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I got myself a refractor!

Ohan Smit

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Special K

Special K

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You must demand your money back and have rights as a consumer. It will take effort, but if you keep applying pressure by phone and email, I'm sure you can get refunded or a full replacement. Don't underestimate the power of Twitter and Facebook as tools to "go public" with your complaint! This will apply pressure if they are obstinate.

If they replace it, you should also seek compensation for any extra costs out of pocket like shipping it back to them plus some goodwill from them for it being such a pain and taking up your time.

Shame about that scope. Unanimous opinion here was it will fetch 50% less value in a resale. If they refunded 50% of your sale and let you keep it would you do it? Maybe another option to consider, though it would be best to get a brand spanking new perfect one with a bit of compensation thrown in.

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Ohan Smit

Ohan Smit

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My problem isn't the full refund amount.

I paid through Paypal.

The problem is the 4000ZAR(initial import cost) + 450ZAR(second lens import cost) I spend on this on customs. 

That comes to 20% of the scopes value :/

I sent them a mail, threatened to go public if they do not have a new objective by me in the coming week and in the same breath I said I will file a claim with Paypal for the full amount, after which they can come fetch the OTA from my home premises in South Africa.

I will not make special arrangements anymore to get this OTA to my work premises like I did when I received it.

Lets see what they say by Monday

Ps. I am a little less upset, haha might not seem so , but some sleep helped.

Regards

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nightfisher

nightfisher

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Ohan, i am a little late to this development, it it totally unacceptable, my advice would be to demand a full refund and look at getting a different scope from another supplier, have a look at the skywatcher Esprit  pro

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Dave grim

Dave grim

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Sorry to hear about your troubles with WO I thought they were a reputable company as said above I would be sending them a e- mail stating your consumer rights and demanding all monies back and including any shipping costs and import duties you have paid if they unwilling to pay at least the cost of the scope I would seek legal advice over it most companies will then sort things out if you threaten them with legal things as having to go to court etc looks bad on them , hope you get it sorted quickly I would then go to another manufacturer to get another scope. Don't give up on astronomy though , I know you have a bad taste in your mouth from WO but that is not indicative of the industry as a whole , maybe try not to import next time I don't know what South Africa is like for astronomy dealers though . Good luck Dave

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Uranium235

Uranium235

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Its indeed a pretty shocking turn of events.

In the meantime, have you tried removing that reducer thread wearing a pair of rubber gloves? Its what I use to loosen stuff thats a little stuck or cold-welded. However if its been insterted wrong in the first place and is cross-threaded, then there may be no chance of removing it.

Im surprised the had the cheek to send you a used cell in the first place! This should not happen, especially as WO arent exactly cheap to start off with.

There are a few dealers in SA, here are a couple:

http://telescopeshop.co.za/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_3&sort=4a&page=1

http://shop.technopro.co.za/

But it might be worth getting in touch with your local (or national) astronomy society to find other reputable outlets:

http://assa.saao.ac.za/

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Zhao

Zhao

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Ohan, really sorry to see your suffering.

I think the main problem of your new objective lens is probably not that it can't be installed, but rather the padding ring between lens elements. I see that the padding ring which is used to separate/space different glasses is not placed in a right position. This problem will definitely have an effect on collimation. See arrows I tagged in your image.

Anyway, return it and get your money back.

Zhao

post-40789-0-00352500-1440871359_thumb.j

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Zakalwe

Zakalwe

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This is a terrible, terrible experience. Williams Optics should refund you the full amount and the custom charges that you have incurred.  No ifs, buts or maybes...treating a customer like this is shocking.

if I was you, I'd be getting busy on their Facebbok and YouTube pages...

https://www.facebook.com/pages/William-Optics/464754920382

www.youtube.com/user/woptics168

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Ohan Smit

Ohan Smit

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You must demand your money back and have rights as a consumer. It will take effort, but if you keep applying pressure by phone and email, I'm sure you can get refunded or a full replacement. Don't underestimate the power of Twitter and Facebook as tools to "go public" with your complaint! This will apply pressure if they are obstinate.

If they replace it, you should also seek compensation for any extra costs out of pocket like shipping it back to them plus some goodwill from them for it being such a pain and taking up your time.

Shame about that scope. Unanimous opinion here was it will fetch 50% less value in a resale. If they refunded 50% of your sale and let you keep it would you do it? Maybe another option to consider, though it would be best to get a brand spanking new perfect one with a bit of compensation thrown in.

The regain of the funds is covered via Paypal claim system.

I will pursue avenues of social media after the reply on the two emails I sent them the past 24 hours. 

I would like a new objective that is without any problem whatsoever, easy to fit and that works, I am sure that seems reasonable and rather easy for a optics company even if they need to ship it via a different shipping routine than they are use too.

Sorry to hear about your troubles with WO I thought they were a reputable company as said above I would be sending them a e- mail stating your consumer rights and demanding all monies back and including any shipping costs and import duties you have paid if they unwilling to pay at least the cost of the scope I would seek legal advice over it most companies will then sort things out if you threaten them with legal things as having to go to court etc looks bad on them , hope you get it sorted quickly I would then go to another manufacturer to get another scope. Don't give up on astronomy though , I know you have a bad taste in your mouth from WO but that is not indicative of the industry as a whole , maybe try not to import next time I don't know what South Africa is like for astronomy dealers though . Good luck Dave

I have imported a major amount of astronomical equipment without any problem and I saved a lot of money this way. This is truly my first rotten apple...

I even got and import and export licence to facilitate exports if i sell something via astromart.

Its indeed a pretty shocking turn of events.

In the meantime, have you tried removing that reducer thread wearing a pair of rubber gloves? Its what I use to loosen stuff thats a little stuck or cold-welded. However if its been insterted wrong in the first place and is cross-threaded, then there may be no chance of removing it.

Im surprised the had the cheek to send you a used cell in the first place! This should not happen, especially as WO arent exactly cheap to start off with.

There are a few dealers in SA, here are a couple:

http://telescopeshop.co.za/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_3&sort=4a&page=1

http://shop.technopro.co.za/

But it might be worth getting in touch with your local (or national) astronomy society to find other reputable outlets:

http://assa.saao.ac.za/

I did wear my nitrile gloves and used a microfibre cloth to grip the reducer but neither the OTA reducer nor the objective reducer budges, the reducer on the OTA does not seem to be engineered to be removed...

I've dealt with all these shops but they are all based in Pretoria, I'm in Cape Town... So importing from USA(optcorp) take 2 business days longer than the local shops and its cheaper after import taxes... maybe not so anymore since the ZAR is really bad atm...

I thought buying my first scope internationally would be the same experience I've had with 5000USD worth of other telescope equipment that I've imported, not to even mention my whole computer is watercooled with complete imported goods. Both GPU's and a CPU with Quad and tri radiator. 

Ohan, really sorry to see your suffering.

I think the main problem of your new objective lens is probably not that it can't be installed, but rather the padding ring between lens elements. I see that the padding ring which is used to separate/space different glasses is not placed in a right position. This problem will definitely have an effect on collimation. See arrows I tagged in your image.

Anyway, return it and get your money back.

Zhao

attachicon.gifKPW0QsA.jpg

I have inspected it closely, the reducer seems like the is black paint on the inside of the threads, keeping it firmly in place.

The padding rings seem out of place because of the angle I took the picture across its curved surface, I checked it with a bright source and saw all the markings, all completely aligned inside the cell with the minute markings made by the optician and the padding seems perfect all round within all three cells.

This is a terrible, terrible experience. Williams Optics should refund you the full amount and the custom charges that you have incurred.  No ifs, buts or maybes...treating a customer like this is shocking.

if I was you, I'd be getting busy on their Facebbok and YouTube pages...

https://www.facebook.com/pages/William-Optics/464754920382

www.youtube.com/user/woptics168

I will grant them a reply via email.

I was playing detective and WHOIS'd the WO domain, and got the email addresses of Andy and Dave. They where CC'd in my mails. :computer:

I send them a firm email of my standpoint firstly and secondly mailed again today after some thought and explained my being so very blunt(I did say I would use social media to gather attention) in the previous mail, also why I was so disappointed after being SOOOO excited at the idea of the imaging Refractor doing some work over the weekend(tonight).

BTW, I always wonder why WO – a Chinese (Taiwan) manufacture – asserts its USA origin. Simply because WO is a company registered in the States? Just courious…

No idea. I've also had that thought. 

I am going to ask for some compensation for when I need to get a guiderscope and RDF for this refractor once it is fixed.

Strangely working with the machined tube(without the lens) I've grown strangely fond of it. The workmanship of the OTA as a whole is of the finest quality and I am confident in my silly love affair that it will work out in the end and I will be proud I held on... 

Maybe I am crazy...

Regardless, thank you for the informative and strong inputs of everyone in this thread.

I will post and update by Monday morning(08:00 universal time)

Have a good night.

Johannes

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Ohan Smit

Ohan Smit

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Hi folks.

Easiest to post the reply email I got to explain why this happened and I fully understand the reasoning.

It was a honest mistake. 

Reply from WO.

Dear Johannes.

Thank you for your email and we are terribly sorry for the problem you have attaching the lens.
GT102 with 3.5" focuser telescope has a different tube - the adapter which attaches the focuser is different then that which attaches 2" one and also the side where the lens is attached it has black color ring. 
This is my mistake and i did not know that GT102 tube which we shipped to you is different, so when we ship the replacement lens to you I just took it from GT102 with 2" focuser tube.
The lens we gave to you in new, it is was not used. When you attach the lens to the tube the thread will change from black to silver (thread is painted in black, but when you put the lens on and off few times it will change color - we do put the lens on and off few times, because it has to be tested).
I will write back to you in 2-3 hours after i check if we have this special lens to fit to your tube.
I would like to say sorry again for the troubles caused by this.
Best regards,
Tim

Will let you guys know whats up after I received a reply.

Have a great day

Regards

Ohan

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Ohan Smit

Ohan Smit

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Hi all

New objective should find its way to me within the week  :afro:

Here is the mail I got

 Email
WE checked all the lenses yesterday and as our production manager told me we only made 2 lenses for GT102 with 3.5” focuser special edition tube.
One was sold to you and lens got cracked during the shipping and we still have one more tube left which William wanted to keep for himself.
The second lens is absolutely new, see photos in attachment. The reason William keeps this model for himself is because optically it is very good, but if you look at certain angle and pointed out the light through the lens you can see a very thin polishing mark on the lens surfers. If you normally look at the lens you won’t see that mark, only if you purposely look and direct the table lamp through it.
This is the only lens we have which will fit your tube.

Another solution to resolve this case – you will return the telescope (we will ask FedEx to pick it up) and we will refund the money to you.
Please, let me know which solution do you prefer?
We are sorry for inconveniences caused by this.
Regards
With option #1, I also get a partial refund.
I choose the former option.
:glasses9:
Holding thumbs...
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Special K

Special K

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Sounds like you're making progress!   I was thinking about your situation on the drive in to work and this has probably occurred to you already but if you're left with any spare lens after its all said and done, then put it up for sale.  There are lots of folk who build their own scopes and a lens of that quality (even if less than perfect) would be a boon !  :shocked:

Good luck and sure you'll get some fabulous views through that baby soon! 

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Ohan Smit

Ohan Smit

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Sounds like you're making progress!   I was thinking about your situation on the drive in to work and this has probably occurred to you already but if you're left with any spare lens after its all said and done, then put it up for sale.  There are lots of folk who build their own scopes and a lens of that quality (even if less than perfect) would be a boon !  :shocked:

Good luck and sure you'll get some fabulous views through that baby soon! 

Hi

That would be nice, but they are picking up the objective via courier tomorrow.

What does strike me as odd is when the original chipped objective was to be shipped back, they said they cannot arrange international collections via FedEx and I had to ship it back.... now this time it does not seem to be the case anymore?? rather strange.

Yes I do believe I will get some cracker views very soon and I am once again very excited :D

Thanks for the thought

Regards

Ohan

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Ohan Smit

Ohan Smit

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My hopes are with you!

If this one turns out to be bad/damaged/injured in any way, we should ALL send an email to WO and let them know they just lost a slew - no pun intended - of customers. If it's good-great, please send us a report or three!

Snarl, snap,

Dave

I am sure that I will surely send some reports :D

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