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Atik Infinity


RobertI
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Can't imagine a less compelling feature to work on than YouTube integration. Not everyone needs to be a social media star! The "intelligent histogram" thing sounds interesting, though. Have they mentioned if there will be OSX software?

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Can't imagine a less compelling feature to work on than YouTube integration. Not everyone needs to be a social media star! The "intelligent histogram" thing sounds interesting, though. Have they mentioned if there will be OSX software?

For me the idea of exporting the video session to the Computer is appealing, but I think I would want to edit it to make it 'watchable' before sharing it on YouTube or similar. Mind you, sure exactly what the YouTube integration will entail.

Rob

Edited by RobertI
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I think this is simply - you can record and 'broadcast' your night session.. that way you're really doing it like people are involved.. the main thing is to be able to record your audio (and possibly conference in invited guests).

Good moves by the looks of it. Certainly interesting.. would like to be able to try the software with the 414ex. 

Reminds me I need to finish the garden pier (the cables) before winter sets in..

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I responded twice in their comment box with posts requesting exposure x stacks, scope size and focal ratio.  I also asked if there was any post processing and/or was all the processing done in the capture software for the 3 color images.

First post was removed after several minutes and so I reposted with the same questions and that post stayed up a little longer and it disappeared or was remove.

What gives.

Don

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I responded twice in their comment box with posts requesting exposure x stacks, scope size and focal ratio.  I also asked if there was any post processing and/or was all the processing done in the capture software for the 3 color images.

First post was removed after several minutes and so I reposted with the same questions and that post stayed up a little longer and it disappeared or was remove.

What gives.

Don

Wonder what they've got to hide??

In our game (video/EAA) we need aperture, f/ratio and exposure to judge an image - no short measures please! I'm guessing until proved otherwise these colour shots are closer to AP than video:-)

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Why not just watch on nsn..warts n all.. on nsn its live and you have live interaction with the broadcaster..find it a great way to learn from folk more experienced than myself

Slightly off the main thread.....I like the idea of Live broadcasting but my problem is being available to participate at the appointed time (unless I have misunderstood how broadcasting works, which is entirely possible!). I did manage to watch a solar broadcast once and it was great fun, but I was in my lunch hour at work and had limited time - it would have been nice to have 'edited highlights'! :)  . I like the idea of posting a recorded (and possibly edited) session with audio for others to view afterwards at their leisure - I realise there is no interaction but I think the Atik demo video is a good example of how entertaining a non-live video can be (I'm sure there are plenty of other good examples out there btw).

Rob

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Wonder what they've got to hide??

In our game (video/EAA) we need aperture, f/ratio and exposure to judge an image - no short measures please! I'm guessing until proved otherwise these colour shots are closer to AP than video:-)

Come on.. "Wonder what they've got to hide?" ;)

Perhaps it's an initial demonstration. I'm assuming they'll make all the details for people perform numeric comparisons in the future.

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Atik responded to my questions with the following:

Hello James, Nice to see you on the site. Vince took the images using our C11 Hyperstar on an EQ6. Conditions were very far from idea with a lot of high cloud coming an going. I had already giving up imaging that night so it was great to see some data from Vince. Cheers Steve

Don 3 days ago

It looks like my two posts disappeared so I'll repost.

1. Was any post processing or processing done outside of the camera's software for these 3 color images.

2 What were their exposures x stacks and what scope and focal ratio was used. And any filters.

 

Hello Don, You posts did not disappear. In order that we can avoid spam all messages are approved before posting. 1. Yes the images collected on the night were combined and processed in a popular image processing package. We didn't use darks or flats. 2. See above for the scope. I believe we have an IR block in the imaging train. Images were from approx 5-10 minutes of imaging with 20 second subs. However several of the subs were discarded.

 
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It's interesting to see that the three Infinity color images were taken with 20sec subs and 5-10min of total exposure time, roughly 15 to 30 stacks all taken with a C11@f2.  

The images I took with the cooled Atik414EX color were shot with a C8 at f5 and the camera was fitted with an Idas LPS filter.  My exposures for M27 were 60sec x 5 and for M101 and NGC6992 (part of Eastern Veil) were 180sec x 5.  

There is a 2.5 x difference in focal reduction which amounts to approximately a 6 times factor for exposure.   So if I captured the same images at f2 one would extrapolate where M27 would be using 10sec subs and for M101 and NGC6992 30sec subs with 5 stacks each.    It seems that comparative numbers hold up.  With my images there was no post processing and were captured while broadcasting on NSN, using AstroToaster/DSS and no darks or flats.   And I guess if I reduced my exposures while running at f5 to 20sec. subs I would need 30 stacks or so instead of the 5 I used at the longer exposures.

https://www.flickr.c...57654256664726/

https://www.flickr.c...57654256664726/

https://www.flickr.c...57654256664726/

Don't we all luv to play the numbers game. lol.gif

Don

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For comparison- this was my 414ex with 30sec exposures for over an hour (I forgot as I was looking through a dob lol).. no processing.
post-9952-0-81448000-1427040222_thumb.pn

The lodestar uses a smaller more sensitive chip - that's show by the Sony design specs, however that also poses issues with burn out.

Edited by NickK
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For comparison- this was my 414ex with 30sec exposures for over an hour (I forgot as I was looking through a dob lol).. no processing.

The lodestar uses a smaller more sensitive chip - that's show by the Sony design specs, however that also poses issues with burn out.

The Lodestar uses the 1/2" ICX829 while the 414EX (as well as the Ultrastar and Atik Infinity) use the 2/3" ICX825. These are both from the latest Sony family, and the quantum efficiency for both is ~75%. It is true that the pixels of the bigger chip are smaller so collect less light (6.45 micron instead of 8.6) but there are x4 as many, so with 2x2 binning the bigger chip would be brighter for the same FOV.

The efficiency of the three ICX825 cameras should be the same; the only difference will be lower noise with cooling, different readout speed/noise, the form factor, the software... and the price, though I suppose that will be similar for the uncooled cameras. It's amusing that both Atik and SXCCD showcase long cumulative exposures with their fast readout cameras, when in principle their cooled ICX825 cameras should be better for that. Perhaps it shows that cooling is not really necessary with the new Sony chips, even with fast readout and relatively long exposures. But the main interest of the new cameras is surely for people who don't want (or can't track) long exposures, even if the images won't look quite so pretty :-)

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I posted a couple of 30-120sec captures taken with the SX-825 with TEC off here http://www.cloudynights.com/topic/144516-astro-video-image-gallery/page-123.

I believe that they are representative of what the SX-Ultrastar and the ATIK Infinity will be capable of doing.

More images can be found in my gallery http://stargazerslounge.com/gallery/album/3893-sx-825-real-time/.

All have been taken with TEC off. I used LodestarLive software that is also available for all SX cameras as StarlightLive.

You can compare those 825 captures with the ones in my "Lodestar Widefield" SGL gallery just next to the "SX-825 Real-time" .

Different objects but same equipment and same hands with the same skills.

Also, based on my personal experience, the 825 cameras seem to be one stop slower that their 829 siblings.

But the greater well-depth if the 825 allows more stretching.

With more aggressive stretching one can get away with exposure times that are closer to those of the Lodestar.

But then, of course, stretching eats away some of the image quality advantages of the more expensive sensor. Nothing comes for free...

Clear Skies!

--Dom

Edited by Dom543
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Personally I am getting tired and many others who enjoy this hobby are of the Lodestar obsessed constantly posting on posts that are nothing to do with with Starlight Express cameras. I have recently seen Mallincam being what I would regard as attacked with sarcastic threads elsewhere by the usual suspects. Atik appears to be next.

If you like your brand of camera so be it but slating and comparing cameras you don't even have to test is just posting utter rubbish.

I think I have made my very fair point.

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Hi Folks

Let's just congratulate Atik on what appears to be an exciting new player in the video astronomy market.  Competition in this market will hopefully drive innovation, so the more cameras we have to choose from the better.

With so many variables to consider both in terms of camera settings and processing techniques, comparing one integrating video camera with another except in a side-by-side test or very strictly-controlled testing risks being somewhat meaningless. 

Now, who's going to be the first to do some true side-by-side testing on this new baby? 

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Thanks for the heads up Carl, a very interesting video. Atik seem to be thinking really hard about what people might want and there are some very interesting features. The look and feel of the software is great. It was also entertaining just to listen to knowledgaeble people discussing the object they were observing - a format I hope we will see more of in future. Looking forward the proposed 'live broadcast from Lisbon direct to Youtube'.

Rob

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I also watched the youtube video. Thank you for posting the link.

Atik seems to put quite a bit of effort into explaining what camera assisted observing can offer to people, who are not familiar with this area of astronomy. This is certainly helpful to gain more converts to our branch of the hobby. It also tells me that the main thrust of their marketing strategy is not to convert current users of near-real-time camera assisted observing from other brands of cameras to Atik ones. But rather to pull in people not currently using these tools. Aging visual observers having harder and harder time to climb the ladders to the eyepieces of their Dobs are certainly a promising target group. And those used to spend $600 on a single Ethos would not have difficulty to shell out $1000 for an 825 based camera.

The approaching fall - winter - Christmas season will also help such a push. Climbing that ladder in arctic winds is even less appealing...

So we may be seeing quite a bit of new company on this forum. SGL may have demonstrated a rather wise foresight, when it made "Video Astronomy" into its own category.

Clear Skies!

--Dom

Edited by Dom543
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