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Am I aiming too high?


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Last night was the first clear night in ages. But when I was observing I couldn't find any of the ones that I planned to look at. I planned to look at the veil, dumbell, owl, M94 and M81. Are these too dim for my scope? Also could the wind be the reason why I couldn't find them? I know I'll probably need an OIII for veil but I thought I'd have a pop anyway, I'll be getting an OIII for my birthday in August. Also if these are too hard, any suggestions? Last night I found myself just going back to ring and M13 again.

Thanks

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No I don't think your are Dom.. All reasonable targets.. but it is still quite light at night, the owl and m94 are much better when it's darker... m81 is very achievable with an 8" but you might scan past it without realising at the moment.. just take your time looking..

Nothing wrong with visiting old favourites either, sky conditions mean it's a different experience every time...

Keep looking..

Ta

Fozzie

P's I've not seen the dumbbell, veil or m94 yet either...

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Hi Dom

I often find myself going back the the old favourites when I get frustrated by failing on targets that "I rally should be able to get!".

The Veil needs an OIII filter. Then it will pop nicely into view. Both main parts are well in range of your scope. The Owl is really helped by the OIII as well.

M81/82 will also jump out.,... When you find them. They aren't next to any prominent stars which makes the task more dificult. Start with your widest eyepiece.

Good luck.

Paul

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The dumbbell is very bright, large and obvious (for a nebula anyway) and you will certainly see it when skies are better. Owl is like a faint version of dumbbell and responds well to o iii as does the veil. Galaxies always respond better to darker nights/skies as do most objects.

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The Owl is a difficult one, the first time a looked for it I thought I hadn't found it until is started to fractionally move the scope and noticed the a patch that was ever so slightly less gloomy than the rest and that was M97 (that was in a SW 120 evostar). I did see M97 last night in my 6SE although, again, very difficult to make very much out. Your 200P is certainly capable if seeing, it's more a case of recognising it when it's in the EP. I very much doubt that I could find it by star hopping, last night was using a GoTo and the first time I found it was with setting circles. I have yet to see the "eyes"!

Hope you find it soon, sometimes just finding a difficult target like that can be more satisfying than observing it.

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Well I wish I had seen M13 or the ring!!!

I know how frustrated you are cause I hunted M13 quite a few times with my scope and it was no good. Too much LP though and a very little scope (60mm refractor). I knew it was there, the damned thing wouldn't pop into view...

Anyway I like it when I am getting back on the hunt again, trying to find the object. So good luck next time. Maybe there will be better conditions :)

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If your skies aren't great then you will struggle with the lower surface brightness objects like the Veil and galaxies. Dark skies make more difference than aperture in these.

Depending upon what your horizon is like, you could try M11, the wild duck cluster and globs such as M92, M56, M3, M5 or M15.

M81 and M82 should be relatively easy in your scope, finding them is not always trivial though! There are some good star hops around which really help.

You could also try some doubles. The Double Double in Lyra (Epsilon Lyra) is a great one, Mizar and Alcor is lovely as is Alberio.

Plenty up there, and things will get easier in a month or so as the nights draw in a little. You've got things like M42 to look forward to too!

Keep at it :)

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Whilst noodling about last night, I managed M13. On the other hand, sometimes this hobby is like that. Things you should be able to find remain hidden, things you try on the spur of the moment work

That double-double for instance. I still haven't found that one

Richard

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Whilst noodling about last night, I managed M13. On the other hand, sometimes this hobby is like that. Things you should be able to find remain hidden, things you try on the spur of the moment work

That double-double for instance. I still haven't found that one

Richard

The Double Double is quite easy Richard. If you can find Vega, then you can almost certainly get yourself to it. If you sky is half decent you can see where it is naked eye

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I would suggest to take out a good star altas and use it particularly if it is the first time you observe a specific target. 

To me, very good and cheap are: 

- Sky and Telescope Pocket star atlas

http://www.deepskywatch.com/deepsky-atlas.html 

If your sky is not really dark, your eyes are not fully dark adapted. Therefore, you can also consider a tablet/smartphone and install stellarium in it. I use this combination successfully, particularly if the moon is up or the sky is not enough dark. It is quite handy and portable too. 

Finally, I would start with easy targets, meaning targets with close bright reference stars. M13 can be a bit tricky because the surrounding stars are not very bright and you might have simply missed when pointing the telescope rather than not be able to see it. 

In this and next seasons: 

- M31 is a nice easy target. 

- M15, M2 are pretty globulars and you should see them really well. 

- The Double Cluster deserves attention because it is just gorgeous.

- IC4665 in Ophiuchus is easy to find and really nice! 

- Mel20 in Perseus, another great one.

- M11 is reasonably easy to find

- you could give a try to M8, M16, M17, M20. Nice ones, which will benefit from a filter. Over there in Sagittarius, you can could try M24 and M25 too. Anyway, there are so many targets over there that you will enjoy even if you don't know exactly where you are :)

A little bit more tricky to find, but still very pretty are (to me): M103, C10, M29, M39. :)

Good luck! 

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Just wondering, how do people tell if it's good seeing or not? I know about the twinkling stars thing and the obvious cloud but is there any other method?

Seeing is about the atmosphere stability. If there is no wind or changes in temperature, if focusing/defocusing a bright star shows the airy pattern clearly, if planets can take high magnifications, it means that the seeing is good. 

Clearly, after a thunderstorm, the seeing is pretty bad. 

For the previously mentioned targets, what you need is good transparency, which is about how the sky looks like clear, transparent. If it is and you don't observe from a light polluted area, you can see the dust of the milky way for instance and the background sky is black. 

Light pollution affects transparency, not seeing. Therefore, light pollution affects dso, not the main planets. 

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Seeing and transparency are two different things. You can have good seeing with poor transparency and vice versa.

As you say, twinkling stars indicate poor seeing. A quick look through the scope (provided its cooled etc) at a planet or double star will tell you how stable the atmosphere is. Seeing is most important for high mag targets.

Transparency is key for faint nebulae and galaxies. Provided it is dark, the main indicator would be how faint the dimmest stars are that you can see vs a normal good night. You can often tell anyway because the sky looks a little hazy or milky if the transparency is not good.

Looking at Ursa Minor which has a range of different magnitude stars in it each night will get you familiar with your naked limiting magnitude which is a useful guide.

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Good advice from  pdp10.   Pocket star atlas is one of the best purchases you can make and is ideal to use at the telescope. With good skies all of these objects are well in range - some even through the finder scope.   I use binoculars some times to search for the object  and field stars before narrowing things down in the telescope. 

Mind you, it's not really dark yet !

andrew

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Just looking at the Malham Tarn astro thingy and it says the last quarter moon rise is at 11,does this mean objects like the milky way and most galaxies won't be visible?

It rises in the east, and the brightest part of the Milky Way is to the west, so it's not too bad. Until it gets a higher it shouldn't have too much impact anyway and it's only 54% illuminated. If the skies are basically dark then you should still get good views

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Easiest way to start finding targets is to locate the brightest stars, identify them, then use them to star hop using distance and angles.post-6974-0-47306000-1437289243_thumb.jppost-6974-0-00687800-1437289268_thumb.jp

A red dot finder or Telrad finder will put the stars in your fov. Using both eyes you can move the scope to the target by star hopping. Lots of the most familiar targets can be seen using binoculars to locate first.

I haven't got round to doing a chart star hopping to M11, but it's at the lower point of an equal sided triangle slung between Altair and Rasalhague.

Happy hunting !

Nick.

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Good advice from  pdp10.   Pocket star atlas is one of the best purchases you can make and is ideal to use at the telescope. With good skies all of these objects are well in range - some even through the finder scope.   I use binoculars some times to search for the object  and field stars before narrowing things down in the telescope. 

Mind you, it's not really dark yet !

andrew

In the pocket sky atlas does it show other nebulae and galaxies that are not messier?

Also my northern horizon is always a really bright blue at night, why is this? I know I have the Humber bridge north of my garden about 1.5 miles north but is this enough to keep the sky looking like evening the whole night?

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Yes it list all kinds of objects not just the Messier ones.  I've attached a couple of shots so you can see what the format is like.  The yellow are clusters, red are galaxies. Light pollution makes observing these objects much more difficult though - concentrate on your darkest patch of sky.

andrew

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Dom1961........Its not good, not being able to find objects in the sky, and getting to use the scope at all is a bonus?

I tried to send this image of my sky  last night at 10pm but the android would not allow the upload? Now  I'm on the PC, here is the image.

Even the darkest period of my night just seems like twilight, and by about 2am its almost light again, so this time of Year, the scope is under wraps  :mad:

Night Sky

Don`t despair too much, darker nights are ahead! Along with the colder weather.
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