Takahashi FSQ 106 EDXIII

[ollypenrice]

Sorry for losing contact with this thread having butted in in the first place!

I can understand you both feeling frustrated.

I think it obvious that the three screws on the reducer are naff. On past form Takahashi will sort it out in about thirty years. They don't seem to accept that they make mistakes.

I'm not convinced, on the basis of an experience with a mount, that Optique Unterlinden are technically all that sophisticated and I also wonder if they have much more real contact with Takahashi than any other non Japanese speaker. Anecdotally I hear that Tak are very responsive in Japanese. This may or may not be true. It certainly isn't very useful!

The apparent reversing of the tilt between filters is curious. Is the carousel stable? Are these unmounted or mounted filters? There's more of an opporunity to get unmounted ones in on a tilt.

Some filterwheels have an opportunity to introduce tilt. The Atik ones (of which I have two) are great but their method of allowing the wheel to be rotated independently from the camera involves pulling the attachment up tight on a cone. This has always worked perfectly for me but I can imagine error being possible with this system. Worth a check whatever wheel you have.

Olly

[ChrisNiceButDim]

Hi Olly, no need to apologise. 

I think I'm frustrated that I'm disappointed if that makes sense.

I'd had problems with a previous scope which I bought secondhand and hoped, being new, that this would be plain sailing and just work considering the manufacturer not to mention the outlay.

​The thing is I can immediately see the potential in the optics and I'm sure I'll get it working perfectly eventually, it's frustrating to have to adjust focuser slop and collimation with a scope straight from the factory.

From what I've heard I think you maybe right about Optique Unterlinden. I'm sure Tak Collimate their scopes in Japan to a very high tolerance before sending out but they are re-checked by Optique Unterlinden which may be the weak link. Steve Collingwood who re-collimated my optics has had to do a few Tak's that were supposedly checked by them. 

Yes The reversing tilt was baffling me but then I'm suspicious the mount may have performed a flip at this point which would explain the data if there were some focus slop right?

I'm actually sending the Atik with filterwheel back to Atik to be cleaned and tested just to make sure no sensor tilt is present as well as the filterwheel alignment inside the housing. The Filterwheel is an Atik EFW2. I don't quite follow you about pulling the attachment up tight on the cone? Also I'm not sure of the difference between mounted and unmounted? They are Astronomic 1.25" threaded.

Kind regards

Chris

p.s. Only 30 years hey. The reducer has been out a while so only another 25 or so to wait then.

[Steve 1962]

What motor focuser do you use? Do you use the temperature compensation within SGP? 

Hi Chris

I have a Lakeside Motor focuser which gives me a lovely V curve in SGP provided I allow a fair bit of back lash. I auto focus in steps of 10 with 30 backlash.

I don't use temperature compensation in SGP, but I do set it to autofocus automatically between frames if the temperature changes by 1/2 a degree.

Steve

[ChrisNiceButDim]

Hey Steve,

Oh that's great. You have an identical setup. I have the lakeside too. How did you calculate the backlash as I assume motors and focuser will vary slightly? I managed V curves one session but then the focus graph was all over the shop. Think it was down to a poor physical connection so I've tightened, it all up with a beefier alan key.

What made you decide not to go with the temperature compensation?

Did your setup behave in the end?

Kind regards

Chris

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[Steve 1962]

Hi Chris

I found my settings by trial and error. It's all working well now.

I don't use temperature compensation for two reasons - I can't be bothered to spend the time setting it up, and I don't like the idea of focusing on the fly while imaging (I just worry about image shift while focusing),...and anyway the auto focus routine works well.

Steve

[ChrisNiceButDim]

Ah ok. I'll do a bit of research to see if there's a way to calculate it. Got mine set to 0 (default) at the mo. Cool, I guess if it's not broken. :-)

Chris

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[ollypenrice]

Hi Olly, no need to apologise. 

I think I'm frustrated that I'm disappointed if that makes sense.

I'd had problems with a previous scope which I bought secondhand and hoped, being new, that this would be plain sailing and just work considering the manufacturer not to mention the outlay.

​The thing is I can immediately see the potential in the optics and I'm sure I'll get it working perfectly eventually, it's frustrating to have to adjust focuser slop and collimation with a scope straight from the factory.

From what I've heard I think you maybe right about Optique Unterlinden. I'm sure Tak Collimate their scopes in Japan to a very high tolerance before sending out but they are re-checked by Optique Unterlinden which may be the weak link. Steve Collingwood who re-collimated my optics has had to do a few Tak's that were supposedly checked by them. 

Yes The reversing tilt was baffling me but then I'm suspicious the mount may have performed a flip at this point which would explain the data if there were some focus slop right?

I'm actually sending the Atik with filterwheel back to Atik to be cleaned and tested just to make sure no sensor tilt is present as well as the filterwheel alignment inside the housing. The Filterwheel is an Atik EFW2. I don't quite follow you about pulling the attachment up tight on the cone? Also I'm not sure of the difference between mounted and unmounted? They are Astronomic 1.25" threaded.

Kind regards

Chris

p.s. Only 30 years hey. The reducer has been out a while so only another 25 or so to wait then.

On the EFW2 there is a nice feature on the camera side of the wheel which allows you to leave the wheel in one orientation while rotating the camera to another orientation. This is particularly good for maximising your time for tracking past the meridian because you can put the wheel on the opposite side to first point of mount collision and then turn the camera back to any position you like relative to the wheel. There are two small allen keys radial to the lightpath (oh no, not again!!!  ) which you loosen, then you rotate the camera in the wheel and re-tighten the little radial allen keys. When you tighten them they use a cone technique to pull the camera back to orthogonality. Mine are fine but I suggest that you have a look at them. If they are not happily settled that might be a prime candidate for introducing tilt.

If you have screw in filters ignore my point about unmounted ones. These press in and are retained my slightly overlapping washers. This won't be the case for you.

Olly

[ChrisNiceButDim]

Ahhh, useful indeed. Why would I know such a thing, I only own it. :-) I've sent they whole lot back to Atik but I'll definitely check that when it comes back. If that's all good and I still have tilt it's go to be focuser slop.

Chris

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[ChrisNiceButDim]

Camera back and checked out ok and ready for testing. Thanks for the calculations you did on the other thread Steve 1962 it seems I was about 1.5mm out so what with this correction and the tweaked collimation I hope it should be ok now. :-) Sorry I hope you didn't think I was being Sarcastic ollypenrice. I didn't know about the adjustment screws you mentioned but I've checked them and they'll certainly come in useful. Let the testing begin. :-)

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[ollypenrice]

Camera back and checked out ok and ready for testing. Thanks for the calculations you did on the other thread Steve 1962 it seems I was about 1.5mm out so what with this correction and the tweaked collimation I hope it should be ok now. :-) Sorry I hope you didn't think I was being Sarcastic ollypenrice. I didn't know about the adjustment screws you mentioned but I've checked them and they'll certainly come in useful. Let the testing begin. :-)

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Not at all! It never entered my head. Good luck with the testing.

Olly

[ChrisNiceButDim]

Not at all! It never entered my head. Good luck with the testing.

Olly

Oh good. :-) I sometimes forget things don't always come across as you intend in writing. I just hope we get a couple of clear nights before October as I want it tested and running properly for the DDA star party on the IOW. :-)

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[ChrisNiceButDim]

Oh good. :-) I sometimes forget things don't always come across as you intend in writing. I just hope we get a couple of clear nights before October as I want it tested and running properly for the DDA star party on the IOW. :-)

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Managed to do a little more testing the other night after the scope was re-collimated. Do you think there has been any improvement?

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[buzz]

I found this thread after receiving my new Baby Q, fiddling with the grub screws on the reducer and then wondering; 'What the hell did I do that for?'

I took Olly's advice and decided to square it off. Then I decided to loosen them completely and remove the ring and look at the adjustment 'mechanism'.  I am not convinced this is a tilt adjuster. The design resembles the classic rotation device, with the grubscrews resting on a sloping surface, designed to automatically nestle up against the shoulder when they are tightened. If it were meant to be a tilt adjuster I would have expected an extremely shallow draft angle.

Anyway, I squared it off and when the customary 3 months of cloud pass, I will test my theory

[ollypenrice]

5 hours ago, buzz said:

I found this thread after receiving my new Baby Q, fiddling with the grub screws on the reducer and then wondering; 'What the hell did I do that for?'

I took Olly's advice and decided to square it off. Then I decided to loosen them completely and remove the ring and look at the adjustment 'mechanism'.  I am not convinced this is a tilt adjuster. The design resembles the classic rotation device, with the grubscrews resting on a sloping surface, designed to automatically nestle up against the shoulder when they are tightened. If it were meant to be a tilt adjuster I would have expected an extremely shallow draft angle.

Anyway, I squared it off and when the customary 3 months of cloud pass, I will test my theory

I always thought that, if it were meant to be a tilt aduster, it wasn't a very good one! But why would it be a rotation device since the scopes which use the reducer already have rotators? Sometimes Takahashi are impenetrable...

Olly

[kirkster501]

What I did with my FSQ reducer is to remove the ridiculous grub screws and throw them in the bin.  I got some small screws I had kicking about - M3 I think from memory - pressed the reducer down on a table and installed the new screws whilst still pressing down.  Much better.  It is impossible to "adjust" the reducer so it escapes me why TAK even bother with them and don't keep the whole reducer installed in a solid casted body tht keeps perfect orthogonality.

[Herra Kuulapaa]

I'm a bit confused and could use your help.

Anyway, this is the first set I took with my 106ED and reducer:

Small tilt towards the upper left corner and it was visible in the stars.

 

Then last night, I imaged another nebula and that looked like this:

I started to feel quite worried.

But, I also took some test images later that night pointing scope high up in the sky and it looked like this:

Last one is pretty much perfect to me, but other two seems to indicate some bending in the image train - What do you think?

[swag72]

The final one is taken when the scope is looking directly upwards at zenith? And the others are taken when the scope is more horizontal? I would say that if this is the case, you have some classic focuser tilt / slop. When looking upwards the field is fine and this is when there's zero extra weight and tension on the focuser by whay of the camera hanging off the end. I'd be looking at all the grub screws etc when the focuser is pointing upwards and tighten from that point

[Herra Kuulapaa]

Last one was pretty much straight up, but the middle one was also high; Ced214 @68 degrees. First one was @34 degrees.

I've noticed there is some play with Captain's wheel when it's not fully tight.

[Herra Kuulapaa]

Corners are not that good:

 

Even though it looks ok in small size:

CED214

[kirkster501]

Hi all,

This is the thread where I modified the reducer.  It was way out until I performed this [very simple and five minute] modification.