Considering dabbling with video astronomy

[Carl Reade]

Hi, Bobby it really depends on what you wish to capture and always down to funds.

 

Firstly analogue cameras or CCTV cameras. You have a variety of choices, the Samsung 2000/4000, the LN300, the Mallincam Micro or Astro Video and more. They need a video grabber to convert the signal to digital to the PCs USB port. These cameras do all the magic inside and are controlled by a menu either by a buttons on the camera or software by PC. These cameras are capable of exposures from milliseconds to minutes depending on which one you choose. Dont be too excited about how long you can expose for as light pollution will quickly put an end to that depending where you are.

 

Generally you should get good results up to 20 seconds in most places. The faster the scope the better the results generally between F3 to F5 is ideal for this sport. This dosnt count for planets, moon etc.

 

The other type is Imaging or guide cameras such as the Lodestar, Atik Infinity and recently the GPCAM where the magic happens in the software to give near live views to achieve the same goal.

 

I can only comment on the Samsung 2000, the LN300 and the GPCAM. 

 

The Samsung 2000 and LN300 can capture meteors, the moon, sun, planets and dsos and does the job well.

 

The GPCAM is a recent addition and USB direct with higher definition. So sun, moon and planets is no problem. Its capable of shooting live dso and the software is being updated rapidly however the weather disagrees.

[nytecam]

Hi Bobby - your alt-az mount [assuming it tracks well!] is fine for video/EAA as exposures are so brief that field rotation as it's called won't effect results.  Many here use alt-az.

As for cameras the SX Lodestar knocks-spots-off any video cams for image quality and ease of use but is expensive - here's my enlarged crop 20sec shot of M57 from this week and check my gallery below. 

But a budget entry into video is the LN200 [0.0003Lux model] from AliExpress or its current model + a Lidl frame grabber to PC for £15 this week to test the water.

Good luck

Nytecam - doing astro since 1947 !

[nytecam]

LN200 to reade LN300 !

[stash_old]

The LN300 while being a very capable camera does not have a compatible hand controller(mine didn't anyway) to replace using the very very small menu buttons located on the back of the camera. pressing these are awkward and can knock your scope. There are DIY ways to create "remote menu buttons" if you are into DIY. The Samsung range do have a generic controller(flea bay) which enables you to change the settings in the camera. Note the Millincam,Astro-video and others which, I think is true for some models, use the LN300 as a base but do heavy modding do I believe have remote capabilities.

The Analogue set up is not difficult and you don't even need a PC when being lazy I just set up the camera on a scope or old camera lens(great use of old kit) connect up a rear view mirror camera screen(mines 7inch) to the camera and then just look at the screen and use the remote controller.If i wanted to record without a PC I use a mini DVR which as a by product converts the signal as per a grabber but no PC  involved   Also you can use the set up in a security capacity even though the IR lens has been removed or at least that's what I tell the wife.

Yes ,at a price,  digital camera's are better quality(try seeing pictures taken by a Millincam xtreme ,for example, very very good) but for "video assisted viewing" analogue route can be straight forward and cheap especially for DSO's.

Like all things in life other considerations may come into play - cost etc. Plus seeing things for one self is far better than the jaw jaw here - so if there is someone local 

Before someone has a knock I too use digital DSLR/Backyard EOS etc but thats a different kettle of fish and I am not knocking any methods.   Clear Skies and have fun whatever you do.

[Bobby1970]

The ln300 does sound interesting. Especially at the prices quoted. Lol. The pic of the ring nebula above looks excellent. What sort of exposure time is that taken at? Is it a stacked image?

I am leaning towards the altair GP at the moment though I think.

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[nytecam]

The ln300 does sound interesting. Especially at the prices quoted. Lol. The pic of the ring nebula above looks excellent. What sort of exposure time is that taken at? Is it a stacked image?

I am leaning towards the altair GP at the moment though I think.

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My M57 is a single unstacked 20s shot as quoted. Video as you appreciate auto-stacks very brief 'subs' at mains frequency (50c/s) and each frame adds noisy and amp glow that can spoil the end result. The Lodestar and similar cameras have the amplifier 'off' during the exposure which can be of any (sensible) duration so little noisy and no amp glow.

All I carry down the garden to my scope is my laptop - plug is single USB lead for power, camera control and viewing with image grab as required for posting here. No additional power sources, leads or wires to trip over. The Lodestar has amazing sensitivity and clean images vital for those very faint objects after you've done the bright Messiers - good luck :-)

Nytecam

[Spacedout]

I've only done analogue myself so far though I am now quite excited with the recent developments with digital and I'm watching closely for my new pending setup.  However, I had a lot of fun with my analogue cameras and they produced some very nice results.  I had the option of viewing direct on my TV or I could add a grabber and then view on the pc if I wanted to broadcast or record.  No drama really, just like adding an adapter to the end of the video cable.

Some example videos and worth noting all done in Alt Az:

Bottom left is the Mallincam Extreme on a C11 and top right is the Mallincam Micro (similar to the LN300) and not too shabby considering the price.  

So this is what you would expect once the analogue has been converted to digital. 

And this is direct to the TV with 3 different exposures.

And some pictures I took of the TV.

   

   

Personally, if I was just starting out I would start off with a lower cost analogue or digital camera and then work my way up.  Plus there is a lot happening in the VA/EAA world right now so it may be worth it...

Either-way, you will love this near live viewing malarkey whatever camera you buy so best of luck and welcome 

Karl

[Bobby1970]

I am pretty much certain I am going to go for the Altair GP cam. For the money it seems like a great low cost way of having a go with a digital video cam.

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[JamesF]

Just occurred to me that with relatively modern televisions and computers there's often no reason that output from a digital camera going through the PC can't be displayed on the television.  Many computers now have HDMI outputs allowing an HDMI television to be used as a screen.

James

[nytecam]

Just occurred to me that with relatively modern televisions and computers there's often no reason that output from a digital camera going through the PC can't be displayed on the television.  Many computers now have HDMI outputs allowing an HDMI television to be used as a screen.

James

Quite a few already to that for later playback on big flat-screen TV but at the scope things are usually scaled down somewhat ;-)

Nytecam

[Carl Reade]

I am pretty much certain I am going to go for the Altair GP cam. For the money it seems like a great low cost way of having a go with a digital video cam.

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I think the GPCAM is a great all rounder. I have only had a chance to do some sun and moon work with it and the results are quality. I have yet to get the weather for longer exposure but Results in a dark room are looking good. As well as its own software it is fully supported by Sharpcap which now has a live stacking feature with control of white and dark levels and it works very well. If broadcasting at some stage interests you it works directly with Xsplit broadcasting software without any fuss. I believe the software is going to have more features in the near future.

I have read it now comes with a wide angle lens now for time lapse and meteor capture. Oh and it can be used for guiding as well. I think you will like it.

Carl

[stash_old]

Quite a few already to that for later playback on big flat-screen TV but at the scope things are usually scaled down somewhat ;-)

Nytecam

You could always connect a micro projector and display a very large image on the house wall if its white - I am joking 

[Spacedout]

I have read it now comes with a wide angle lens now for time lapse and meteor capture. Oh and it can be used for guiding as well. I think you will like it.

Carl

Just spotted this Carl, this guy seems to be using it as a guider, looks pretty good to me.

http://ukastroimaging.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=63275.0

[Dave In Vermont]

There are a number of converters on the market to change analogue into digital for ease in what to view it through. Here's one from MallinCam:

http://www.mallincam.net/miscellaneous-accessories.html#ma02

Scroll down to the HDMI Upscaler. Orion - USA also offers one in their catalogue or online here in the US.

So using analog is meaning rather less than it did a few years ago.

Have fun,

Dave

[johnno]

I  made a 6 meter wiring loom for the analog camera, with 6 cable's for full remote operation, everything is now always plugged into the back of the astro pc and I just throw the loom out of the window and do the connections at the mount end. Makes a big difference in setup and dismantling times, might take me less than 6 seconds more than when I use my usb camera. I use to hate coiling the individual cables at the end of a late night session, now its like having 1 cable just wrap it up and hook it to the side of the pc table when finished.

Did the same for the usb camera with 3 cables, 1 for HC, 1 for focuser, 1 for camera

[Bobby1970]

I have a follow on question lol. 

In simple terms, if i opt for the Altair GP cam, or one of the Analogue options, will the data i can gather be greater than my DSLR given the same exposure time?

I appreciate i am limited with my Alt/Az GOTO mount, i guess i am trying to find out if i can get more out of it with one of the options discussed here than i currently can with my DSLR given the same mount will be used???? 

[Carl Reade]

If your going for DSO on the Alt/Az I would opt for analogue as a starter. Speed is what you need.

[Bobby1970]

If your going for DSO on the Alt/Az I would opt for analogue as a starter. Speed is what you need.

So the analogue is "faster" than a purely digital camera. Even though it is converting to digital with a screen grabber??

The ease of use with the USB is quite appealing, ie no extra cables or connections, just the camera straight into the laptop

[Carl Reade]

Don't worry about the grabber it works instantaneously it dosnt effect the light gathered or sensitivity of the camera you won't know its there. Just thinking it would be a good starter for your mount.

Don't get confused with analogue and digital being faster its all down to how sensitive the chip is and what software is driving it within your budget.

[Bobby1970]

I placed an order for an Altair GP Cam from Ian King yesterday. However it turns out that they are closed until next tuesday due to exhibiting at a show.

However when you land on the webpage there is no mention of this until you go into the "articles" section. I only found out because i emailed regarding despatch of my order and getting an automated response saying they are closed.

I would have ordered elsewhere if this had been more apparent on their website so i am slightly miffed to say the least. lol

[Dave In Vermont]

Before they left - two weeks before they left, in fact - I wrote them a letter inquiring if they ship to the USA. In their reply they told me to ask them my question after they return from this show. Apparently just a simple 'yes' or 'no' was beyond them. So I would, just out of principle alone, find another outlet to deal with.

Tring Astronomy Centre answered my question promptly. They do - for anyone interested. Here's their link:

http://www.tringastro.co.uk/

Clear skies,

Dave

[Bobby1970]

They must be doing well if they can afford to be like that with potential customers. Having previously ran a business myself we would still answer queries like yours in similar situations

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[JamesF]

I've attempted to contact Altair by email and received no response either.  They do seem to be quite variable

James

[Spacedout]

I placed an order for an Altair GP Cam from Ian King yesterday. However it turns out that they are closed until next tuesday due to exhibiting at a show.

However when you land on the webpage there is no mention of this until you go into the "articles" section. I only found out because i emailed regarding despatch of my order and getting an automated response saying they are closed.

I would have ordered elsewhere if this had been more apparent on their website so i am slightly miffed to say the least. lol

Hello Bobby, have you any update on this yet?  I think the problem might be as you mention due to the show and to be fair I think Ian King may not have a lot of staff so he may not always be able to responds as fast as he would like.  That said there are many retailers where you can buy Altair products such as Tring Astronomy like Dave mentioned so maybe give them a call or Green Witch for example.  Anyway I hope you get sorted soon and best of luck.

[johnno]

Altair have sent a email out saying they will be closed till Wednesday due to the show and i think some of the others are doing the same.