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Hi, so on my journey to the stars ive got the moon sorted did that a couple of months ago found vega and the constellation of hercules double star i think close together however i was using a 20m got down to a 10 still good with vega going great. Boom see it nice and clear( it still is only a dot mind you just a bit clearer) chucked in a barlow lens, boom nothing couldnt even see through it? Yes cap was off lol help anyone? And thankyou for your help in advance( i do only have a sky watcher refractor to start me out)

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Nothing wrong with a refractor - I have two of them myself. Do you have good star-charts, or some such, to help you find your way about out there? If not, or not top-of-the-line ones, you could take a

Good effort with that kit Dave. Not that tight though, 2.3" and 2.4", but still a lovely object to view.

It also seems that refractors, even small ones have an easier time of splitting doubles than newts or SCT's, but I don't want to start a fight

Yeah defo vega i saw bright it was 100 % used my guide and then used a couple of apps from my location to check again had it locked on and everything.

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Nothing wrong with a refractor - I have two of them myself. Do you have good star-charts, or some such, to help you find your way about out there? If not, or not top-of-the-line ones, you could take a look at Stellarium. This is a huge software-program that you can set for your exact location, set it to your own preferences of what it will show you (it has massive libraries, and more available on-line), and give you a full-screen view of what your night sky has available to you. Very realistic, too.

It takes awhile to download due to it's size. So wait until you have a bit of free time to load it. And to set-up may take you anywhere from 10 minutes to 10 days - depending on what you wish to do! :eek::p  Did I mention it's big? So here's the link:

http://www.stellarium.org/

And there is a user's manual on-line (follow the directions on the download site). As well as one you can download and read at your own pace:

http://barry.sarcasmogerdes.com/stellarium/stellarium_user_guide-new.pdf

The on-line manual is here:

http://www.stellarium.org/wiki/index.php/Stellarium_User_Guide

This won't cost you a penny. Stellarium is FREE. And we are honoured to have one of the developers here as a member.

Congratulations on your telescope purchase. Astronomy is a wonderful science!

Enjoy,

Dave

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Vega is next to Hercules, sounds as if you have sort of joined the two up. No great problem, just means standing outside again and seperating the two before you go telling anyone.

There are four of them sort of in a row: Cygnus - Lyra - Hercules - Bootes.

Sort of Left to Right or anticlockwise. Bootes has Artcturus(Red) at it's base, no real bright stars in Hercules to stand out, Lyra has Vega and Cygnus has Deneb.

The double-double is not difficult to split into two, I suspect that getting it into 4 takes more. Never actually tried.

If it was Lyra then it has the double-double, M57 and just away M56. Use the "lower" 2 stars in the parallogram of Lyra to find them.

In the middle of the lower 2 is M57 (Ring Nrbula) then carry on away and you come across M56 (Globular Cluster) and if you keep going there is Albireo in Cygnus.

Makes an easy 10 minutes viewing - 2 messiers and a contrasting double.

If I recall and if you had a bigger scope (the E-ELT should do it when built :grin: ) Vega has a dust cloud and the start of a planetary system around it.

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I just split epsilon-Lyrae. I used an ST80 F/5 refractor, a cheap, rather generic 6mm EP, and a 3X TeleVue Barlow. It was a messy view, but I could see 4 distinct stars - quivering, wavering, and awash. But at 200X in an ST80, it was about what I expected. e-Lyrae was considered, when I was a young teenager, to be a test for the optics of a 3" refractor. The closer stars are separated by 1.3 arc-seconds, if memory serves me well.

Starfields Ahoy,

Dave

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I just split epsilon-Lyrae. I used an ST80 F/5 refractor, a cheap, rather generic 6mm EP, and a 3X TeleVue Barlow. It was a messy view, but I could see 4 distinct stars - quivering, wavering, and awash. But at 200X in an ST80, it was about what I expected. e-Lyrae was considered, when I was a young teenager, to be a test for the optics of a 3" refractor. The closer stars are separated by 1.3 arc-seconds, if memory serves me well.

Starfields Ahoy,

Dave

Good effort with that kit Dave. Not that tight though, 2.3" and 2.4", but still a lovely object to view.

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Good effort with that kit Dave. Not that tight though, 2.3" and 2.4", but still a lovely object to view.

I first split it in 1973, and I'm quite certain it was then listed at 1.3 arc-sec. Could it be they have spun out wider in their orbits? I think I'll go play with some software and reverse time.....

Thanks for the head's up, Big!

Dave

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While the "double double" is a fairly straightforward split for those with some experience in double stars, it can seem challenging if you are new to them. It's one of the objects that is always on my list when testing new equipment - unless it's Winter of course !

Interestingly, the current apparent "gap" between each of the pairs is around the same as the apparent diameter that Neptunes disk is at the moment !

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While the "double double" is a fairly straightforward split for those with some experience in double stars, it can seem challenging if you are new to them. It's one of the objects that is always on my list when testing new equipment - unless it's Winter of course !

Interestingly, the current apparent "gap" between each of the pairs is around the same as the apparent diameter that Neptunes disk is at the moment !

It also seems that refractors, even small ones have an easier time of splitting doubles than newts or SCT's, but I don't want to start a fight ;)

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Please do tell me more :)

Unable to do so I am afraid.

It was one of those one-off conversations you occasionally have.

I was at one of the Cambridge weekly talks one night and speaking outside with one of the newly qualified PhD's there, as it was outside it was one of the rare clear nights.

In the converstion he said he had a place at Arizona (Tuscon) to continue studing the dust cloud around Vega.

I think it was all chance as someone asked something that concerned Lyra and I pointed out the constellation and star to whoever. The Northumberland scope may have been pointed at M57 and the question may have been "Where actually is the Ring Nebula we have just seen?". Being stood next to someone from the place I tend to play it safe and says that I think that group is Lyra and if so then that should be Vega and so the Ring Nebula is between those two.

That was when he said yes it is as that is what he was studing and was soon off to Arizona to continue.

I asked what aspect did the studying concern, half assumed spectroscopy, and the dust cloud around it came out as that was his area of research.

Then basically off he went to Tuscon a few weeks later, think it was almost exactly a year ago, well I assume he did as I didn't see him there again.

That was the first (and only) time I became aware that Vega was anything more then a big bright star and there was more going on around it.

Edited by ronin
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Unable to do so I am afraid.

It was one of those one-off conversations you occasionally have.

I was at one of the Cambridge weekly talks one night and speaking outside with one of the newly qualified PhD's there, as it was outside it was one of the rare clear nights.

In the converstion he said he had a place at Arizona (Tuscon) to continue studing the dust cloud around Vega.

I think it was all chance as someone asked something that concerned Lyra and I pointed out the constellation and star to whoever. The Northumberland scope may have been pointed at M57 and the question may have been "Where actually is the Ring Nebula we have just seen?". Being stood next to someone from the place I tend to play it safe and says that I think that group is Lyra and if so then that should be Vega and so the Ring Nebula is between those two.

That was when he said yes it is as that is what he was studing and was soon off to Arizona to continue.

I asked what aspect did the studying concern, half assumed spectroscopy, and the dust cloud around it came out as that was his area of research.

Then basically off he went to Tuscon a few weeks later, think it was almost exactly a year ago, well I assume he did as I didn't see him there again.

That was the first (and only) time I became aware that Vega was anything more then a big bright star and there was more going on around it.

Interesting though, I can't find any information on it, any chance you can pm me his name if you know it so I can be on the look out for his study if he publishes it

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 I think the OP's problem is that when he put in the Barlow everything disappeared.

Don't panic! I have had the same problem too. There are three issues - the new stack of lenses may not be perfectly aligned with the original one, the field of view is smaller and the star you are looking for will have wandered off towards the west while you do the changeover!

Make sure you have your finderscope accurately aligned with a bright star (e.g. Vega) so that when it is on the cross hairs it is exactly at the centre of the field of view. You then have the best chance, after swapping in the barlow and realigning the finderscope on your target, of finding it in your field of view.

I first split it in 1973, and I'm quite certain it was then listed at 1.3 arc-sec. Could it be they have spun out wider in their orbits? I think I'll go play with some software and reverse time.....

You were smaller ;-)

Edited by Stub Mandrel
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 I think the OP's problem is that when he put in the Barlow everything disappeared.

Don't panic! I have had the same problem too. There are three issues - the new stack of lenses may not be perfectly aligned with the original one, the field of view is smaller and the star you are looking for will have wandered off towards the west while you do the changeover!

Make sure you have your finderscope accurately aligned with a bright star (e.g. Vega) so that when it is on the cross hairs it is exactly at the centre of the field of view. You then have the best chance, after swapping in the barlow and realigning the finderscope on your target, of finding it in your field of view.

You were smaller ;-)

Good point on getting us back on topic ! :smiley:

When you added a barlow to the 10mm eyepiece, assuming that it was a 2x barlow, you get the equivilent of a 5mm eyepiece and the field of view (the amount of sky you can see) reduces by 50% which might mean that whatever was in view at lower magnification is no longer in view if it was not in the centre of the view to start with.

Adding the barlow lens would mean taking out the eyepiece, putting in the barlow lens and then putting the eyepiece into the barlow lens. During that time the object could have rotated out of the field of view or the scope could have been knocked slightly.

Also, a barlow lens usually moves the point of sharp focus inwards a bit. Depending on the scope being used this might mean that the stars were still in the view but really unfocussed.

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Vega's dust ring could be similar to the Kuiper Belt, A region way beyond Neptune, containing millions of varying sized icy bodies

left over from the formation of the  Solar  System.

Not sure if Vega has a sort of Oort cloud, which in our region of space, is a vast shell of material left over when the rest of it condensed to form our  star, and our planets.

I'm not at all certain if a shell around Vega would be visible in it's entirety, although some extinction of other bodies might be detectable if observations were possible 

both in and out of any shell of material.

The likelihood  is, that it is a ring around Vega, and not a shell.

Oops, sorry, adding to the off topic posts with this.

Ron.

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Hi, thanks for all your reply's to my thread, i kept making sure it was lined up, as i kept putting the 10 mm and 20 back in without the barlow, and it would shine through, nice and clear i also kinda dont know what sort of image im going to expect, i dont know if i am expecting too much, i know that im not going to see spectacular views but i thought with the 10 m i thought i might of seen a bot more detail.

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Apologies we did wander off, and I certainly did not help.

Couple of minor options:

The barlow threw everything so out of focus that nothing was apparent as a star or anything so a "blank" field. Unlikely however as Vega is bright.

The barlow reduced the field of view so much that there was nothing bright in view, reasonable chance expecially if focus disappeared.

Barlow is just wrong, can they go in the wrong way round? as then the focal planes - object and image - will be just wrong to enable an image of any sort.

If they want to investigate a bit then find Vega, move over to Cygnus and get that in focus then put the barlow in and adjust the focus. Reason I pick this is that Cygnus lies in the Milky Way and so wherever they are pointed the milky way should be seen at least a little.

Light pollution will effect the view, but Norwich shouldn't be too bad unless they are sat on top of the Castle.

Edited by ronin
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With your scope you've got 25x and 50x for the 20mm and the 10mm so if you aren't getting results with the 10mm and 2x barlow try using the 20mm and the 2x barlow which will give you 50x, the same as the 10mm which will identify if the problems the barlow or not

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