Frustration....

[Tzitzis]

Hi everyone! I'm starting this topic because I wanted to share with all of you here in the SGL an experience I had last week. 

So the local astronomy club here in Patras (Greece) had an "astronight" (if you can call it that way) in the central plaza of the city (lol). Things you can see at nght: Saturn, Jupiter, Venus and the moon (duh). It was clouded so we couldn't see anything. 

Anyway I'm not a member of the club so I asked about it and they told me that I had to pay in order to get membership. I asked if the money was for the astroparties in the mountains and they said that they would all pay again in order to go camping and stargaze. I then asked if I could join them in any astroparty in the mountains without being member -as I have telescope and a tent- paying my fair share of the travel cost by car. They wouldn't let me join them saying that I'm not a member, that they do these astronights (as it's only one night in a free camping site) only for their members (they are like 20 of them for crying out loud). 

OK. The membership wasn't that much money... But I do not have it either way. I need to work in order to complete my studies away from home. I got my scope as a present and I only wanted to join in order to have someone with the same interst as me and to go in astronights in the mountains. So I couldn't get it, why pay a memberhip since anyone has a scope and they all pay to cover the travelling costs of the astronights? 

Anyway, I was a bit frustrated after talking to 3 different members of them and hearing the same things. But there is more. The younger members of them talked with an attitude like they were so special and so cool, like they were freaking Kings and I was a peasant. The whole thing averted me from trying further and I now conclude; Here in Greece we only have 6 astronomy clubs, few astronomers. I think most of them are in astronomy clubs. But what's with the attitude? If we are few we must bring more new people to the hobby! I cannot understand! Is it like that in England or the USA? And do you have to pay to be a member? I'm sorry if this is an uninteresting post but I got really frustrated and I would like your opinion guys.    

Thanks for your patience!    

[xtreemchaos]

i know where your coming from mate,ive met loads people like that over the past 30 years or so,people like that are uselly in there own little world,i would not worry about it"its there loss not yours". clear skys..charl..

[Tomjo59]

Hi Tzitzis,

It's something you occasionally come across with clubs or societies, in all sorts of interest areas. I must say I've never encountered those attitudes in an astronomical club or society, but I used to do a lot of scuba diving, and I've certainly seen it in dive clubs.

Some people seem to think that if they have been a member a long time, they 'own' the club, and resent newcomers impinging on their territory, threatening their 'status'.

Don't let it get to you - just enjoy observing the universe, either alone or in another group; the universe doesn't belong to them!

Tom.

[Tinker1947]

Start your own club, free membership, and split the costs of any travelling, it will fill up pretty quick........

[L8-Nite]

Since there appear to be others with the same feelings about the club as you, why not get their phone numbers and get together for some informal observing sessions.

[damnut]

hi Tzitzis,

Sounds like one club I went to. It felt like they were ok and did not want any new members. It was restricted to 50 so  tough luck.!!

Find a local club they will  be far friendlier, but we have clubs like that one here

[xtreemchaos]

yer Tinker1947 thats a cool idea, Tzitzis start your own club.

[Tzitzis]

Well there are no other clubs here xD.

Thanks for the replies... I don't know anyone hating this club. And generally it's so rare to come across an enthusiast. 

But I will just try to get other guys to go to plan starnights freely as tinker said.

[Tzitzis]

Well I don't know so much to start a club and the local club will destroy me xD

[ronin]

That is how some clubs are, they seem to drift down a path and most of what you say I recognise.

What will eventually occurs is the place tears itself apart.

Strange but it can be the most unexpected clubs that turn out like that.

Unfortunately as you have 6 clubs in Greece I doubt there is another within easy distance.

Usually we pay to be a member, and usually events are member orientated.

What the one in Cambridge does is if there is a charge, say £2, for the member then a non-member gets charged £4.

So members get something and non-members are welcome as they put more into the club funds.

Equally the Cambridge Club is working with the University and they have a policy of things being available to the public.

Works well as the University are fulfilling the "open to the public" aspect, the clubs gets a bit more funds, and interested people.

So the situation is slightly different there.

I suspect many get going initially with the wrong approach. Consider the club could have started with say 6 or 8 people that decided "Lets start a club for ourselves."

"ourselves" means "Our club", and how they see a club being.

At least someone spoke to you. I visited a club, advertising itself and asking for interested people to come along, so I went along. Not a single word was spoken to me from when I turned up until I left, about 15 minutes apart.

Simple answer is forget it, complete your studies. They come higher up the priority scale.

I suppose there is no way of determining if there are other interested people around Athens to meet up with and go observing?

[ronin]

See there are 2 clubs in/around Athens.

hellas-astro.gr and astromania.org.gr

The second one reads as if it is fairly ameniable to people, however I still suspect there will be a membership cost.

Second one I find amusing, they have an English version of the siite, except for the biuttons to move to other sections, they are still in the Greek alphabet.

The Patras club is too far, but being at/on a university they tend to have a different approach as clubs using their facilities usually have a different criteria. One aspect of a university club is you can never be sure who you are talking to. So pointing out how brilliant you are and so how dumb the rest of the human race can get you finding the person you are talking with is top of their field and up for a nobel prize.

Maybe more then 6 clubs, try this lot:

http://astrogreece.blogspot.co.uk/

[Tzitzis]

I currently study in Patras. When I finish my studies will go back to Athens. 

The Patras club was the club I talked about. They are like you said oriented in such "open public" aspect with the University (they had solar scopes on the day of the eclipse in March in the University Campus). 

Patras is a city(300.000 people) but I haven't found any other who likes astronomy and stargazing in the university. 

[xtreemchaos]

can you stick a card up somewhere asking for like minded people to get intouch ,like where you study ect.

[Tzitzis]

hmmmm. Sounds good

[pevsfreedom]

Biggest club here has a membership fee but every event they do is open to the public. I go sometimes just to hang out, I don't particularly like it much because I just end up looking at Saturn or Jupiter for 4 hours while 100 random strangers move the scope around a lot and wonder what they're looking at. Prefer doing it by myself and hunting for tricky DSO's, but nobody wants to look at those. 

[Tzitzis]

Well to tell you the truth I only want them for the travelling cause I have no car or company. Even if I had a car I wouldn't go alone in the freaking mountains...

Here I can't see anything with this LP...      

[brantuk]

Yes some clubs can be a bit cliquey and elitist - but they are few and far between, and most astronomers I've come across are friendly welcoming folks. Rather than start a formal club - advertise for anyone interested in getting together for a regular observing session and sharing travel costs and observing site fees.

Make it all as informal and friendly as possible and welcome any interest from the general public. Try and get use of a regular site (may need a little phoning around) and I'm sure you'll be surprised at the response. There may be more amateur astronomers around than you realise.

[carastro]

I have to say that most astro clubs charge a membership fee, this is because they have regular meetings and need to hire a hall, and take out public liability insurance in case of an incident at a public event. 

We pay to go to camp sites for dark skies, but only because the camp site charges.

Well to tell you the truth I only want them for the travelling cause I have no car or company.

To be honest, if you're going camping with all your camping kit and telescope, there is rarely any room in the car for some-one else let alone their astro kit as well.  

The company I can understand.  They also don't sound very friendly, so maybe their company is not want you want or need anyway.  

You'd probably be best trying to find some friends to go with you, if they are interested in astronomy even better.

Carole