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Is astronomy like Marmite ?


spaceboy

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you either love it or you hate it ?

I had a friend of a friend visit us at SGLX as they were showing an interest in the cosmos and wanted to have a look through a scope before deciding on purchasing one for themselves.

It had all came about for this guy while on a holiday where he was sat outside on a warm summers night gazing at the heavens wondering what was what. This wouldn't be too far off the start for most who begin show an interest in astronomy and consider buying a first scope. I remember when I was 12 and an uncle would point out the constellations to me each night we took his dog for a walk. It was always odd for me as I remembered coming home and looking up at the skies again thinking hey this is different here. Maybe this is how the sky works for different areas?  Little did I know at the time the large role LP plays on the night sky and that it's not the sky that changes but the amount that we can see does. All the same this was all it took for me to realise that the sky isn't just a blanket that is wrapped around us a night so we can go to sleep but that it was a vast universe stretching back in to infinity for us to explore.

Sadly it took me what seemed like a similar eternity to get my hands on a respectable scope after first getting myself a £45, 76mm scope on a wibbly wobbly AZ mount with plastic huygen eyepieces. Even though this scope was total tat and the views so miss collimated that it made me dizzy, one look at the moons craters and I was hooked. A couple years later and after a trip to Sherwoods in Birmingham town centre a TAL 200K sat upon an EQ4 and I was finally getting my first WOW views of Saturn and Jupiter from my parents LP back garden.

What gets me though is that I haven't looked back since. Yes I have had breaks from the hobby for a year here and there where other commitments meant a good nights sleep was in order but for the best part I have over the years developed my astro kit (while emptying my savings) to allow me to see the night sky objects I want to explore while trying my hardest to remember catalogue numbers and  where those DSO's are hiding amongst the orange glow.

Yet I have someone who is clearly interested in the night sky, attend what was for me the best star party I have visited, and under some of the best skies we could ask for, offering him views through a modest 12" dob that I might add didn't require constant nudging only to hear him say maybe astronomy isn't for him :huh:

I know there is the whole misconception that what you will see at the eyepiece is going to be the same as the images you see in astronomy magazines or on TV documentaries but even so if your interest isn't aroused by the views under dark skies in a small to mid size dob what chances have you got ?? OK I admit at first glance one open cluster can look almost Identical to another and even for me galaxies have always been at the bottom of my observing list due to the lack of detail they offer up in modest sized instruments but even so you have to take a moment to really appreciate what it is your actually looking at. I can look at a simple star sat all on it's lonesome and appreciate that this spec of light may be hundreds of times the size of our own sun. Or look at Betelgeuse glowing red knowing this star has lived it's life and is now near to a magnificent death which in turn will provide us hopefully!!! or our next generation with a truly amazing show.

I'm beginning to think that it is not an interest in the hobby of astronomy more so that it is a passion in understanding why we are here and where our place is amongst the hustle and bustle of the universe. Sure to anyone else it must appear the same as any other hobby where you first have to work at it to become good. But other than spending time at the eyepiece trying to tease out every last detail our hobby is also restrained by financial and atmospheric boundaries. We will all reach the limit of our kit and skies having see all that it will offer only as a fuzzy blob but still come back on those clear nights to image or visually see the same object over and over again, our enthusiasm never ceasing. 

For me I can't understand why someone who was offered ideal conditions to see deeper into the starry blanket of the night sky would then just dismiss the hobby when I think of my path in to the hobby with a less than ideal Toys'R'Us telescope offering. Hence maybe the hobby of astronomy is like Marmite....you either love it (get it) or hate it (don't get it).

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Bloomin' Vulcans !

Love Marmite myself - except for once Jane (my wife) decided to add it to a Meat Feast Pizza... strange woman. :)

I holiday down n Cornwall when I can afford to. We stay in a great little place with almost no LP. The skies are as black as your hat. The owners of the place we stay in have never even considered to look up! 

Ant

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MMMarmite...along with mmmarmalade, one of the great human inventions.

And drying leaves to add to boiling water...excelsis!

It is about somehow grasping at the immensity involved I think, and the solace and futility in comprehending where we are in all this. About 'seeing' rather than just 'looking'.

I still reckon the Moon is a best chance at invoking interest...to see not just another world, but the mountains, valleys and bright dusty plains of that world. It either hooks your 'soul' (for want of a better word) or..." wow...seen that...nice..." and then move on to other things, other distractions.

It's a bug, like any other I guess. I'll never fully understand trainspotting - logging all those numbers seen. A bit like Messiers, lol.

Plus, astronomy can make your brain hurt. Not the easiest or most accessible amateur interest, which is odd considering all we're doing is looking up at the night sky. 'Swhy I'll always be a stargazer. Bear of little brain!

Now, where's my toast.... :)

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Nice post, Spaceboy.

I think it's like many things in life, one person's meat is another's poison :grin:

On passing, I put the Marmite thing into another category altogether. I mean, there are folk that like instant coffee :shocked:

But seriously, I bet Marmite makes great mosquito repellent when rubbed on the skin :p

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But seriously, I bet Marmite makes great mosquito repellent when rubbed on the skin :p

I think the heat must be getting to you down there Rob ;). An unusual idea, might cut down on reflections from your face, but also might stick you to the eyepiece!

Nick, a great post!

Without trying to appear as a grumpy old man, I do get a little frustrated by the desire for instant gratification and for everything to be easily accessible. I tend to find that the more you work for something, the more satisfaction it gives you when you achieve it.

An example for me would be seeing the supernova in M82 in a 4" scope under pretty poor skies. It was a mighty challenge, and the end result was a tiny pin point of light visible with averted vision. It was hugely satisfying though because I knew where to look, I knew what I was looking at, and over the years I might have got half decent in my observing techniques.

Most people (non astronomers) would have looked and said there was nothing there! Seeing it a week later in my 12" felt like cheating!

I try to encourage people who have not looked through a scope before to take their time, and to focus the scope properly. It is often a real battle to get them to do this which is frustrating as you just know that they are not seeing a sharp view and the chances are they were looking at at moment of poor seeing.

The counter points to your experience Nick are occasions when unexpected opportunities crop up, and the most unlikely of budding astronomers actually get really excited by seeing something they have never experienced before.

My local group observe down at the rugby club, and recently a few of the players came to have a look at the moon and Jupiter. They were genuinely amazed at what they were seeing, and it was great fun watching their reactions and enthusiasm.

On another occasion a father and two sons came over; the older boy was apparently scared to look through incase it changed his whole view of the world (I won't mention the R word!) He was astounded at what he saw, and told us we had changed his life!! Now, I know there's a large amount of tongue in cheek comment there, but I do think there are occasions when expectations are low or non existent, and the views of the Moon, Jupiter or Saturn can really get someone interested.

Stu

p.s. Marmite on toast. Yummy :)

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Unless a newbie sees the wow items (moon/saturn et al) then in all honesty the night sky looks pretty similar through a scope as with your eyes.

I know that very gainy grey smudge is interesting if you know what it is etc but to look at in general terms... its just a grey smudge.

I am not a visual astronomer as I find it underwhelming and I think a lot of newbies do too.

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I like marmite!

I think it's the "Grey smudge thing" that has seduced me to the Dark Arts of imaging, however my first views of the Double Cluster in my old 8" newt did induce a jaw-dropping, fall-off-the-ladder Wow! moment.

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I think "we"(?) Astronomers (like Marmite) are a slightly singular species? :D

But like most "fellow scientists", hard not LIKE - Or at least see some virtue!

Each time I talk to an Astronomer, I hear a (broadly) similar background...

Perhaps it is possible to "manufacture" Astronomers (Watch "Brian Cox"

progs enough times?). But I think there has to be a certain innate thing... ;)

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I fail to understand how folk are not interested in the world around them or up above . I'd ensure that every school has an obsy and someone to show and explore what's up there.

I've seen quite so few folk give up with the first frosty cold calm night. It's a night time thing, some suffering, a lot of patience and a loss of sleep.

Supposed to change your DNA. The sideboards are sprouting, the teeth are getting longer , but I feel better Nnnnoooooooowwwwww !

Marmite, food of the Gods and makes one fine hot drink,

Old Nick.

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I too don't understand why many (most?) people just don't "get it" as far as astronomy is concerned.  It's not just that the rest of the universe is a fascinating place to look at, but we are of it and it is of us.  And I don't think it's restricted to astronomy.  I think of much of the natural world in the same way.  I can take a seed as small as the head of a pin and in less than a year it can grow into a free-standing plant taller than me.  How is that not amazing?  Watch the development of a bird chick from the laying of the egg until the chick can eventually fend for itself.  How can that not be totally enthralling?

Is it that people have lost their sense of wonder?  Or did they never learn it?

Can't stand marmite though.  Even the smell of it is enough to make me queasy.

James

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Marmite, yummmm just don't show me a jaffa cake. I just think this also shows what a tenacious lot we are too. Great thread from the OP down. How does one sneak blumming past a mod? Or only Mod's allowed to use those words Ant.... :grin:

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Interesting thread and replies. But astronomy can't be like Marmite. As the saying goes, you either love it or hate it. But sometimes, you can love AND hate astronomy, sometimes on the same night! Bad seeing, cloudy for weeks on end, etc!!! :wink:

Mark

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For those who do not like marmite try spreading it on your cheese before doing cheese on toast

My wife hates marmite but loves it done this way. She also loves astronomy so its win win for me.

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