What's my Career Path?

[mfrymus]

This has been a question I've been asking myself for a while.

But I dont want to ask, I want to go out and look for it myself.

For many years I've been interested all space related things. From rocket ships, to rovers, to the various planets and stars, black-holes, galaxies, etc.

What I always wanted to know is whether there is any life beyond ours.

I have always wanted to be a part of an organization that looked for life beyond our planet, whether it would be intelligent life or micro-bacterial life.

Obviously intelligent life (or simply finding 'animals') would be more appealing. But both are interesting to me.

I started my career in the film industry. It has been another passion of mine. Working on movie sets. After finishing high school and college, and working in the field, I don't think this is where my true passion lies.

I'm looking for a job that would bring change to this world. Being able to be a part of a group of people to say they discovered life out there would mean... the world to me.     Basically, the purpose to search for life directly.

Every single night I look up at the stars. Everyone knows me that way. Always looking up at the stars and getting lost in the universe. But what is my career path?

I also consider to be an eco person. I am pro to anything that has to do with creating a cleaner and better environment for future generations. Renewable resources and free energy.

These things interest me:

• Being able to obverse the universe through a telescope to find planets, stars, black holes, and possibly life. Astronomer?
• I would LOVE to be a part of a team that helps search for life; Whether its through a telescope on earth (incl. radio) for intellectual life... or by designing / building rovers that go to different planets searching for micro-bacterial life. Astrobiology? -- Then again, Ive read that a lot of studying is earth based and not in outer space.
• Flight interests me as well. Designing new ways of propulsion and rockets for people or instruments. Aerospace Engineering related?
• Having a job that gives me the potential to go into outer space to conduct experiments would be a bonus!

• Astronomer?
• Astrophysicist?
• Astrobiologist?
• Aerospace Engineer?
• Something else?

The reason Im trying to be specific is because I dont want to go to school blind. I want to know what career path Im heading. I am still open to being flexible, but as long as I have a strong sense of direction... Why?

Well, I've already completed high school and college. Being 25 in January, I fell like Id be spending a lot of time in school than in the work field.

I wasnt really that good in math & science in school. I liked it, but never good because I never saw a future for it in my career at the time, and didnt put much effort into it. Which I highly regret.

But, Im retaking high school next month credits to boost my grades before attending University in June/July or in September of 2016.

[shelby90]

mfrymus,

 You know, I can very much relate to how you feel. Deciding what to do with my life has been a problem lately, also. But I try to remind myself that maybe just following what I enjoy doing will create the right path. If astronomy and science interest you, maybe take some classes and see how it fits. Does Canada have community college systems? Or do you have to go straight to a University?

 I really couldn't give any personal experience in one of those career fields but as a person who loves science and math, it is a rewarding field to study. Do you know if a local astronomy club has any lectures coming up? My local club has lecturers from different astro-related fields give talks. Maybe that could give you some insight. I was at one recently when an astrobiologist spoke and it was great.

[mcolbert]

one faint possibility may be to attend a session with a vocational guidance counsellor.  As Harry Hoo would state - there are two possibilities:

1.  you will need to find someone professional and competent, possibly also a psychologist with many years expertise.

2.  the down side is that if they use instruments such as the Holland SDS or MBTI then they shan't be of direct use to you.

So it may be a start to check the 'local' universities for a B.Sc. or similar and then, as you progress to check out each of the above interests either through semester units or short courses or possibly, when the time comes, through post graduate studies and so on.  Remember too that there are many universities world wide that offer on line studies / degrees - so take the time to check out your options.

What may be best is to arrange a time with the head of the university physics department and briefly explain to him / her about your interests and see what they can suggest - if he/she has a sufficient overview of their field - which some do not I'm afraid.

Hope that this helps,

michael

[Colinlp]

Most of this work is done by research departments at universities, so basically you'll be needing to aim for a postgrad PhD course to get into the sharp side of things. I've got an MPhys in astro physics but we were still only scratching around at bottom of the tree when I was in uni

[FenlandPaul]

Thank you for sharing such a personal and important question with us here.

I can't give you the answer but I can hopefully give you some of my experience so that you avoid the mistakes I made. Right from when I was 11 or 12, I wanted to be an astronomer. I was mad about the subject, spent every clear evening outside with the telescope that initially my parents and then I worked hard to buy. I loved the night sky, got involved in all sorts of amateur observing programmes, and had only one thing that I ever wanted to do when I finished school and university. For me, my university degree choice was simple - astronomy. If I wanted to be an astronomer, why would I choose anything else? When I saw a career counsellor at school, his notes afterwards stated "Paul's case is one of the most straightforward I've ever come across; he wants to be an astronomer and he's doing all the right things to become one. He doesn't need any counselling."

How wrong he was.

I am now an accountant. OK, so that sounds like a bad joke, but that's how I ended up training and whilst that's not really what I do any more, it's formed the basis of my career.

So what went wrong? Put simply, I didn't do my research well enough (which in itself should have disqualified me from the profession I wanted to join!). I thought astronomy was all about obersving, taking pictures, long nights in the freezing cold on Mount Palomar, I saw the glamourous stuff get reported in the astro press and the news, and I took no notice of the hard graft, the endless physics, the data crunching, the impossible equations. I imagined myself as Allan Sandage spending long nights in the prime focus cage of some giant telescope, but in truth I had no idea what an astronomer actually did day to day. And most of those things were not things I enjoyed or excelled at.

So within the first couple of terms at Univeristy, I realised I'd made a mistake, I still managed a good degree, but that came from learning how to work the system and pass exam questions (lazy tutors had a bank of about 5 questions that they'd rotate each year) rather than being good at astronomy. THe only areas I was genuinely good at were the practical oberving sessions and the "public outreach" writing assignments. The whole experience knocked out my passion for the subject for 10 years or so. Pleased to say I'm hooked again now.

So I guess I'm saying just do your research thoroughly. Try to talk to people in those fields and ask them what it's really like. What does a typical day / week consist of? What's behind the glamourous veneer? How did it differ from what they expected? My guess is that a lot of them will be only too pleased to provide their stories.

But bear in mind also, if you did make a mistake, it's ok. What I do now bears no resemblance to astronomy, and I'm always asked "so how on earth did you end up doing what you do now?" I chose a completely different field and I now have the dual benefit of an interesting job and an interesting hobby that I do in the evenings when it's clear and when I don't have to get up early. I also met my wife at university, so it was worth every moment of mathematical woe and confusion.

All the best with your decisions. You're clearly bright enough to ask around, so I'm sure you'll do fine. And if you don't, then it's entirely in your gift to change things. Basically, you can't lose for winning.

Paul

[RobertI]

Well i think you've come to the right place for some balanced opinions.

My experience has been almost identical to FenlandPaul. I was a passionate about the hobby as a teenager, studied Astrophysics at Uni, found it had far too much maths to make it enjoyable, managed to get the BSc. but ended up as a Business Analyst! As an amateur I can really concentrate in the areas of astronomy I love.

I think Paul's suggestion to talk to people in your fields of interest is really good. By doing this you may also (no I would say you WILL) pick up useful contacts along the way. They say 90% of jobs are never advertised and my personal experience backs this up so talk to as many people as possible and you may get the dream job that you never even considered.

I believe there are also programmes that require amatuer involvement - one example is Zooniverse. I am sure there must be others. Becoming involved in these and possibly starting to get to know the people involved may be a course to consider. You can still excel in your field as an amatuer.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Rob

[JB80]

You may be surprised just how varied careers related to space or aerospace can be ranging from scientist, office admin, IT, engineering and more.

If you look regularly at some job listings you get the idea of what are being advertised the most and moreover what are the qualifications needed to fill positions and what would suit you the most.

This is a pretty comprehensive list of the jobs available in Europe at least on this site http://www.space-careers.com/jobsearch/secompanystr__sekeywordsstr__secontract_0_secountry__sesalarymin__sesalarymax__sesalarycurrency_dollar_sesalaryper_annum_seposted_28_sepage_10_seall_0_search_1_cvsearch_1.html

Not of a lot of use in Canada but you get the idea of what they are on about.

I have also seen jobs at places like Bombardier in Canada and more when perusing listings so they may have more local options.

[Piero]

It's a good question, but the answer is difficult..

I also think that you should do your own research and ask questions to how many people you can. I would base a choice like this on what you like and what is requested by the society.

Unless you are rich, you need a job for living!

Would this be enough? Mm..no really.. Things change in life and in the society, and what is 'trendy' now, might not be tomorrow. This is the bad thing of our society where things speed up so quickly that one can mature experience in a sector and then see the same sector going down too quickly.

I prefer not to comment more specifically on my path because it is not said it would happen to you.

It is easy to make mistakes, and you will make mistakes if you want to live and try different options.. This is not a problem. What it matters is that you recognise your mistakes and look beyond them to work out a nice solution.

This is difficult! Mathematically it is a non linear, multivariate, stochastic problem, at least!

On the other side it can be exciting too, if your mood is positive..

As for astronomy observations, balance your expectations and also enjoy what you have!

Eventually, we live well compared to most.

[mfrymus]

I've searched for local astronomy clubs, and at the moment, I haven't found any that have any lectures or any events going on.

I figured I might go to a university or two around my area that focus on the subjects I listed and I will ask for guidance.

I do understand that I need a PhD. And that is what I'm going to be going for.

In your opinion, what do you think is the better/you're favorite field in the astro____ career?

Any universities you recommend attending?

(Canada, USA, Europe - As long as its in English)

[Mrbloke]

Dentist. Never met a poor dentist. That way you can enjoy astro in your free time.

[Dr_Ju_ju]

Have a look at the University of Surrey, they even have dedicated Dept. and have been involved with many of the UK's current space projects:

http://www.surrey.ac.uk/undergraduate/physics-astronomy

p.s. I have no connection with the Uni, just have friends who attended courses there (Physics\Maths) and enjoyed the environment..

[shelby90]

 Personally, I think the astrobiology field seems really interesting. But I like biology and the meshing of the two fields appeals to me. But then again, being in a research lab all day isn't as appealing (not that there isn't more to the job). If the search for extraterrestrial life is what you like, this might be a good way to go. I heard an astrobiologist from NASA speak and she said currently she was working with bacteria- altering some of their genes to withstand very high temperatures and then seeing if they would survive those high temperatures. If so, it's an indicator as to which planets could harbor life. So, I think you're right in stating that a lot of the work is done on Earth.

 The only universities I could speak on are the University of California colleges. In particular, UC Berkeley is highly regarded.

 I think FenlandPaul and Robertl make some really good points about passion not necessarily translating to wanting to pursue it as a career. I've experienced something similar in that while I love science, I find studying for hours on end without seeing daylight makes me real unhappy. But, like I said before, I also find it very rewarding. Conflicting feelings, you see. I agree with others that the only way to see what field interests you most is to research and talk to people in that area of work. YouTube could be a good resource, also.

 Once you get started with school, internships/fellowships are a fantastic way to get your foot in the door at organizations.

[FenlandPaul]

I've searched for local astronomy clubs, and at the moment, I haven't found any that have any lectures or any events going on.

I figured I might go to a university or two around my area that focus on the subjects I listed and I will ask for guidance.

I do understand that I need a PhD. And that is what I'm going to be going for.

In your opinion, what do you think is the better/you're favorite field in the astro____ career?

Any universities you recommend attending?

(Canada, USA, Europe - As long as its in English)

Worth exploring what is available nowadays. I went to University College London and there is some first class research done there. They also have a brilliantly-equipped (though poorly located) observatory, which I loved (and which discovered the supernova in M82 last year).

But again, worth doing research as the field has developed a lot since I was a lad!!

Paul

[Chris]

Hi mfrymus,

I'm sure quite a few of us see our former selves in what you're saying, so I think you're in good company

Again, my experience has almost reflected Paul and Rob's. Hopefully my story will add to the insight a little bit:

Like you and the others I was obsessed with anything space from an early age. I studied Astronomy at Uni in order to become an Astronomer. I struggled with some of the maths despite liking maths, but clearly it didn't like me. I did well at the practical side of things and managed to win a Uni prize for practical work at the observatory, plus achieved an A1 in my practical final year project studying photometric data I captured for exoplanets and variable stars. I finished with an average degree and was overlooked for MSc because my maths wasn't strong enough. End of the dream for me.

However, like Paul I met my wife at Uni which was a spot of luck, we now have 3 lovely children She's pretty good at maths and got onto an MSc studying habital zones around K and M type stars. She now works for the Royal Astronomical Society. We also made some pretty good friends on the course who were also good at maths, some went the route of MSc then Phd, but only one person out our group of friends actually works as an Astronomer, the rest went into areas such as banking, accountancy, analyst jobs, and teaching. I ended up doing a second degree in Diagnostic Radiography and Imaging, and I'm pretty happy working as a Radiographer now days when I'm not looking after the babies.  

Summary:

Astronomy at the professional level is more about maths and modelling, the actual hands on astronomy will be undertaken by technicians at the big observatories you manage to get time at. Most people who start an Astronomy degree end up in other careers from my experience. Also from my experience you need to be 'gifted' or at least very good at maths to become an Astronomer. (I guess you need to find out where you stand with that?). Even if you find that it's not working out quite as planned like with Paul, Rob, and myself, it will probably open doors to other good things in life

Now, as for looking for life out there in the Universe and Astrobiology, these are things that specifally interested me and my wife about the field of astronomy, thus why I was looking at exoplanets and my wife at habitable zones. I also took extra Biology and Geology modules which tie in with these fields, it is a very big question isn't it and one humanity would love to answer. Apart from SETI looking for complex life, there is a lot of research looking at transiting exoplanets, spefically the spectroscopy from the atmosphere of the transiting planet in order to look for methane, oxygen, water etc, which would point to signs of life. Astrobiology looks really interesting too, studying extremophiles in permafrost and around deep see vents on Earth in order to better understand the possibilty of life out there in the solar system maybe in the frozen water on Mars or the deep see of Europa. All good stuff, and I hope I'm around when the news comes in!     

[Piero]

Astronomy at the professional level is more about maths and modelling, the actual hands on astronomy will be undertaken by technicians at the big observatories you manage to get time at. Most people who start an Astronomy degree end up in other careers from my experience. Also from my experience you need to be 'gifted' or at least very good at maths to become an Astronomer. (I guess you need to find out where you stand with that?). Even if you find that it's not working out quite as planned like with Paul, Rob, and myself, it will probably open doors to other good things in life

I think what Chris said about Astronomy at professional level is true. There is a lot of maths and modelling (including data collection and analysis, statistics, mathematical modelling, simulation, etc). However, that is not necessarily all. 

It is fundamental to be creative, inquisitive, open minded, having fun, and possibly be happy to risk to become slightly crazy in order to go deep with your thoughts to get a solution out!  

Maths in a Bachelor or Master degrees is actually introductory maths, in order to learn the skills for going with your feet. It's an initial interesting path, I think.. It is true, you need to be good at it. If you are and you have creativity, well, that is, I think, all what you need for carrying on with further studies.

.. well, you also need to be enthusiastic to work a lot..  easily>80h / week.. But that is easy, if you are having fun!

[physicus]

Worth exploring what is available nowadays. I went to University College London and there is some first class research done there. They also have a brilliantly-equipped (though poorly located) observatory, which I loved (and which discovered the supernova in M82 last year).

But again, worth doing research as the field has developed a lot since I was a lad!!

Paul

Geez - talk about blast from the past.  You're presumably talking about Mill Hill.  My story is a little like your first post in this thread.  I went as far as having an interview at UCL for Physics & Astronomy (1980 intake), and they took us potentials out to the observatory on a bus.  Got to look through what must have been the Fry refractor, and early pics from Voyager One were on the wall in the interview room - so the chit-chat was around that.  For some surreal reason, Telstar was playing on the radio as we left the dome!  Funny what you remember.   So, this was all hugely exciting and romantic.   But I also looked at Bristol for Astrophysics, which was a heavily mathematical course, and that showed me what professional astronomy was all about - and it wasn't all fun stuff at the telescope.  That led me to make a conscious decision to keep astronomy as a hobby - I remember where I was when I made that decision.  At the end of the day I elected to become a chemical engineer - because practical stuff interests me just as much - and it seemed to offer a more guaranteed career given my strengths.   That led to a varied and thoroughly enjoyable 'corporate' career ranging from R&D to procurement.  I've never really bought into the whole  Steve Jobs 'do what you love' (or whatever) because I love too many different things.

[mfrymus]

Going back to this.

I still haven't had the opportunity to meet up with any professors or any counselors.

Hopefully sometime soon though.

I've been looking at all the Universities in Canada with related programs.

Some of these programs are specific towards a certain path, while others are more broad.

So its hard to choose the right one.

Is it best to obtain a PhD or Masters in the specific field of choice, or something more broad with more than one field of study?

I've been trying to narrow down my choices and be more specific as to what I want to do; 

(Not interested in doing chemistry lab work or "office" work. Working with my hands is best)

• Being in search of life (intelligent or not).
• Being able to design / build a craft (that would hold man, or robot) that would be sent into space/on planets, etc.
• Working on designing newer and better propulsion systems in the aerospace and aeronautics field. (Which i guess goes with the one above?)
• Work in a particular field of study related to the one above that would give me the opportunity to do tests in space (as an astronaut)

From the looks of it, aerospace engineer, aeronautics, astronautical engineering seems to be my upper choice as it does seem more job promising as it does have different possible opportunities

With the last one mentioned, I'm also curious to know (without any previous pilot or military experience) what field of study is most promising that can give you the opportunity be a payload specialist to be able to go out into space - On the ISS. Such as doing experiments in space -- In a field related to my interests. (Although highly unlikely, but keeping the doors open doesnt hurt)

[mfrymus]

Then again, isn't studying astrophysics better?

If im interested in propulsion systems, or engineering rockets, or robots or anything along those lines, and im interested in figuring out how they work in space and how to use "space" to our advantage, wouldnt this be the field of choice? Or maybe an extra course to take?

[shelby90]

From what you have said, you definitely seem to want to do engineering of some sort. Mechanical engineering could also work. I also know that payload specialists don't go through the astronaut candidate program (at least with NASA), but are selected to carry out specific tasks while on ship. This would mean you would probably need to be involved with a particular project that required you to be on-board to carry out said project. Aiming to be a payload specialist may not be as realistic as say trying to become a mission specialist, who go through the process of actually becoming an astronaut. That being said, I would think a doctorate degree would be the most beneficial, as some of your schooling can be used in place of "work experience" if you ever do decide to apply to the astronaut candidate program. Now, i'm speaking from knowledge of NASA, not the Canadian Space Agency (shout out to Chris Hadfield, he rules!), which might be different. But just my thoughts.

[Peter Drew]

With a "scrape" pass at O level maths I was never going to be a professional astronomer. However I became involved professionally as a telescope maker during which time I gave talks on the subject to many societies and Universities and even got to use the telescopes at Mill Hill whilst being invited over along with Jim Muirden to investigate teething problems with the newly acquired Ealing-Beck 24" Cassegrain. There are many different approaches to the world of astronomy. 

[Chris]

Sounds like my interests are similar to yours, although I didn't have quite the same level of ambition. Prior to my first degree a I did a mechanical engineering apprenticeship with G.E.C. I specifically focused on CNC programming, and machining components with lathes and milling machines. 

After my first degree in Astronomy, and having failed to take this further to become an Astronomer, I decided to try and get into the 'space' side of engineering at a technician level. I applied for a couple of posts at Astrium but didn't get a reply. I eventually got a position with a company called precision Areospace Component Engineering where I programmed lathes and produced small ali and titanium components for the new at the time Airbus 380, as well as some military work such as ejecta seats

It was pretty cool knowing my components were helping to hold planes together, but ultimately I found it a bit soul destroying being stuck infront of a lathe in a noisy factory. I was upto my elbows in cutting oil all day and with a foreman cracking the whip about getting say 1500 components through inspection by Friday for example. This is why a couple of years later I did the second degree, I couldn't imagine doing it for another 40 years. 

My advice would be to avoid any kind of mass production mechanical engineering as there are long periods where you are just churning off components and checking tollerances with a micrometer etc. This can wear thin after a while!

Maybe dip your toe in the engineering environment with a foundation course which covers lots of aspects of engineering perhaps?

I think you need to build the foundations a bit before thinking about going into space. e.g. see how you get on with a foundation course and take it from there. There is no reason why you could'n't go onto post doc work if you find that you both enjoy the reality of it and have the ability

[mfrymus]

Well, if I do take the engineering class, such as aerospace engineering, how will this relate to learning about space?

I want to learn about how things work in space. And how space works. Will I be learning this stuff in the engineering class?

[Chris]

From the looks of it, aerospace engineer, aeronautics, astronautical engineering seems to be my upper choice as it does seem more job promising as it does have different possible opportunities

I basically just picked up on the above point because you mentioned engineering is now your main choice, and I've had a bit of exerience in the field.

Because you've listed a few areas of engineering I suggested a foundation course which will cover various aspects of engineering albeit at a basic level. Hopefully this would allow you to see which direction to go in with further study?    

Most engineering is supply and demand as you can imagine, there are many more engineering jobs working on aeroplanes and various other aircraft than space craft. This isn't to mean that you shouldn't shoot for the stars, but you've got to start somewhere right?

I would also start looking into the math a bit more to see how you find it? Definately get a good book on Calculus for beginners

Now onto your last post. General Areospace engineering won't teach you how space works (I suspect you know this). But it will give you the skills to work on aircraft/space craft and their components.

Wanting to know how space works is a very broad question, but the question makes it sound like you're leaning back towards Astrophysics, am I right?

Either way you need to get hitting the books with the math

[beamer3.6m]

Have you signed up for SETI (is that the correct term) which harnesses the power of your PC to search for life.

It is not a job but at least allows you to invest your time in the passion whilst you find it.

[beamer3.6m]

Your interests are pretty wide.

I think at the moment it is like saying 'I want to work in cars'. Well that could range from designing them to selling them and everything in between.

You would want to do something which works out 'how to use space to our advantage' but again using the car analogy this is like saying 'I want to do something which work out how to take advantage of cars'. This could be design all the way through to sales again.

Space is a very large area (both literally in this context).

I also think that 'working in space' is potentially a little romantic. I assume (and I only assume as I am far too stupid to work in any sort of science - I will stick to the law) that any role is not as exciting as you may think it is.

We all see people on TV with what appears exciting jobs but I bet the reality is that they spend many many hours doing the mundane for that few seconds of 'sexy science'.

Not putting you off but be realistic. Think if your hobby and what you enjoy about it (looking up etc) is what really motivates you.