Baader Narrowband Filter issue?

[tcpip]

We are discussing the Baader OIII CCD filter Mark, not the Baader f2 Highspeed filters you are using with your f2.2 Celestron RASA.

That's true but it's also a Baader OIII filter.  I also have the Baader F2 highspeed filters (Ha, OIII,SII) and only the OIII is producing the halo's.

Also have the OIII Baader filter which is discussed here and is producing the halo's. For avoiding the OIII halo's, i'm using an Astrodon OIII filter. Not optimal because of OAG problems but it's better than having halo's.

[FLO]

I don't think it is possible to make an entirely halo-proof dichroic filter for the reasons mentioned in my previous posts. 

My mission here is to ensure any FLO customer who might have a suspect OIII CCD filter receives a replacement. 

HTH, 

Steve

[davedownsouth]

Here is a recent intergrated shot I have taken with my OIII baader filter which I got from FLO.  This is just 7 x 20 minutes shots binned 1x1, then star aligned, intergrated and stretched (all in PI).  It kind of looks okay to me? Am I missing something or are they not long enough exposes to show up anything?

Whole shot:-

Close-up of bottom 'bright' star:-

[perfrej]

Hi guys,

I have been away for a while and just read through the entire thread.

I have owned three different sets of Baader NB filters of different sizes. One of them had halos in the OIII filter and Baader replaced it immediately, the other were fine and showed no halos at all. From what I understand, the halo is filter generated and appeared in "a small percentage of a specific manufacturing batch", at least that's what they told me. I would just go ahead and contact whoever sold the filters and say I want a new OIII. I am sure Baader will back it as they aim for and market halo free quality as evident by the packaging pictured above.

All the best,

Per

[Robp]

Davedownsouth,  Your images look fine to me so I wouldn't worry

I did a small run last night whilst I await a replacement from Flo just to try and rule out some parts of the gear.

I took some 10 minute subs with the gear as it was and the halo was present.

I took some 10 minute subs with the gear in the shade of my garden furniture umbrella (to reduce the possibility of stray light) and the halo was present.

I took some 10 minute subs without the coma corrector and the halo was present.

I attempted to take some shots with the filter in front of my DSLR just to see what would happen, but my DSLR and laptop decided they were going to have an argument and stop talking to one another. I'll try and reconcile them for tonight

[FLO]

the halo is filter generated and appeared in "a small percentage of a specific manufacturing batch", at least that's what they told me. I would just go ahead and contact whoever sold the filters and say I want a new OIII. I am sure Baader will back it as they aim for and market halo free quality as evident by the packaging pictured above.

I have been wondering when you would post...

I know you are connected with Baader, Per. When I spoke with them last Friday they said the same. That is when I began offering to collect and replace suspect filters. I think we can assume other retailers will do the same for their customers. 

Steve

[perfrej]

Steve, this was way outside of the good relation that I have with them, and the "incident" was a bit back in time so not related to this recent "explosion". Still, they're good people, ordered and structured, and sometimes communicate as Germans do - a bit too little Nonetheless, the quality has always been good in the items that I have purchased. I also use a set of Astrodon filters, both LRGB and NB, and they are good too. I really can't choose between the two...

/per

[FLO]

they're good people, ordered and structured, and sometimes communicate as Germans do - a bit too little Nonetheless, the quality has always been good in the items that I have purchased. I also use a set of Astrodon filters, both LRGB and NB, and they are good too. I really can't choose between the two...

/per

There is no denying the quality of their products or their enthusiasm. I met Thomas Baader a while back, he is a formidable intellect and clearly passionate about product design. 

Steve 

[physicus]

There seems to be a mixed bag of experience coming through, but I'm now thinking I may have bought a Baader OIII filter that would possibly be considered defective by Baader themselves if they saw my results (see my previous post).  It's only my opinion, but I suspect I'm not the only one sitting on one of these things unsure if they have a valid case for complaint.  I bought my filter as part of a set through Amazon - frankly because they were much cheaper (now listed at £190 for the set) but they were sealed, barcoded, with what looks like a serial number on them - presumably traceable to batch.  I'll watch this thread a little longer, but I'm considering writing to Baader directly with the evidence attached (I can't see Amazon's returns process is suited to this case), so they can check if it was part of a duff batch, or if the haloing I'm getting is considered normal or due to some other feature of my imaging train/s.  Having trawled the net on this topic, there are examples out there - and not just related to Baader - where people have, over a period of time, reported, analysed, calculated, questioned, the haloing issue (like te Goldman/Smith study mentioned in an earlier post).  I find it hard to dismiss this issue as a small QC blip in one company. 

[Davey-T]

Don't know if it's at all relevant but I have just done a new set of flats ready for the new season and they all show the same dust bunnies except the O111, no amount of twiddling with length or brightness will produce any dust bunnies on the O111 flats, I do suffer with haloes using it.

Dave 

[perfrej]

There seems to be a mixed bag of experience coming through, but I'm now thinking I may have bought a Baader OIII filter that would possibly be considered defective by Baader themselves if they saw my results (see my previous post).  It's only my opinion, but I suspect I'm not the only one sitting on one of these things unsure if they have a valid case for complaint.  I bought my filter as part of a set through Amazon - frankly because they were much cheaper (now listed at £190 for the set) but they were sealed, barcoded, with what looks like a serial number on them - presumably traceable to batch.  I'll watch this thread a little longer, but I'm considering writing to Baader directly with the evidence attached (I can't see Amazon's returns process is suited to this case), so they can check if it was part of a duff batch, or if the haloing I'm getting is considered normal or due to some other feature of my imaging train/s.  Having trawled the net on this topic, there are examples out there - and not just related to Baader - where people have, over a period of time, reported, analysed, calculated, questioned, the haloing issue (like te Goldman/Smith study mentioned in an earlier post).  I find it hard to dismiss this issue as a small QC blip in one company. 

I am surprised you haven't written them already. They would replace it immediately as stated by both FLO and myself. I agree that Amazon's return process feels a little too much and is maybe not that good in this case, so contacting the manufacturer would be the obvious thing to do.

/per

[physicus]

I am surprised you haven't written them already. They would replace it immediately as stated by both FLO and myself. I agree that Amazon's return process feels a little too much and is maybe not that good in this case, so contacting the manufacturer would be the obvious thing to do.

/per

I am writing to them.  I'm just new to NB and didn't know what was normal.  Also, don't forget the British have a gene that expresses as a reluctance to complain ;-)

[perfrej]

Haha! So noted

/per

[Robp]

I have now received another OIII filter from Flo (thanks Steve/Flo).

Hopefully there is a gap in the clouds tonight so I can give it a test.

[Komet]

I also get horrible halos on the Baader Blue filters. Not the Red or Green, only the Blue. FLO have replaced it but the damn problem persists - any other offers to solve this one? I also have halos through the Baader OIII (not FLO supplied) - this has also been replaced but the issue also persists. 

Yes all the packaging states NO halos & NO reflections but they are there. Surely that has to be wrong. They are making claims that are false.

[physicus]

I also get horrible halos on the Baader Blue filters. Not the Red or Green, only the Blue. FLO have replaced it but the damn problem persists - any other offers to solve this one? I also have halos through the Baader OIII (not FLO supplied) - this has also been replaced but the issue also persists. 

Yes all the packaging states NO halos & NO reflections but they are there. Surely that has to be wrong. They are making claims that are false.

Well I've sent a note to Baader through their German contakt form, including a couple of haloing pics.  So we'll see...

[Steve 1962]

Just had an email from Ian King saying that Baader have recognised a problem and are offering to change affected Oiii filters. I bought mine back in Dec 2012, but even so, IK / Baader will replace it. I'm happy with that. 

Steve

[StuartJPP]

As usual some marketroid makes bold claims (NO Halos, NO Reflections) but I bet that deep down they know this is not true. "Less Halos and Less Reflections" would have been a better catch phrase...

But hats off to them for replacing them (though in reality they really have no choice) as well as the suppliers for pushing it.

Astronomik also had some halo issues with their filters and exchanged them.

[physicus]

:angel: :angel:

[paulf]

Rother Valley Optics had been talking to Baader about this on my behalf and said Baader had admitted there is an issue on some filters and had agreed to replace the filter.

Went to Baader website to double-check their email address and found this:

http://www.baader-planetarium.de/news/baader_news.htm

Translated by Google from German to English:

October 2015 - RECALL for Baader 1¼ "O-III CCD Narrowband filter (# 245 8435)

For over 25 years Baader Planetarium astronomical manufactures filters for the first time during this period is a small number of 1¼." OIII CCD Narrowband Filter with 8,5nm HWB (BNr. # 245 8435) goes on sale without quality control noticed that some of these filters can cause halos of bright stars. All O-III filter in our stock have now been tested, with about ten percent of the O-III filter show from this batch have halos. The error occurred in any other production run of O-III filters, even with other filters with 31.7mm diameter or other sizes. We regret this error production extremely. Usually we check in our quality control 50% each filter batch.Based on the above experience we check now each filter and can exclude such a way that further filters leave our house showing these halos. We ask our customers in the years 2014 or 2015, a new Baader O-III 1¼ "Narrowband CCD acquired filter (BNr. # 245 8435) have (whether individually or as a set) which caused noticeable halos around bright stars to take (contact us directly kontakt@baader-planetarium.de). Outside Europe, please call the regional / national distributor. Please send us an image that was taken with this filter, as well as a copy of the invoice as proof of purchase that the filter comes from this period. If your filter is concerned, we will get a new, tested filter directly to you as Send end users, so that neither you, the customer, nor our dealers additional freight costs for returned goods arise.

We trust that the defective filter destroy after we have sent to you a new filter (please dispose of the old filter only if you have received the replacement). We have this announcement released as quickly and transparently as possible in order to reach as each buyer before year end. So we hope everyone affected customer a replacement filter is replaced later this year and no further loss of time and effort suffers. We ask our customers and dealers to apologize for this error in production and quality control as well as for the loss of usable clear observation nights. Next year (2016) we have for 50 years made ​​instruments for astronomical work. Each user of Baader products know how much we have tried in all this time, to manufacture products that meet the demands of our customers - that is, do not have a built-in expiration date. It corresponds to this commitment that we eliminate this error, and we assure you that we will do so in the future if we make a mistake. Where people work, mistakes happen - but we stand 100% behind our products.

[FLO]

They posted that message earlier today, when we have the English version we will post it in the Sponsor Section

Steve 

[FLO]

They posted that message earlier today, when we have the English version we will post it in the Sponsor Section

Done

Here it is in full at our website and the announcement here at SGL. 

[Sp@ce_d]

I'm impressed with Baaders response, it's very "human".  Unusual  from companies these days. Well done Thomas

..... I almost feel guilty now...  my Astrodons were delivered this morning...

[Robp]

Indeed a great response from Baader and from our suppliers who were all working to get this issue identified!

[Komet]

Good news ....... but what about the Baader Blue filter that shows the same effect whilst the Red and Green do not?