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vdb

First Light D810A, dead of the CCD?

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Little provocative I admit, and those who do NB will disagree, but my feeling is there is a second coming of DSLR's in astro world ...

But with only 1.5 hours of data ...

From a severe LP zone,

D810A: 29x3min subs, Filter: IDAS D1

Telescope: Star 71

Mount: AZEQ5

No calibration has been done, no noise reduction 

The processing of these subs was remarkably easy, even with the IDAS filter, in the past with my canon it really was a battle to get color's to my taste.

17972008113_e506415474_b.jpgNGC7000 by Yves Van den Broek, on Flickr

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Superb! and apparantly the D810a can be used for ordinary daylight photography too without any trouble. I read somewhere that the color cast was less than the difference in color rendering going from nikon to zeiss lenses.

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May give Canon a kick up the rear to come out with a proper astro DSLR hopefully and start a bit of competition.

Dave

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WOW thats amazing,thank you for your hard work.all the best charl.

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To quote Spike Millgan (which is always a good thing to do), 'Does this mean the end of the horse-drawn Zeppelin???  :eek: '

So, yes, that's remarkably good. (Have you any idea how hard I found it to write that? Yes of course you have, that's why you emailed me to look at this thread.  :grin: ) Very good indeed, especially for 90 minutes. Now the NAN is a big bright Ha target so we'll be wanting to see Simeis 142 before we throw our proper CCD cameras away. 

No, seriously, that's looking truly promising. What I really want to know is when we'll be seeing these chips, free from a Bayer matrix and in a nice cooled astro camera.

Olly

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Thanks Olly,

I agree the NaN is "easy" but the objects you are asking are a no go at my LP site so it needs to wait till I go on holiday ...

But the Camera shows lots of promise ... but we need more images before giving out final judgement. I was just stirring up debate ;-)

/Yves

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Nice image but I am afraid that I have to quote Mark Twain who said " the reports of my death have been exaggerated " in relation to CCDs.

A.G

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And at only £3000  :eek:  :eek:  :eek: . Think I'll stick with ccd :)

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And at only £3000  :eek:  :eek:  :eek: . Think I'll stick with ccd :)

Care to share which full frame at 36 MP you can buy for less?

Thanks,

Yves

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is this the quin version of the 71 as the blue looks good? nice flat field too, id be interested to see a calibrated version.

OSC coming of age is long overdue its about time it had some loving.

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Care to share which full frame at 36 MP you can buy for less?

Thanks,

Yves

You seem a bit miffed by the fact that I have an opinion.

I've just re-read my post 3 times and am still at a lose as to where I mentioned full frame? Oh, thats because I didn't but seeing as you mentioned it, I can get a 35mm format cooled Atik11000 for just 275 more and its actually not got that annoying bayer matrix, something you might appreciate if you are living in a light polluted area. 

If you don't want people to post their opinions, don't post threads like this

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You seem a bit miffed by the fact that I have an opinion.

I've just re-read my post 3 times and am still at a lose as to where I mentioned full frame? Oh, thats because I didn't but seeing as you mentioned it, I can get a 35mm format cooled Atik11000 for just 275 more and its actually not got that annoying bayer matrix, something you might appreciate if you are living in a light polluted area. 

If you don't want people to post their opinions, don't post threads like this

The reason I made this remark is that at least one should compare the same chip size I can find cheaper dslr's that beat ccd and vice versa, but at FF it's really difficult, comparing a chip that has been around for a decade and still is expensive and lacks resolution for wide field imaging (though that's another debate and 11MP is probably enough anyway)

Is that Atik with filterwheel and Astrodon filters ;-), just kidding, I guess you missed my second word of the first line. 

And I do appreciate everyones opinion, I hope you appreciate mine as well.

/Yves

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Great image -- but at nearly twice the price of the Atik 383l+ mono. in fact it cost about the same as the Atik 383l+ and the efw2 with the baader 36mm unmounted N-B filters and  LRGB.

but good debate.

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Great image -- but at nearly twice the price of the Atik 383l+ mono. in fact it cost about the same as the Atik 383l+ and the efw2 with the baader 36mm unmounted N-B filters and  LRGB.

but good debate.

Correct, and a fine camera it is, I happen to have one,

but I can't take that one on holiday and us it to take daytime pictures of my family,

and with the bad weather at home I end up always one color short ...

For reference if I would have used the Atik I would have to do a 4 pane mosaic .... RGB ... would have taken at leat 10 hours to get to the same level of noise. (forget the tedious processing, I like that when I have the time)

I do agree that one can build a cheaper system with smaller size ccd and it has the advantage of NB, I have such a set but it frustrates me that I need so much time and work to acquire those images.

I really hope Nikon will bring out that patented idea of cooling the camera via handgrip add-on;

http://petapixel.com/2012/10/19/nikon-patent-shows-camera-attachment-that-blows-air-into-the-tripod-mount/ 

/Yves

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Interesting camera- it would be curious  to see how it performs in a fast /ultra fast Newtonian in dark sky site?

I like the simplicity of OSC astrophotography and the 'stand alone' operation of DSLR's even more.

Regarding the cost of this camera - it is a 'specialist' DSLR, not really a mass market camera. Probably why it is £650 more than the non AP version!!

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This chip in mono in a cooled camera? Wow!

And it can be used daytime too for wedding snaps.

Probably best to not wear cotton undies.

Question is, why does Nikon now feel the need to address this niche market that they have ignored for years?

I am actually getting tired of Canon dragging their heels in the lower end of the markets and very little in updating specs the past few years, a huge disappointment for me, much so that I am seriously considering moving to Nikon for daytime.

Edited by cathouse42

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Why do people always tend to compare cameras budget-wise instead of sensor-size-wise in the DSLR – CCD debat? I totally agree with Yves; a 36 MP mono CCD + filters truly costs a fortune.

Although I recently acquired a CCD-camera to extend my current imaging gear, I’ll stick to the DSLR for mobile use. Mainly because of the ease of use (quick setup, no need for a laptop).

I held a presentation about the potentials of the current high-end DSLRs as astrocameras at the CEDIC convention in Linz last March. The powerpoint can be downloaded from my website. It includes several DSLR/CCD comparison shots of the same objects. http://www.dutchdeepsky.com/maurice_toet_cedic_2015.pdf

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what about the Canon 60da i don't think Canon are dragging there heals. i don't have one but i have the 1100d i know its not a top end dslr but it works.and the Canon 60Da is £700 ok it is a lower mgpl but wont that mean less noise (joke) just though id stir it up a bit.

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what about the Canon 60da i don't think Canon are dragging there heals. i don't have one but i have the 1100d i know its not a top end dslr but it works.and the Canon 60Da is £700 ok it is a lower mgpl but wont that mean less noise (joke) just though id stir it up a bit.

I was referring to the entry level cameras. Not niche, nor mid upper teirs.

In the entry level, Nikon are creaming Canon on specs now.

Edited by cathouse42

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That's a great result from a light polluted zone.  You must be really pleased to be one of the first owners of this camera.

The first Nikon D810A images are beginning to appear now and they're all looking very good indeed.  By all reports, Nikon have got everything just right on this camera and have leapt ahead of the Canon dedicated astro offering.  The fact that it can be used for normal daytime photography is certainly the icing on the cake.

For me, I reckon the Sony A7S has the edge but the Sony is certainly a very difficult beast to tame.  If Nikon took the same sensor I'm sure they would have done a proper job of it!

However you look at it, this is an exciting time for DSLR/Mirrorless cameras - especially the full frame ones.

Mark

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That's a great result from a light polluted zone.  You must be really pleased to be one of the first owners of this camera.

The first Nikon D810A images are beginning to appear now and they're all looking very good indeed.  By all reports, Nikon have got everything just right on this camera and have leapt ahead of the Canon dedicated astro offering.  The fact that it can be used for normal daytime photography is certainly the icing on the cake.

For me, I reckon the Sony A7S has the edge but the Sony is certainly a very difficult beast to tame.  If Nikon took the same sensor I'm sure they would have done a proper job of it!

However you look at it, this is an exciting time for DSLR/Mirrorless cameras - especially the full frame ones.

Mark

I do like the Fuji and Sony's sensors.

I was a Minolta user before Sony took them over.

However, I just don't like the Sony brand but their sensors are nice.

As for mirrorless, no thank you. I just hate those digital viewfinders, they hurt my eyes and give me headaches.

Edited by cathouse42

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Why it costs more is hard to know, but they did some extra development, for one, specific firmware and special filter that passes 4x Ha and then there is one other big mystery ...

... some people tested the thermal noise compared to d800 and it is half the noise level and also much less then the D810 which uses the same sensor?!

So either they select the sensors with the best specification or they do some magic in firmware,

I think it's a combination.

I'm curious how it will handle hotter summer nights on holiday trips to the south ... because I really don't feel like sticking one of these at the back of my camera;

https://www.astromarket.org/astrofotografie/dslr/ast-x-cool/x-cool---12v-dslr-cooling-system

:evil:  :evil:  :evil:

Edited by vdb

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