All3_zpsavwl0yys.jpg

Snap - I have 3 SW 25mm EPs, and they work ridiculously well in my binoviewer - very enjoyable views ;) I don't see eye to eye with the SW 10mm's, but a pair of TV 15mm plossls give me lovely higher power views >200x in my scopes for Jupiter and Saturn.

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Yes, WO bino limit is 20mm Clear Aperture, and this means it will allow you using eyepeices with max 20mm field stop, and this is when WO bino is in original condition, but it can be Supercharged to allow 24.5mm clear aperture, and using eyepeices with field stop max 24.5mm, which is big improvement.

OK, thanks for the information, I thought that would be the case and there would be a limit to a 66° AFOV. My 68° 19mm Panoptics have a field stop of 21.3mm, just over the 20mm limit, so that makes sense. I'm pretty sure the 20mm SWAN EP's supplied with the WO bino have a 72° AFOV but are limited to 66° in the bino.

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Snap - I have 3 SW 25mm EPs, and they work ridiculously well in my binoviewer - very enjoyable views ;) I don't see eye to eye with the SW 10mm's, but a pair of TV 15mm plossls give me lovely higher power views >200x in my scopes for Jupiter and Saturn.

Strangely, I now have a pair of TV 15mm Plossls.  :grin:

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Interestingly, Scopes'N'Skies have an Antares 1.25" binoviewer and eyepiece set that looks suspiciously like the Celestron bino. It has four EP's (incuding GSO Plossls) and a carrying case included.  

http://www.scopesnskies.com/prod/binoviewer/bino-eyepiece-kit.html

As I now have two TV 15mm Plossls, the WO bino from FLO is still the running favourite though.

Bino%20Twinz%20-%20Copy_zpspsup10sw.jpg

Edited by Mak the Night

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How well  do Bino-viewers fare on a classic (solid tube) 8" reflector?

My guess is you would be disappointed by not being able to bring the image into focus even with the Barlow nosepiece and with the lowest profile focuser available (i.e. not the standard SW one with the 35-50mm 1.25" EP tube). When I get a moment I'll try out the BVs with my SW 150p 750mm Newt although I'm sure other SGL members have done so already. I can use this scope, but only just, with my DSLR at prime focus, having collimated the primary mirror with the screws near one end of their adjustment range to put the mirror as close as possible to the secondary.

I get the feeling that FLO occasionally receive back BVs, under their generous returns policy, from customers who try to use them with fixed tube Newts.

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..........thanks Avocette. I'm still looking and learning, with a few folk suggesting that collapsible Dobs can be 'closed' to some degree in order to get  the correct position for focusing. Maybe the same issue better addresses   DSLR use too?.

The next Dobsonian could well  be a Flextube! Today I'm looking at modding the rear end of my kitchen to accomodate the telescope in its own cupborad. Perhaps I should hold back on the design or just incorporate some  minor modifications?

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few answers to questions above.

Celestron,WO and other "cheap" binoviewers are produced in the same factory in China.

Issue with them is the size of prisms of 23mm and that will limit your ability to use lower magnification eye pieces.Yes you can supercharge them,but thinking of the cost of that,you will be better off investing in binoviewer with larger prisms.And that will roughly come up at the same cost.There have been multiple threads about prism sizes in binoviewers here in SGL,if not,you can read up in Cloudy nights forum ,binoviewer section.

Answer on Charic`s question.You can use binoviewers on practically any telescope,but obviously some adaptations will be required.For solid tube the option is to move the primary mirror up the tube as if not,you will be forced to use high magnification barlow what will limit your observations to planetary only and ONLY at high magnifications.

And from personal experience,i would use Powermate instead of barlow :)

My current binoviewer: Custom built Carl Zeiss with 30mm Zeiss T* coated prisms.

Edited by Dude_with_the_tube
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few answers to questions above.

Celestron,WO and other "cheap" binoviewers are produced in the same factory in China.

Issue with them is the size of prisms of 23mm and that will limit your ability to use lower magnification eye pieces.Yes you can supercharge them,but thinking of the cost of that,you will be better off investing in binoviewer with larger prisms.And that will roughly come up at the same cost.There have been multiple threads about prism sizes in binoviewers here in SGL,if not,you can read up in Cloudy nights forum ,binoviewer section.

Answer on Charic`s question.You can use binoviewers on practically any telescope,but obviously some adaptations will be required.For solid tube the option is to move the primary mirror up the tube as if not,you will be forced to use high magnification barlow what will limit your observations to planetary only and ONLY at high magnifications.

And from personal experience,i would use Powermate instead of barlow :)

My current binoviewer: Custom built Carl Zeiss with 30mm Zeiss T* coated prisms.

The factory they are made in is owned by Kunming Optical.

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/254185-william-optics-bino-viewers/?p=2785499

The 'cheap' binoviewers are all basically the same in performance. I doubt supercharging them would increase the cost to equal something like TeleVue binoviewers but the TeleVue bino's are up to five times the price of the cheap ones to buy. 

I'll think I'll take my chances with a cheap pair of WO bino's first, if I get on with them eventually I'll probably end up buying the TeleVue bino's. 

I really don't think I'll be that disappointed in the WO bino's.

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there is nothing wrong with WO binos Mark and i am sure if you get on with them you will be looking for either Televues or Baader ones :D

Also suggest look in s/h market instead of buying new ones.Can save you a few squids.

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there is nothing wrong with WO binos Mark and i am sure if you get on with them you will be looking for either Televues or Baader ones :D

Also suggest look in s/h market instead of buying new ones.Can save you a few squids.

Talking of squids, the Baader Maxbright I looked at online was about the same price as the WO and seemed to resemble most Kunming Optics bino's. The TeleVue bino's are a different kettle of fish though, and are about a grand a pair/unit. They are physically bigger I believe as well.

There is joke that the WO bino's are 'gateway' bino's and once you get hooked you can't help but up the size to feed the addiction lol.

I think I'll take the chance ...

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that joke is sort of correct and at the same time not in my opinion.All depends how much "hooked" you get and what are your idea of using them.

As we clarified,WO have limitation of 20mm field stop what limits you to use these binoviewers practically only for planetary observation due to:

1.Prism size

2.Most probably your telescope is not bino friendly and as such you will be forced to use some sort of GPC or barlow to reach focus

3.Due to point Nr2 your magnifications for any deep sky object will be too high to practically use them.

If your plan is to use them ONLY for planetary observations,then the joke is not correct as you do not require any upgrade to larger prisms and 20mm field stop is more than sufficient for planetary use.

However,if you do get seriously addicted to binoviewers and find them really good (like i do ) and plan to use them not only on planetary but also for deep sky objects,then most likely you will be saving up for the big brother of Baader being Mark V what has currently largest prisms commercially produced of 28mm.

This in my case is also purely the reason why i went for my binoviewers with 30mm prisms as now i can use a pair of 35mm baader eudiascopics in my binos without suffering of black outs and getting the largest FOV available in 1.25" format.And i can now observe majority of deep sky objects too with binoviewers ( my location and light pollution depending).I enjoy this immensely and i cant see me going back to cyclops mode any time soon.Only one eye piece has remained in my case for cylops mode being ES30mm 82 degree,all others are gone and replaced with pairs of ortho and erlfes. Binoviewers do not require expensive eye pieces and standard plossls,erlfes,orthos will do the job perfectly :)

Good luck and looking forward to hear about your experience with binos.

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that joke is sort of correct and at the same time not in my opinion.All depends how much "hooked" you get and what are your idea of using them.

As we clarified,WO have limitation of 20mm field stop what limits you to use these binoviewers practically only for planetary observation due to:

1.Prism size

2.Most probably your telescope is not bino friendly and as such you will be forced to use some sort of GPC or barlow to reach focus

3.Due to point Nr2 your magnifications for any deep sky object will be too high to practically use them.

If your plan is to use them ONLY for planetary observations,then the joke is not correct as you do not require any upgrade to larger prisms and 20mm field stop is more than sufficient for planetary use.

However,if you do get seriously addicted to binoviewers and find them really good (like i do ) and plan to use them not only on planetary but also for deep sky objects,then most likely you will be saving up for the big brother of Baader being Mark V what has currently largest prisms commercially produced of 28mm.

This in my case is also purely the reason why i went for my binoviewers with 30mm prisms as now i can use a pair of 35mm baader eudiascopics in my binos without suffering of black outs and getting the largest FOV available in 1.25" format.And i can now observe majority of deep sky objects too with binoviewers ( my location and light pollution depending).I enjoy this immensely and i cant see me going back to cyclops mode any time soon.Only one eye piece has remained in my case for cylops mode being ES30mm 82 degree,all others are gone and replaced with pairs of ortho and erlfes. Binoviewers do not require expensive eye pieces and standard plossls,erlfes,orthos will do the job perfectly :)

Good luck and looking forward to hear about your experience with binos.

I was planning to use the bino's predominantly for lunar viewing, although planets would be good too I reckon. I have a 102mm Mak to use the bino's with but I am getting an SCT of 235mm next year and I reckon the bino should work well on both of them. 

I suppose I'll have to see how I get on with the WO's before I can evaluate whether it will be worth getting a more expensive bino.

A lot of people say it's difficult going back to cyclops mode after using bino's. I think bright objects such as the Moon are difficult to observe with one eye for any length of time, so I'm looking forward to using the bino on that. I have a few decent pairs of eyepieces for the bino including TeleVue 15mm Plossls, so I should be OK there. 

I should be getting the WO bino's in about three weeks, but I don't know if the weather will be good enough to test them before Christmas.

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any planet ( Moon,Jupiter,Venus,Saturn,Mars etc) will be gorgeous in binos and as due the light pass binos do reduce brightness a little,moon will not be that bright and you will be able to observe Moon or other bright object for far longer periods as in cyclops mode.Moon is my particular favorite. With binoviewers you get the feeling like you are flying over the surface and once something interesting is found,you can slam on brakes and inspect the area ,once finished move onto the next.It is by far more relaxing way of observing as cylops mode.As with everything new,there is a small learning curve,but once mastered and understood,it is straight forward task.

And as you are getting a 10" sct and  if your trials are successful in your smaller MAK, you can also target bright globular clusters with larger SCT.

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any planet ( Moon,Jupiter,Venus,Saturn,Mars etc) will be gorgeous in binos and as due the light pass binos do reduce brightness a little,moon will not be that bright and you will be able to observe Moon or other bright object for far longer periods as in cyclops mode.Moon is my particular favorite. With binoviewers you get the feeling like you are flying over the surface and once something interesting is found,you can slam on brakes and inspect the area ,once finished move onto the next.It is by far more relaxing way of observing as cylops mode.As with everything new,there is a small learning curve,but once mastered and understood,it is straight forward task.

And as you are getting a 10" sct and  if your trials are successful in your smaller MAK, you can also target bright globular clusters with larger SCT.

Yeah, I figured the light loss with bino's wouldn't be a hindrance to observing the Moon! lol. I figured that objects like globulars and the like would be pretty good as well. I live in the greenbelt and light pollution isn't a big problem so I can see quite a few objects, like globular clusters, even with the 102mm Mak.

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On 11/4/2015 at 23:09, Mak the Night said:

Strangely, I now have a pair of TV 15mm Plossls.  :grin:

Sounds like a good way to go... having had my first experience of a binoviewer last night (WO), now decided I really must get one - but torn between WO and Baader Maxvision. Any thoughts, pros/cons or are they all the same? Thanks!

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2 hours ago, Astral Enigma said:

Sounds like a good way to go... having had my first experience of a binoviewer last night (WO), now decided I really must get one - but torn between WO and Baader Maxvision. Any thoughts, pros/cons or are they all the same? Thanks!

As far as I know the Baader Maxbrights are not being made anymore and are normally out of stock. I believe they are being redesigned. The WO bino's are pretty much the same and virtuall all of the bino's on the market between £150 - £250 are made by Kunming Optics: http://www.united-optics.com/Products/Telescope_Accessories/Binoviewer_and_Barlow/Binoviewer_and_Barlow/Binoviewer%20and%20Barlow.html

I don't know about the more expensive Baaders, but the next general binoviewer price category is about £1000 - £1500. Essentially the prisms are bigger in the more expensive bino's and can give greater FOV. The WO, like most of the less pricey binoviewers, give around 66° FOV at the maximum. I don't think any eyepiece that has a greater than 20mm field stop can use more than 20mm field stop on the cheaper bino's either.

binonew.jpg.644fd5ddca02c2b567669a80f227

56dc6d54e4b89_WO20sBCO32s(2).jpg.013a245

The trouble with bino's is that you need two eyepieces ... you can go a bit mad with the accessories! lol

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3 hours ago, Stu said:

I recently bought a pair of TS binoviewers which supposedly have 23mm prism clear aperture. Not badly priced either because you are just paying for the BV, not other accessories

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p1855_TS-Astro-Binokularansatz-fuer-Teleskope-mit-Ringklemmung.html

 

Interesting, they seem to resemble the new Celestron bino's.

http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/celestron-stereo-binocular-viewer-125.html

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42 minutes ago, Mak the Night said:

Interesting, they seem to resemble the new Celestron bino's.

http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/celestron-stereo-binocular-viewer-125.html

No mention of clear aperture on RVO site, but Harrison Telescope details say 18mm which is a fair bit less so fov would be restricted. The 23mm did appeal for the TS BVs, same as the MaxBrights I think?

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